I've been DBing for 4 months. I have seen suttle changes in her. 2 months ago she wouldn't even look or talk to me. Now she is talking to me. Pursuing in basic conversations: What are you doing? Where are you going? Can you help me with this? Do you want to watch a movie? Do you want to watch t.v.? Do you want to take the kids to the park?
Don't know if it is manipulation or if she is waking up (a little).
Also their was one specific reason she went to the D lawyer. I pushed her over the edge with a credit card purchase (ironically it was for DB coaching). Our finances is one of her bigger issues with me.
Also their was one specific reason she went to the D lawyer. I pushed her over the edge with a credit card purchase (ironically it was for DB coaching). Our finances is one of her bigger issues with me.
I was going by what you just said, jdopp:
Quote:
The other night she said she talked to a D lawyer and that we need to start talking about moving forward with a D.
This certainly sounds like a threat of divorce to me. Are you saying that you used a credit card to pay for DB counseling for you, and because of THAT she hired an atty? Sorry, but I cry "bullchit" on that one -- she's deflecting.
Like I said, two very different approaches. If you're satisfied with the bones she throws you, and the fact that she just TALKS to you, then by all means go the "friends" route. If you think she's serious about the legal thing, and/or if you want to take a firmer stand and perhaps accelerate your progress -- even though it may get worse at first -- then I would listen to Coach.
Thanks Puppy. The Coach route is a major balls move. Would be the ultimate 180 for me. I've been majorly passive in our relationship (and in life for that matter).
Need to think about this one. Would love some perspective from a WAW...
JD, A divorce is a lawsuit filed against you by your wife. So it's OK for her to threaten to sue you and you do nothing? I think backing down makes you look even more weak and your wife will have less respect for you. It was Puppy that told me about a year ago that there is a reason the divorce papers are called ________ vs __________. How come she can be upset about you working on your M (DB coach) yet she gets a pass on the attorney? Do want you want. But being passive here is not going to lead to a good solution.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I've been DBing for 4 months. I have seen suttle changes in her. 2 months ago she wouldn't even look or talk to me. Now she is talking to me. Pursuing in basic conversations: What are you doing? Where are you going? Can you help me with this? Do you want to watch a movie? Do you want to watch t.v.? Do you want to take the kids to the park?
Don't know if it is manipulation or if she is waking up (a little).
Also their was one specific reason she went to the D lawyer. I pushed her over the edge with a credit card purchase (ironically it was for DB coaching). Our finances is one of her bigger issues with me.
YOu DON"T know if she's being manipulativce or softening up, and neither does nanyone else here.
BuChange usually begins with baby steps that snowball into large change.
You are getting what we call....baby steps.
What are her specific issues with money with you....do you spend too much without talking to her? If so.... don't do it again. Even if it's DB coaching.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Yes that is what she said the other night in MC. She said that I spent a ton of money on some program to help me get better (she doesn't know what it is) and didn't consult with her and that is why she decided to go to the D attorney.
That's right. It's total bs that's her reason for seeking D. And you know $100 or whatever you spent to avoid divorce, D is thousands and thousands of dollars so $100 is chump change. Karen
I'm sorry that I am just now seeing your thread. I feel a little pressure here since you have specifically asked for my help....and I sure don't want to tell you anything to make matters worse. I can tell you from the POV as an almost WAW, and from my "study" and my experience in life. Oh...that made me sound pretty good, didn't it? I hope you know that I never did "walk" but I sure had the mentality of a WAW and kept those feelings in my heart for quite some time. Even though your W hasn't walked away, she does have that mindset and that is how it needs to be handled.
I see every case as somewhat separate and individual and we each have to do what fits who we we are and according to our beliefs, etc. I will tell you up front that I feel that there is more here to your stitch that is being revealed. Either you are not aware of everything about your W, or you have not told everything, yet.
I remember how hard it was when I was staying at home with our babies. It seem almost everything was related to finances. I "get that". However, I have a gut feeling that this is not ALL about finances to your W. Women don't decide to file for a D b/c her H ran the credit card up getting help for himself and/or the M.
