Mojo. The life force. The essence.

[Coach]

SP, The times I lost my cool the most was talking about the legal side of this because it revolved around how to split time with the kids and money. Two very emotional issues. Nothing wrong with saying how you feel and what you see as the consequences of this for all parties.
I found out later it scared the Greek as well. At the time I didn't really pick up on that vibe but she admitted that it helped her think thru her choices. Your wife is scared and reacted, you handled it well by calling her on her mind reading.
Sometimes the fangs do come out. Not pretty but it sends a signal. Keep up the good fight.
Strength and Honor.

Coach

[CityGirl]

I am speaking from my own experience here but I feel that the WAS becomes filled with rage when the LBS shows a caring, compassionate and understanding side (as you have been doing) but still takes care of themselves on the legal side.

My H was floored (and angry as hell) that I counter sued him for his affair along with several other counts of cruel and inhumane treatment. But that is how it goes. It wasnt revenge, it wasnt anger it was the legal option that was available to me so I took advantage of it. I didnt do so in some big dramatic way. I quietly filed my paperwork and went about my business.

I feel the WAS thinks becuase you arent sobbing and begging and pleading and appear to be "ok" they feel the legal portion will be smooth. That is not to say it cant be smooth but smooth does not mean you will roll over and not use all legal avenues available to you based on the laws of your state and the situation at hand.

My H and I tried to do a collaborative law divorce and it got us nowhere fast. I refused to use one attny because in my state one attny can only represent one person in the divorce and my H wasnted the representation which would have required me to waive my rights to counsel. LOL! Um, no. The only way I would have agreed to that was if HE waived HIS rights to counsel and he said no, he would not do that. Well, I wont either.

The rush of a new house, new R, new freedom and so on for a WAS ends real quick when they see that yes, the LBS might be approaching the D with grace but they certainly wont be plowed down as far as a settlement goes.

I made it perfectly clear to my H I had no intentions of working w/him on a settlement if that meant him swearing, making excuses, using cliches and other WAS BS or being ugly. And that is the exact reason I have my attny working for me. I am all for productive discussion with a WAS when it comes settlement time but I will not be a punching bag for a series of very poor choices my H made in handling the D.

I am sorry you have had such a rough time.

[dmkdmkdmk]

Smiley,

No words of wisdom, just wanted to say your descriptions of what you are going through with your kids have made me redouble my efforts not to have to tell our kids the same if I can possibly help it.

This! Except that's why my H bailed now - because he'd rather do this when our kids are 1 and NOT EVEN BORN than ten years from now. Like it makes a damn difference in the end.

[The Wifey]

Smiley,

No words of wisdom, just wanted to say your descriptions of what you are going through with your kids have made me redouble my efforts not to have to tell our kids the same if I can possibly help it.

This! Except that's why my H bailed now - because he'd rather do this when our kids are 1 and NOT EVEN BORN than ten years from now. Like it makes a damn difference in the end.

DMK,

You still have time. You are so new to this. Don't lose hope. I mean that, really, despite what H might have said. Just my 2 cents.

[Thinker]

... her "plan" ... was to keep the D secret in her mind while pursuing Signore Schmuckatelli,...

Her friends ... would know. ... She would know.

Of course, I wouldn't know.

She doesn't get how that hurts, either, incidentally. How the idea that she'd let me be ignorant, thinking I was married, would be hurtful to a person -- let alone this Person.

I understand this and feel this myself - completely.

I was confused by it. I tried to understand why the fact that my W had been planning, and might still or again be secretly planning a D and an escape to an OM hurt more than the idea of D itself. It did not make sense to me, and I wrote about it on my thread saying "I am more afraid of betrayal than I am of D"

And then something in "Passionate Marriage" helped me to understand that my hurt was real and why it hurt so much. I am paraphrasing here, but Schnarch pointed out that when one spouse lies and keeps plans or actions (or an A) secret, then they are taking away the other spouses freedom and right to think, feel and act. In effect, they are saying "I am important and have the right to do things that are in my interest, but you are not important and do not have the same rights or even the right to react to what I am doing"

And this is why, when my W spews and says "I don't love you" and "I want to leave" and "I am not attracted to you" it doesn't really hurt. I even got over it when she expressed her feelings for OM. I have accepted that. I realize that she feels that way, and that it is her version of reality, and she has every right to feel it, but that it does not define me. But....

