W is having Affair -- may leave soon -- thread 2

[Puppy Dog Tails]

If people can handle the emotions tied to it, and be able to still control their feelings and GAL like they need to, I always advise not to kick the other person out. The more time you are able to show the WAS your changes, the easier and faster it will be for them to believe it and want to come back.

He's not going to be able to control his feelings when his wife announces to him that she's flying to another city to hook up with her boyfriend. It's emasculating, it's emotionally abusive, and she's losing respect (and therefore, LOVE) for him every day that he tolerates it, in my opinion.

I do generally agree that if healthy boundaries can be maintained, that it's best to remain together, so that the LBS can live out their positive changes in front of the cheating spouse. But it has to be a question of DEGREE. At SOME point, it's not healthy.

Puppy

[S.T. _I Made It!]

puppy, I understand your opinion.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

SMM, what is going on now? what was your decision and what are you doing in regards to yourself?

[SavingMyMarriage]

I apologize for not writing earlier. I was going through a lot and yes, emotionally, it was very difficult. I will admit that I am very sentimental, but I am trying to work on myself. I do believe in most of DB’s philosophy, but I will say that I don’t feel comfortable with some of the stuff – especially anything that is manipulating or could be borderline manipulating.
What am I doing for myself? I’ve bought a lot of books – 5 Love Languages (Men’s Edition), Love and Respect, Winning you Wife Back Before it’s too Late (Gary Smalley), and Passionate Marriage (David Schnarch). So far I’m half way done with Love and Respect and I’ve started the Winning Your Wife Back. I’ve also started to go to church and I’ve been talking to someone there about our marriage issues (and my wife’s infidelity). My circle of friends aren’t that big right now, so I’ve reached out to some old friends (actually mutual friends of my wife and mine), so that I can better GAL and stay healthy. I did not kick my W out of the house.
I’ve spoken to a DB coach many times and still have two prepaid sessions left, but I haven’t spoken to her since mid-May. I also spoke to some other marriage coaches (Lee Baucom, Fred Talisman, and Mort Fertel). I intend to stay with one coach though so I can stay on track. There are quite a few similarities with DB and the three above. My DB coach didn’t really recommend me to detach, which was good since I didn’t feel comfortable with it. She did recommend to not contact my wife as often (via phone for example), and I followed that recommendation.

Whether right or wrong, I was trying to figure out what went wrong that led my wife to tell me on 5/8 that she didn’t want to be in the R anymore. in Jan 2009, my wife said that she didn’t know if we would end up together (she had the affair back in Jul-Oct 2008, broke it off and then started up again in May 2009 or earlier I think). At end of Mar 2009, per DB coach, I stopped saying ILY, physical contact, holding hands, etc. It got her attn the next day and she hugged me and said she didn’t know what to do about us. I continued to stop doing those things and then on 5/8 she gave me the news. In June, when she went to Wash DC away with the OM, during our conversation she said that I was ignoring her for the past few months. It wasn’t my intention, but it might’ve looked that way. 5/8 might have happened regardless, but there seems to be something that triggered it.

I learned the hard way that I CANNOT change her mind by talking her out of it. I have to stay strong and GAL!!! I’m better at controlling my emotions now (especially after another let down – you’ll see below). Due to cost cutting initiatives at the Company I work for, I learned that I would be getting laid off (last day is 8/30) – I should be fine since I’ll receive severance. Plus, we’re doing fine financially. On July 4th, she spent some time with me, my brother’s family, and her parents at my mom’s house for a BBQ and we went to a fireworks display (good weekend). We also went to the movies often in June and July.
Don’t be too hard on me here, since I did make some big multiple mistakes… A few weeks ago she wanted some alone time to study and catch up on her cross-stitching, so she said she was staying at a hotel nearby where she worked. I asked if the OM would be visiting her and she said probably… I forgot what I said, but I said something to the effect that I’m sorry that you feel this way… I didn’t say too much after that. Last Sat I asked if she wanted to go on a Chocolate Tour in the city. She said no, so I suggested Sunday, and she said maybe. On Sat night, she asked what we were doing for dinner. She suggested this bar/restaurant that I wanted to check out before so we rode our bikes there. We were having a good time, had a couple of beers and were watching a baseball game. Before we left, I saw that she was heavily involved texting someone and it was really annoying. This was a mistake, but I asked what she was doing and she said she was texting OM. I said I would appreciate that you wouldn’t do that, especially in front of me and she basically ignored me. I asked her again and she said she likes reading his texts but then stopped. On the way home I asked if she wanted to rent a movie and she said no. I said maybe another time and she said that I can rent a movie by myself. I said I would rather see a movie with you. She replied that she was leaving soon so that I should get used to it.