Let's back up to when you said you had been DBing for about 4 months. You have mentioned her IC and you mentioned her saying something in the MC session. So when did the two of you start MC and what were the reasons? How long has she been see an IC and can you briefly tell us the reason? I understand you not wanting to reveal certain matters that you may not feel relate to the MR, but I think "everything" relates.
I see so much stress in families these days and I do believe it is a sign of the times in which we live, but there is still answers and solutions out there. The important thing to know right this minute is that it matters that you do not give up on this R. Okay? You have stated that you have mostly been passive, so that is what I want to talk about in this post.
BTW, would you tell us the ages of you & your W and your children, please. As I said, these details help us to see the stitch better.
I can tell you this much for now, by reading what you have said....you sure remind me of how my H used to be. His nature was very passive. People saw him as a good natured, easy-going guy who got along with everyone. I also saw that, but as the years went by.....I saw that one of the reasons he got along with everyone was simply b/c he would not verbally express his opinions/feelings. He sat back and never spoke up or confronted issues. Heck, he wouldn't even reply when I would ask him something....especially if it was related to our R. That would become my source of irration throughout the years.
It is strange that what seem to attract me when I first met him would end up being what I wanted him to change! Since I had come from close parents who talked about everything....and especially their "feelings", I would turn myself inside-out to my H and let him see how I felt about issues...small or great. I was silly enough to think he would do the same in return. Wrong! It seem the more I tried to get him to open up his feelings and "express" them in words.....the more clamed up he became. Many times I would get so mad at him b/c he wouldn't just TALK to me.
My first thought for you would be to do a 180 and not be so shut-mouthed. If in fact, that is the way you are about most things. Perhaps I am not understanding what you've said.) A man can be "passive" and not be quiet, but it seems to go more hand in hand. Now, here's the thing about a lot of women......a passive man can be seen as not having much self-respect. It is vital that your W respect you as a man (first), then she will respect you as her H (second). She "has" to respect you! It is of my opinion that a woman can have "pity", and maybe some other feelings toward a man.....but I don't think she can be truly be in-love with a man she does not respect. She has to "admire" him, which is respect in a different package. I respect a rattlesnake b/c I know about its dangerous nature.....but I do not "adore" them. Big difference, huh? You want your W to respect and adore you. Along with that is a need for sexual attraction. These are three incrediants that is a "must" for a woman in a MR. If there is ONE area lacking, then the R will suffer. That is important to understand.
When my H finallystopped being so passive, it made my respect for him zoom. He did not have to become obnoxious or even change his personality much in order to stop being passive. He only needed to make some changes. In my eyes, it was as if he stepped-up to the bat and showed me that he knew how to be in charge and wear the pants in the family and I couldn't bully him. If a woman can bully a man.....she has no respect for him. That is why you can't affor to continue in your passive ways. And, BTW, a woman will test her H (at some point in the M) to see if he will allow her to bully him. If he doesn't stop it right then.....he can expect a lot of misery.
Perhaps it is the "roles" in which society has grown up seeing the sexes. Men can love passive women b/c most females are natural "responders". However, most men think it is a lot more exciting if the woman is not so passive in the bedroom. Right? I think for him, there is a "place and a time" for the woman to be passive. Women are wired differently in their feelings for the man. He is thought of as the intiator. Society has placed the male as being the one "in charge".....the "protector of his family"....and in the past he was the "breadwinner". Women were actually taught to respect their H's. Don't hear a lot of that anymore. In today's world, men have to "earn" respect, and I think it's a lot harder than it use to be b/c of the role women have taken on. I actually feel sorry for the young generation of men coming up now, b/c some of them are very confused as to how to act around women in society and in their own homes. Tough place to be. So, if you have had an issue with this or thought a different way about the subject.....maybe you need to rethink.
First, be sure that you respect yourself b/c that will show through to your W.
Second, do NOT allow her to bully you or show any form of that behavior in your presence. Make absolutely sure that she NEVER disrespects you in front of anyone else by saying negative things to you or "about" you, making you the butt of a joke, arguing, or picking a fight. Vital that she show respect for you in front of your children....at all times.
