Mojo. The life force. The essence.

[SmileysPerson]

@Polly:

You hang off every email, NOTE. phone call or text you recieve. You try to work out what it all means, implies

Well, yeah -- when someone "done" who is walking out of my (our) house leaves a note on my computer where it cannot possibly be overlooked and then sends a 1,000 word e-mail that basically rewrites every moment of the past 18 weeks -- yeah, I find that to be curious. But perhaps I'm odd that way.

If you have found 'new directions' ( with breasts) then you are kidding yourself. This is nothing but a rebound relationship designed to help soothe your pain.

Duh! Of course it is! That's the point! And each and every one of these very fine and kind-hearted angels of mercy is 100% aware of that. And these aren't "relationships," friend -- these are events.

Let's get down to cases. If I had an egg for every time I've had sex in the past, say, 3 years -- I still wouldn't have enough eggs for a full carton.

WAW's gone, Jack! And as far as I can tell, she ain't coming back! And if, at some point, she starts thinking maybe sorta possibly she should consider brooding on the possibility of coming back, I'm not sure what my response will be. Whatever it is, it will be based on my needs, goals, desires, and beliefs at that time -- and not on (a) who WAW used to be or (b) my fear that WAW will resent that I had a couple nights' naked fun. This was the woman who was running off for a weekend with Signore Schmuckatelli not 4 days after dropping the Bomb, remember?

And look -- I've been disrespected, shouted at, slapped; I've had a car door slammed on me (physically "on" me); I've had a full bottle of water thrown at my head; I've had holes smashed in my walls; I've been cursed, called every name in the book -- and some I had to look up; I've been told I'm repulsive, disgusting, and the scion of a family of "pure trash;" I've been told I ought to have been dumped 10 years ago; I've been told my actions are tantamount to rape; I've literally been spat upon.

Now there are the saintly among us -- @Coach, for example -- and more power to them. I sincerely respect and admire those who believe themselves to be married until they are not, who believe they will offend their gods if they stray, and so forth. Who put their spew raincoats on and revel in the fact that their WAS's have gone batsh*t-crazy.

But I'm not one of them. Grand Poobah and Head Mo-Fo In Charge of the Loyal Order of Heathen, First Class, Earthly Pleasures Division.

So......yeah. Some female friends offer up some pure, elemental, foundational human connection, each of them knowing full well the situation and the 0% probability that anything "more" than a great night will materialize -- and that's cool with them?

You don't have to call me twice to supper.

Your kids dont need you to have this distraction and neither does the poor woman.

Distraction from what? From them? That's why they're happening on the road. And as far as the "poor" wom(e)n -- not so poor. More or less, "Hey, Smiley's Person old friend, you seem like a guy who needs a rewarding, emotionally safe yet cost-free, friendly roll-in-the-hay -- I'd be happy to oblige."

These are like the Florence Nightingales of the Wild Thing.

Your W would resent you for it.

Oh, gosh. Well....Okay! Why does WAW's possible future resentment matter a Tinker's damn to me? And how do you square that with the argument that

(A) I'm not supposed to be "obsessed" with her, "stuck on" her, or "hanging off" her every word -- right? and (B) Helloooo the House! You'll "eat your hat," right polly, "If Signore smuck even disappeared off your wifes radar for 1 minute"?

So sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. Why would I want to turn down such kind offers as against the seemingly foolish hope -- which, apparently, I'm not supposed to have -- that there's some "there" there with WAW? Eh?

And, by the way, I've been told I'm not married -- it's a mere legal fiction. "Just paperwork," spake the WAW. I mean -- she's got a date next week! And bully for her! Gotta make hay while the sun shines.

Whether you admit it or not, I think we all know here that you are in real pain.

When have I not admitted that? Or were all those comments from various and sundry that said "gosh I sure feel your pain" referring to my bad knees and arthritic hands?

@traveldane: "hope you are well Smiley, on and off the board"

Thanks, td! Better, though, to hope that I'm "good." (Rather out of practice, you might say.)

[orangedog]

Damn straight Smiley!

What are you doing up at this hour anyway?

Heard from a close source that my W listed her status on FB as "Single" yet the papers haven't even been filed. ...and I'm supposed to feel guilt for even thinking about the notion? F that!

Two wrongs aren't supposed to make a right but when the R has been thrown in the trash, the D papers are on the way, and she's already living outside the M, then what am I supposed to think? (Gee, it's only been like six months of 0 for me - I haven't done anything yet but...).

[healthydad]

Damn, SP, I could have said the same thing about what my STBX said, did, accused me of, etc...

And look -- I've been disrespected, shouted at, slapped; I've had a car door slammed on me (physically "on" me); I've had a full bottle of water thrown at my head; I've had holes smashed in my walls; I've been cursed, called every name in the book -- and some I had to look up; I've been told I'm repulsive, disgusting, and the scion of a family of "pure trash;" I've been told I ought to have been dumped 10 years ago; I've been told my actions are tantamount to rape; I've literally been spat upon.

I was hit, yelled at, insulted, kicked, had things thrown at me, insulted in front of my children, called repulsive, disgusting...and on and on...I kept a list for a while, because I thought some of the stuff was actually pretty original and impressive...and through it all, at least for me, I still kept trying to figure out a way to "win" her back - to convince her that I had changed enough for her to want to come home...only after we separated - after she was out of the home - and then I moved into an apartment - did I start to see what was going on...and how the fact that I loved this person said something profound about me...and stuff I needed to work on in a deep and urgent way.