On Sunday, I asked about the Choc tour since she said maybe on Sat and she asked, “Are you in a world of denial?” and then said “We need to talk”. Later she said she does not want to be in this R anymore and that she’ll be moving out soon. She said she has a two week window between summer school and the fall (I think in a couple of weeks). She also said that she is going away from Wed nt (tonight) to Sun with OM. I didn’t ask where. I asked why she wanted to move out and she said that we both need to move on. I asked why now? She said if she waited, she would be delaying the inevitable. I wasn’t ready for this conversation and I think I really messed up. I asked to go to counseling (she said no). I said the following: When people have affairs, they are sometimes in this “trance” since the “in love” feeling is very powerful… lots of chemicals, etc. and it’s hard to see the true picture. Don’t you want to at least see a coach who has lots of experience in this and can answer some questions and perhaps help you understand why this is happening? If you drop OM, perhaps you and I could give it an honest try (for a year or whatever). She said she has plans… she wants a child and doesn’t have a year. I said what if you didn’t ever meet the OM? She said we would probably be together still, but we would have an avg marriage. She agreed that our marriage for the last two/three years wasn’t terrible – it was a 5/10. She said her R with OM is very high (a 10) and believes that she will be happy all the time with him. I disagreed since marriages are built on happiness; they’re built on commitment and ones vows. She said she has no faith (isn’t sure) that we would work things out because we (or I) say we will work on thing and never follow through (for example, I or we said we would decorate our house and still haven’t hung many pictures on the wall…we planned on moving and never really took action). She then said that doesn’t give me much faith that we would work on our M.
I don’t know if I handled this right, but when she left this morning for work, she had her bag packed and before she got in her car I said, “If you decide to change your mind and not go away, I would like to spend time with you this weekend. It’s never too late. You have a choice. If you do decide to go away, I will miss you.” She said she’ll miss me too. She gave me a hug and I kissed her on the cheek. While at work, she was sending me lots of job ideas via E-mail, we had a short conversation about job opportunities. She sent the following E-mail to me: It was titled “Keep your Chin Up”.

My name-
I just wanted you to know that I'm really sorry for everything that's going on. I hate that I am adding to your stress right now, but in spite of everything I am proud of how you are carrying on. You continue to meet your work expectations and are even going above and beyond, as you always do with that respect. I know you’re in a rough place, and I am trying at least to help you out in that area. I fully support you and your search for a job, and I’m happy to help you with reviewing things or even practicing for interviews. The right job will come along-don’t be discouraged. Any company would be lucky to have you.
I admire your ability to talk with people and ask them for assistance in your search-your networking skills are bound to pay off soon!

Anyway-I just wanted to try and give you some encouragement.

My wife’s name

She returned a call that I made to her while she was on the way to the airport. When I said hello she was very quiet and sounded scared or afraid to talk. I told her that I left work early to avoid traffic. I then said “I would still love to spend time with you this weekend. You have a choice.” I think she said ‘I know”. There was silence then and then she asked if I was still there. I said yes. She said she will talk to me later and I asked her to call if she had an opportunity over the weekend. This was probably wrong and it was for selfish reasons since I somehow wanted to disturb the two over the weekend.
As you will see, I have a lot to work on – especially myself and how I communicate to my W. I know I took a lot of steps backwards, and my situation appears much worse now, but I guess I had to learn the hard way. The coaches have told me that I have to wait until the euphoric “in love” feeling wears off. Any suggestions or thoughts? Thanks for reading this long post.

