What you find here are some of the last few posts on the last SmileysPerson thread, but what I've done is re-arranged them a bit for continuity of discussion (rather than by time-posted order).
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@fb2 SP, I "thought" you had a way with words but this has to be about the best thread I've read - and I haven't even read it all. I think Forrest can "think" about some of these "thoughts" and maybe even MWD. BTW see if you can find old thread by "GForce" it may be useful - there was some kind of "power shift" there. With the WAW its often about gains vs. losses.
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@SmileysPerson
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@fb2 SP, I "thought" you had a way with words but this has to be about the best thread I've read
@fb2: Thanks very much for that compliment, but the credit goes to the community -- @aliveandkicking, Forrest Gump, Coach, Greek, Puppy Dog Tails, Thinker, jaguilar, orangedog, mindblank, Gardener, Traveldane, AlexEN, Kalni, pollyanna, Gypsy, DanceQueen, Silver Fox, and anyone else I've overlooked -- whose comments/questions/challenges make the discussion move forward.
I'm just sitting here waving my hands.
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@Thinker
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Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
I'm just sitting here waving my hands.
To quote your post on my thread this morning: "I'm all for credit-where-credit-is-due. Cut yourself a break, dude."
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Originally Posted by: Thinker
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Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
I'm just sitting here waving my hands.
To quote your post on my thread this morning: "I'm all for credit-where-credit-is-due. Cut yourself a break, dude."
Waving my hands like a conductor, bro -- like a conductor! LOL!
A couple more from the sudden end of the last thread:
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@Thinker: Part of GALing is meeting new friends. I feel like I have met some great new friends here - even if we never meet in person.
Fact, Stone. Written in. One each. (Ex-military will get it.)
I had the privilege of meeting a great new friend (? - one hopes) from the DB community in person yesterday. Odd as it was initially -- it must be somewhat like computer dating -- it quickly became just a "normal thing" (for me anyway). Maybe that's how we meet people these days? I don't know. But whatever. I guess there aren't really bowling leagues anymore....
But the Meeting (and I mean that in the verb and not noun sense) was superb. A terrific person. Who knows who Him/Herself is.
And the most recent posting of mine from the last thread:
Dammit! Dam dam dam dam dam dam dam dam dam dam dam dam.
I'm feeling sorry for her. Splart! Gaack!
All that stuff @Greek writes about WAW. It's right!
Poor WAW. She came home from work last night and, though I thought I'd seen her discombobulated, she was stone-cold-discombobulated. With 48 hours or so left in this house, her house, "our" house, the kids' house -- she doesn't know which way is up.
And it's creating serious tension, just as @Coach predicted. I'd grilled some lamb chops for the kids 'n' me, and I'd told her on the phone that there was food left. So I grill up the chop, grill up some asparagus and mushrooms, bake her crescent roll (Pillsbury, dudes -- I'm not that good a guy, LOL), and serve it. And the look on her face is somewhere between Despair and Loathing, as if to say, "Who the hell do you think you are feeding me this tasty food, buster?"
And it just went downhill from there. She's tired of me being supportive. She's tired of me "wanting" her to say things -- she's got nothing to say! She's irritated by me being available! IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THIS!
Yep. Gotta love that Divorce-Busting.
So I'm stepping back. She needs even more space, even more room. And, yes indeed @Greek, as hard as it is for LBS to acknowledge and accept, she too needs time to grieve.
It's very weird, I'll admit. But I've come to the realization that we LBS tend to create caricatures of WAS -- just as they create caricatures of us -- in order to facilitate the process, whatever the Way of the WAS is. We know ourselves to be greater than the sum of our parts; we know that we're better than what our marital failings indicate; we know we're capable of better and more and deeper and richer -- hell, it's why we're working so hard at this thing. So why doesn't WAS see that, s/he says in anguish?
Because they can't see that, at least not while they're in the fog. Who're they going to believe, the Way of the WAS or their lying eyes?
Think about it objectively (and this is something we've discussed in earlier threads of mine) -- decades of research in social-psychology teaches us that, as humans, we hate disconfirming information. We take stuff that doesn't "seem right" and mush and mash and smush and smash it around until it does "seem right" -- where "right" is defined as "matching what we already believe." Each of us knows this just in terms of our politics -- "our" guy is always right, even if he's wrong, because his wrongness is "right."
It seems to me that the tipping point for the lucky few like @Coach/Greek is when WAS acknowledges that the eyes don't lie. When WAS stops fighting the disconfirming information and says to him/herself, "Maybe I was wrong."
But that's a tough row to hoe, sports fans. And WAS needs time and space to hoe that row.
I saw that last night, almost for the first time.
Because I'm Divorce-Busting or Way of Warring (cf, @Gypsy) or whatever-it-is-I'm-doing. And it's messing up the Way of the WAS. So now it's time to sit back. Keep up my GAL (I've sort of plateau'd, so need to re-energize there). I've got to Keep Rolling My Way.
So why doesn't WAS see that, s/he says in anguish?
Because they can't see that, at least not while they're in the fog. Who're they going to believe, the Way of the WAS or their lying eyes?
Think about it objectively (and this is something we've discussed in earlier threads of mine) -- decades of research in social-psychology teaches us that, as humans, we hate disconfirming information. We take stuff that doesn't "seem right" and mush and mash and smush and smash it around until it does "seem right" -- where "right" is defined as "matching what we already believe." Each of us knows this just in terms of our politics -- "our" guy is always right, even if he's wrong, because his wrongness is "right."