Third, do not talk about private issues in public, in front of friends/relatives, or in front of the children. Wait until you are alone with your W.
Fourth, be prepared in what you will say to your W when (b/c she "will") puts you down in her words, actions, or facial expressions. Her attitude shows....just as yours does.
Fifth, be respectful to your W while in front of others. You cannot expect her to treat you like a king if you can't treat her like a queen. Now, here comes the tricky part. When in the privacy of your home....THAT is the time to teach her not to disrespect you. I never know exactly how to say this without concern it will be taken the wrong way. H's have to talk to their W's about things that are not "right" and at times he has to step into that position of authority. I almost cringe in using that word b/c I do not want to paint a picture of a woman being less than a man. I certainly am not doing that! But, men must be in authority over his own home. The old timers use to talk about men who could not control their wife & kids and how they would have a life of hell on earth. I don't like that word "control" b/c it actually boils down to demanding respect and showing authority as the man of the house. How does one do that if he is passive?
I will add this on behalf of the women. A man can only wear the pants in the family, or be the "head" of the family, or whatever term you want to use.......he can only do that b/c the wife ALLOWS him to do that. Yes, that's right. She has a choice of allowing you that place of respect in the home....or she can fight you tooth and nail until the M is over or one of you dies. Some men chose to give up and let the woman rule the roost. I hate to see that when it happens! I want to shake that man and tell him to find his b@lls and man-up. There is an opinion on the board what that "man-up" actually means to some folks, but I hope you know how I mean it here. I always try to make sure that nobody ever thinks I am implying any abuse what-so-ever. You never have to be abusive to get respect!
Okay, so as usual my first post has been long, and the next one will probably be also. Thanks for listening and if I did misunderstand anything, please let me know. But, if this does not apply to your stitch.....maybe somebody else reading it will benefit.
Talk to you later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks Sandi. I really, really respect and appreciate your POV. One of my 180's is self respect for myself. I have shown it a few times recently to her at the right moments.
My Info:
M: 34 W: 34 D: 5 D: 3 Married 10 years
Main issues:
Financial - We have sacrificed a lot for her to stay home with the kids. (Credit card bill is very high).
Grass is greener - She has always felt like she hasn't done enough with her life. She is not happy where she lives, wants to move to another place. This is why she is in IC. She does not feel whole. She feels out of place. Has major depression and anxiety.
Does not respect me - says that I am a good person, but not good strong man or provider, feels like she has 3 kids (me being one of them).
We sweep problems things under the rug. Don't talk them out. Come back later in big arguments and never get resolved.
After the kids were born we stopped being good recreational partners. Did not go out on dates much, excuse was we were always strapped for money. This was the basis of our friendship. Watching movies together (we were both film minors in college).
Sex life was hurt after the children were born as well.
Communication bad - during the last couple of years. I travel a lot, didn't check in with her as much. Real short on the phone, etc.
She now says we were always better friends and that we both deserve better. She just wants me to be a friend and father now. She says she sees a life with her as primary custody parent with the children
180's Listening better Communicating better - Not blowing up during conversations. Working out, getting fit Taking better care of myself (health wise) Helping with housework Backing her up when she corrects the children Don't get on the computer much anymore Don't watch tv much anymore (unless with her) Self Respect for myself.
I think she is baiting me . She keeps saying she is waiting for me to blow up or go into some major depression because she doesn't think that I can sustain having a good outlook on life and take the pressure of a D.
Recently she has mentioned that she doesn't know who I am anymore. She says I seem robotic. (It's just me trying to learn better to communicate through word of mouth and listen to her and not crying at the drop of a hat). She also says that I scare her sometimes when I talk to her. I guess this is more of my confidence showing as well.
I hope you know that I never did "walk" but I sure had the mentality of a WAW and kept those feelings in my heart for quite some time. Even though your W hasn't walked away, she does have that mindset and that is how it needs to be handled.