When my W lies to me, when I realized that she had been carrying on an EA with OM for some time without ever even telling me she was unhappy, when I found letters where she talked about her desire / plans to get D'd by the end of the year that were written before we had even started talking about any of this ---- NOW THAT HURT!! It hurt badly.

You are completely right SP. What hurts is the realization that your spouse has so little regard for you that they don't even see you as another person - just a resource to be used for a while during the planning phase, and then a barrier to be manipulated past.

We all have to pick ourselves up after the blow that this realization delivers to our ego's. I know I sure did. I also think this is a barrier that we all have to set - "I matter and you are not going to do that to me!"

I think you're doing great.

[Thinker]

Smiley,

No words of wisdom, just wanted to say your descriptions of what you are going through with your kids have made me redouble my efforts not to have to tell our kids the same if I can possibly help it.

This! Except that's why my H bailed now - because he'd rather do this when our kids are 1 and NOT EVEN BORN than ten years from now. Like it makes a damn difference in the end.

Don't be too concerned about that DMK. I know it hurts, and it is frustrating. My W said the same thing - She doesn't wan't to hurt the kids when they are older and they are really used to having a family, so she thinks we should break it off now while they are still young.

Crazy I know, but it is all part of the script. Your H is looking for any rationalization he can hold onto to justify running now.

[Greek]

Hey SP ~~~
Yours was a FAIR exchange. Do NOT beat yourself up for any emotion you displayed or reaction or even what you said. Look here, the legal side s*cks and and this is one area where the WAS is completely responsible if they are the one who filed first - which Mrs. SP did.

So, she is completely responsible for introducing this fresh hell into the M.

You have no obligation to help her feel better about the sh!t that is now hitting the fan. It is the REALITY of a move SHE made. Do not protect her from it and it sounds like you get that.

Coach played hardball with me legally ~~~ it INFURIATED me, and scared me half to death. Did I think about it ahead of time ~~~ yes, sir. But reality bites.

I think you handled yourself WELL.

Can't wait to see how she processes this.

Cheers ~~~

[Coach]

Coach played hardball with me legally ~~~ it INFURIATED me, and scared me half to death. Did I think about it ahead of time ~~~ yes, sir. But reality bites.

not to rewrite history or anything but INFURIATED is a little tame.

but hey if anger was good then INFURIATED was really good!

Cheers

[dmkdmkdmk]

DMK,

You still have time. You are so new to this. Don't lose hope. I mean that, really, despite what H might have said. Just my 2 cents.

Wifey,

I know... H had a few things to say during MC yesterday that did give me hope... I just have to give him time...

[AlexEN]

Thinker,

I hadn't seen this before, must have gotten a phone call when I was listening to that part of Passionate Marriage on CD while stuck in traffic... But, what you cite here is such a strong emotion the LBS feels... and it, too, is "script"...

A...Schnarch pointed out that when one spouse lies and keeps plans or actions (or an A) secret, then they are taking away the other spouses freedom and right to think, feel and act. In effect, they are saying "I am important and have the right to do things that are in my interest, but you are not important and do not have the same rights or even the right to react to what I am doing"

...What hurts is the realization that your spouse has so little regard for you that they don't even see you as another person - just a resource to be used for a while during the planning phase, and then a barrier to be manipulated past.

...I also think this is a barrier that we all have to set - "I matter and you are not going to do that to me!"

I can so distinctly remember having this feeling that to her, I was merely background noise and an annoyance to put up with, until and while she carried out her secret plans...

I even got the line: "Why do you care if I do whatever I want to do, we're already psycholgically separated."

Your mantra is one that all LBS's have to remember when dealing with that feeling under similar circumstances...

-AlexEN