[MrBond]

Whoa I don't think I have to mention how many times you backslid.

First things first. Get your self-respect back. She's sleeping with another man. I would say you need to get her out ASAP. Lay a boundary. She won't love what she doesn't respect and right now with her rubbing your nose in her A shows that she doesn't respect you at all.

Stop pursuing. Stop sounding needy.

If it was me, I would have nicely packed her stuff out and let her stay with the OM. She doesn't want to be with you, so why wait?

Get your confidence back. Detach and get out and do things for you. When she emails you, don't even acknowledge them.

You can still salvage this.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Any suggestions or thoughts? ...

My suggestion and thought is that you follow all of the suggestions and thoughts everyone gave you earlier on this thread. You ignored them all, continued to supplicate and pursue your wife, and what's happening is just more of the same, only worse.

You need to grow a set, if not for THIS marriage, then for your own future.

Puppy

[sgctxok]

Saving,

At least one of the counselor's you mentioned (Baucom) is not who he says he is and is not recommended by this site.

Please be careful who you seek advice from and waste money on in that regard.

Your DB coach has credentials behind him/her: the appropriate education in the form of a university degree, extensive practice experience before coming to DB, DB training, a commitment to marriage and a long term marriage him/herself. A successful track record.

When you get advice all over the place, and have a hard time sifting through it, you can't be focused. And therefore your own efforts are all over the place, and your results will be all over the place.

Pick something. stick with it a little while. Monitor results. If it works, stay with it. If it doesn't THEN do something different. THEN repeat.


Pursuing your wife is working AGAINST you per your own notes here. Don't do that.

[SavingMyMarriage]

I did learn the hard way. I started to go to church and I'm trying to get into a support group.

My biggest problem is pursuing and that needs to stop.

Anyway, I just learned that my W told my mother-in-law about the trip this weekend. What happened was that my MIL called my W last night and heard some noise in the background and asked where she was. My W said at the airport. My MIL asked where we (my W and I) were going? My W said that she wasn't going with me, but she was going out West. My MIL put 2 and 2 together and told her to come home as they needed to talk. My W still went on the trip, but supposedly they'll talk on Sunday or next week.

My W has said that I'm a good, nice, kind person, but she doesn't love me "that" way anymore and she sees us only as "friends" and wants to remain good friends. My response was something like, I'm sorry you feel that way. I am fighting for our marriage. Don't know if that was appropriate, but I kept it short.

I am pretty sure she will be having a talk with me next week about moving out. When she says this I will say something to the effect that I'm sorry she feels the way she does about us and that she wants to move out. I want to ensure I handle it RIGHT this time, so I think that's appropriate. This time I won't try talking her out of it or "pursue" her. I'm learning the hard way that saying less is more here and it has a greater impact.

If there is anything else worth saying here that would give her something to think about or has a greater impact, I would appreciate feedback. I'll be reading a lot and doing something good for me this weekend... basically focusing on "ME".

[sgctxok]

Not saying something will have a greater impact. She knows your point of view. It won't likely change what she does this weekend, but it will be a start in changing her impression of you.

[SavingMyMarriage]

My wife called and she is on her way home after the long weekend. I didn't call her while she was away. She just called (about 8:30 PM), saying that she was on her way home. She said that she didn't want to catch me off guard. I felt like saying something cruel, but I held back. I asked how her flight was and she said "OK". I tried to keep it short by saying "Okay, I see you in a few minutes then.".

She then said, "How are you? What did you do this weekend?" I told her what I did and she said, "Oh good", as if she was concerned since she was with OM the last four days. Is this common? Of course I won't talk about the R. Not too speculate, but it appears she now feels guilty by the fact that she wants to know if my wknd was good... I tried to give her the impression that I was doing fine. In reality, it really was a decent wknd...