You think!!!
I had a MC session yesterday evening in which Mrs. Thinker vehemently blamed our deteriorating R directly on my self improvements and changes... ( My post last night on this session )
When I asked why things were getting more tense between us, my W replied:
"It's because of You! It's all of these changes you are making in yourself! They sicken me! I mean, what, here you have been clueless for 13 years (the amount of time we have known each other) and now all of the sudden you are super aware and superdad who always spends time with his kids and always helps out and... I don't know who this person is and I don't like him! He disgusts me!"
So ... because I am nicer, and do more, and am a better dad ... she is unhappier ... logically
I hear you SP! Give your W room to think. She has to see it for herself.
Last edited by Thinker; 06/24/0901:23 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
It's very weird, I'll admit. But I've come to the realization that we LBS tend to create caricatures of WAS -- just as they create caricatures of us -- in order to facilitate the process, whatever the Way of the WAS is. We know ourselves to be greater than the sum of our parts; we know that we're better than what our marital failings indicate; we know we're capable of better and more and deeper and richer -- hell, it's why we're working so hard at this thing. So why doesn't WAS see that, s/he says in anguish?
Because they can't see that, at least not while they're in the fog. Who're they going to believe, the Way of the WAS or their lying eyes?
Smiley, this is SO true, and a really insightful observation. I'm guilty of this myself, and -- like ANY prejudice -- while it may be HELPFUL 90% of the time, it can HOLD YOU BACK the other 10%. Waywards really do follow a basic "script," and studying that script can help you, but you need to be really careful that it doesn't turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy, too.
In 48 hours, give or take a couple of minutes, I need to take the children -- D6 and S9 -- out so that WAW's movers can come in the house and carry her away.
So what's my play? Do I have them say "goodbye" to her? How much of a scene do I permit to go on? Do I simply hustle them out the door, waving a "cheerie-bye!"? It seems disrespectful to them and their feelings not to let them confront it four-square, yet my instincts are to protect them at all costs.
For my part, in terms of the bilateral interaction, the challenge will simply be to control my emotional response -- sadly or madly -- and to hold my tongue.
But I'm less concerned -- much less -- about myself than I am with them.
Morning... Being there. And it sucked big time cause H moved all his things in front of them, while they were literally on the floor crying. He moved in 2-3 hours, didnt take anything else but his clothes. It was a bad choice from both our parts but we were both so emotional... I was... crying FOR my kids not him leaving. I would suggest to do everything to keep them away from dramamatic "scenes". I wish we had done that. I wish I had been stronger and in control because they looked up to ME for strength and I let them down. Their reactions was 60% based on how I reacted and 40% on what was going on. At least that day (and later as I realised). Kids proccess things differently. Try to keep calm and focused because they will feel scraed if they see you "loosing it". I dont know how to forgive me and him for that horrible morning my son still remembers clearly.
Protect them from drama. It's not disrespect to take them away. Maybe use that time to talk to them about mom's move, dont ignore the facts or pretend all is well. But keep them out of the eye of the hurricane. K
#1 objective is GUARD THEIR HEARTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. As much as this particular change is about Mr. and Mrs. SP...it is going to be a DEFINING moment in their LIVES. So... that's how I would frame my moves.
Suggestions: *In kid-speak, as clearly as you can, explain what will physically happen (movers coming, stuff going out of the door, where it's going, WHERE THEIR THINGS WILL BE). Keep it simple, SP. Then let them ask what they want to know beyond what you present. Keep answers simple and only answer what they ask. If you don't know, say "I don't know." Keep eye contact with your babies. They'll be watching for signs in YOUR eyes.
*I know you wouldn't...but just in case the moments get the best of you, DO NOT SMEAR MRS. SP at all to her children. This matters to THEM. My parents are divorced - my father has NEVER said an unkind word about my mother. My mother never misses an opp. to slam him. Guess who I respect more.
*Take them away from the house while this whole operation is going on - start to finish. Do something fun, meaningful.
*Bring something home from the get-a-away so there is diversion/distraction when you walk in the door the first time. Something that needs to be eaten quickly, a puppy or kitten, a bird or turtle, something to plug in and do immediately ~~~ ease them into the space with a distraction.
Just suggestions. None of this will make it easier for you. But the goal is to help the little SPs - as you know.
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
In 48 hours, give or take a couple of minutes, I need to take the children -- D6 and S9 -- out so that WAW's movers can come in the house and carry her away.
So what's my play? Do I have them say "goodbye" to her? How much of a scene do I permit to go on? Do I simply hustle them out the door, waving a "cheerie-bye!"? It seems disrespectful to them and their feelings not to let them confront it four-square, yet my instincts are to protect them at all costs.
For my part, in terms of the bilateral interaction, the challenge will simply be to control my emotional response -- sadly or madly -- and to hold my tongue.
But I'm less concerned -- much less -- about myself than I am with them.
So, to those who have been there: What's my play?
SP,
Even though I'm normally "Mr. Consequences" around here, I would try to minimize this for them as much as possible. A very casual "we'll see you later at your new place!" and hustle them off.
Then just be extra open/sensitive to them if they want to talk about it later.