I'm not saying this is the case for you - that's up to you to find out - but it does strike me, again and again on this board, that just as much as our relationships brought the WAS to a point of crisis - it also presented us with that same crisis by proxy...and there was something in that person/process/crisis (which we sometimes call marriage) that compelled us to give ourselves up to that person enough - to make ourselves vulnerable to that person enough - that we knew, deep down inside, on some visceral level, that if we entangled ourselves enough in this person, it would expose our unfinished business.

...which...is exactly what annoyed me most about the Sandra Tsing Loh article...it was entirely devoid of any introspection - of any awareness (or at least admission) of the fact that her actions had their own historicity. Her article made it sound like divorce happens in a happy little vacuum - in which the conflicts between a couple merely indicate that they're incompatible - and she seems unable to fathom the idea that when people fall in love they are lured by something that attracts them to one another - and that this attraction has a history - and so - when that love falters - that history merits some re-inspection - not just revision.

There's a reason we love and marry people that harm us...for me...it was a misdirected attempt to try to understand why I had been abused as a child - by finding an abusive partner who (I see now) is almost identical to my father in her forms of abuse. I think it's also why this was the hardest relationship of my life to leave - even though it was by far the most unhealthy and the only emotionally abusive one I have ever had to endure.

Everything about my marriage was familiar to me in some way - in particular the behavior that I quoted from your post - and that stuff didn't happen to me just after she dropped the bomb...it was part of our years together from the beginning...but I never understood her actions as abusive because I am bigger, stronger, have a deep voice, and people have described me as intense...and she took full advantage of that disposition in me to turn everything onto me and try to make me crumble under the burden of her own, perfectly transferred insecurities. Which is to say...nothing she says or does is about you at all...despite the fact that it affects you so deeply.

I hope you don't mind my going on like this...it happens sometimes...and your post just brought up a lot of stuff that I have been working through for the last 14 months...

And...in the interest of full disclosure...I am in a new relationship now...even though my STBX flat out refuses to discuss the divorce with me...for me, my marriage is over.

[orangedog]

@healthydad

My W is one of those people who was always right. I was always wrong and never good enough. I've spent the past three years trying to dig myself out of depression only to get hit with the bomb (she admitted she was waiting till I could handle it). I'm probably stronger now then I've been in the past years but I don't think she was healthy for me. I'm sorry I don';t have a point here but maybe I should'nt work on it. Maybe I should find someone who better works with me. Comments?

[Gypsy]

Hey Smiley Guy..

This will have to substitute for "Roll in ze hay".

You can do whatever you want... that's the beautiful thing.

You see... anyone can get laid, have a one night stand, fire the big gun. And it's nice that you have so many friends who are willing to take one for the gipper. Is this a way of saying &%*&!!!%?

A respected poster's signature line is "What's best for my children is best for me." Your wife may have a date planned, been busy with a shmuck, living the life she wants. But guess what, Smile Guy.. you're the dad.. you're the emotional rock for your kids. You are home, you are there for your kids.

Consider exploring this with your therapist. After all, if having a dalliance is good idea today, it will still be next week.

*hugs*

[Orich]

Hi Smiley,
I just read your last post here and it brought some feelings I have been trying to suppress to the surface. W and I haven't been intimate going on 3 months now. It is frustrating as hell. I see women at the gym now in tight workout clothes and think to myself, what would be the big deal right now if I hooked up with someone, just to relieve some of the pent up frustration. Admittedly, my sitch isn't the same as yours, however she has on several occasions told me the M is over and she doesn't want to try anymore. I honestly don't know what I would do if the opportunity presented itself. I would like to think that I could resist it. I actually do believe in vows made before God. But W has disregarded those vows, so why should I keep them? It is a struggle to be sure, and your post just made me think about it again.
I just wanted to post because I really understand where you are coming from, and hope to understand my own feelings on the matter.

[antlers]

Hi Smiley,
I honestly don't know what I would do if the opportunity presented itself. I would like to think that I could resist it. I actually do believe in vows made before God. But W has disregarded those vows, so why should I keep them?

If you "actually do believe in vows made before God" then stick to those values...even if your wife has disregarded those vows. Why should you keep them? Because you just stated that you actually do believe in vows made before God! Either you do, or you don't! Don't compromise your values just because your spouse has compromised the vows that she also made. Don't do something that's gonna make you feel worse afterwards. That's just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Orich]

Antlers,
You are right, as I said, I would hope that I could resist. I have those beliefs, but I am in a weakened position. As much as I want to honor my vows, it's like any temptation, I could give in, I am a sinful man. I keep these things in my prayers and continually ask for strength. So far, He has given me much, I have not collapsed into a mass of jelly, I have been able to stand and do what is necessary. In reality, I am sure if that temptation did present itself, through grace I will be able to resist.

[antlers]

Maybe it would help to not put yourself in situations where those type of possibilities might arise. Are you still married? If you are...then don't cheat! Even if your spouse is! You feel bad enough already...don't do something that you'll be sorry for! It might help your ego, but at the expense of 'using' another person, and also at the expense of compromising values that you stated that you have (vows made before God meaning something to you)! This is tough stuff, that's for sure. Do the right thing...always. It will be better for you, and you'll feel better in the long run.

[Orich]

Actually, I haven't been in any situation where the possibility might present itself. I won't go hang out in bars, etc. I only mentioned what I see in the gym because it is a reality. If I am being perfectly honest here, if I was ever in that situation, if I gave in and the time came to actually "perform", I wouldn't be able to do it. Because it isn't her. I really don't think I could be with anyone else right now, even if i had signed D papers in my hand.