Divorce looming #14

[25yearsmlc]

Why are either of you "on pins and needles"? B/C YOU CHOOSE TO BE..really pretty silly if you think about it. These women filed for div and have not retracted it. Now you are wondering what it means if it does not go thru at the earliest poss legal moment. First off, it may and you simply don't know yet. You'll get something in the mail or not. Don't know your state or its' rules for uncontested divorces as most are. Or It may take a payment to their L they don't have right now, OR they may simply want to wait until their tax refund or bonus comes in or they don't care about it as it's a formality OR it may be that Jesus spoke to them. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THAT so let it go....please.

If God told them to stop the div AND they listened, I bet THEY'D TELL YOU...so please...DB 101 GAL and stop just STOP thinking about these women for MORE than 24 hours. How about fixating on YOUR lives NOW, Your futures or YOUR children's? Be Here NOW. Make that the mantra. Enjoy the present b/c it is what you know you have.

Don't you see how little YOU bring to the table for a woman when ALL you have is your "need" and "want"? That is not love my friends, that is need and want and they are very different things. As PMA told you Kev, SO MANY TIMES....the real questions for you, which you continue to ignore, are WHY YOU'D WANT SOMEONE LIKE HER? She did not treat you well. AT ALL. Where's your self respect and where is YOUR SELF LOVE?

Please GET C, and read some of the great books suggested. I suggested Blue Like Jazz (of course there are tons of other self help books out there too,) b/c it points out the spiritual sides to your mess. Part of it is that you do not really love yourself or respect yourself. Kev, you don't seem able to see how that inability to have self respect and self love, means you do not bring anything to the table for a woman to Love or Respect in you.....and probably prevents you from truly loving another person b/c your needs are so paramount.
And by being SO needy and clingy, which you must know by now, is NOT attractive to your w (or most women) but you still do it. SO, you need help to stop doing it and what we say to you is CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH so that's why we keep harping on how you need more help. Get to a C and see about some meds too, and dont' get hurt or insulted by that suggestion. I did both those things when my dad died, and it DID make a difference, a huge one.

I can't speak for all women. But Kev, you HAVE a letter your w wrote about her life and about YOU, and in it she said you were like another child to her, and a functioning alcoholic. So what are you doing to change that image? Going to church (for her, or for you?) and not drinking are good steps but I still see most of your choices as tactics, not changes. They seem to be "I want to feel better NOW so I'll join this group, and not be so lonely UNTIL if and when she comes back" but if she came back, you'd quit these groups, right? SO these ARE tactics, to get her back--NOT CHANGES, AND they are not working --so what are you left with if none of the changes are real?

Change YOU K4D, change YOU. Otherwise your self imposed "limbo land" will continue and or become your self imposed hell on earth. Oh, and don't forget, remember, you are a father of children who Need a father. That's YOU. Not "needy K4D, but a "Dad" there for his daughters...no one else will ever have THAT job, just you. You are lucky for that.

(( j ))

[K4D]

I have to ask W for our carenow discount card so she will already know what I am going for. She already knows that I was on meds temporarily before.

It doesn't make me look like a very strong and confident person in front of her.

But I could use some meds and C.

Yesterday she asked me how I was doing with being alone. I said I am making the best of it. I am staying active and busy. The she told me that she does want me to be ok. I said I'm good and no need to worry about me.

Why would she ask those questions. I'm supposed to believe she really cares?

Whatever.

Kevin

[K4D]

I know that I need meds. I have to get out of this depressed state of mind and feeling like I need her to be happy.

Why do I want someone like her yall keep asking? Because she wasn't ever like this until the last year. So I feel like this is not who she really is. Thia has to be a phase. No I don't like how she is currently acting. But how long can she keep this up for? Plus, I do believe that M is for life.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

why do you need HER for c and meds? Pay for them out of pocket if you think it looks so weak. But I think she'll know about the c MAYBE but you have something called medical privacy laws and I seriously doubt she's allowed to know you are on meds. Plus you don't drinnk anymore which she does so dont' think she can throw rocks when she lives in a glass house.

So get on her plan IF what you are saying you need to do b/c you don't want to pay for it out of pocket. well CHOOSE. Either you're on her plan and she'll know you are going to c and I think THAT SHE'LL SEE THAT AS A GOOD THING.... and you do not have to tell her ANYTHING BY LAW, AND SHE CANNOT FIND OUT ABOUT THE MEDS UNLESS SHE WANTS TO SAY YOU ARE DANGEROUS TO THE KIDS AND THEN DENY YOU CUSTODY SO THEN YOU CAN BRING UP ALL HER DRINKING BUT RECALL SHE WANTS YOU TO HAVE THE KIDS SOMETIMES SO SHE CAN BE FREE....RIGHT?
SHE DRINKS A LOT AND PLUS, COURTS ARE USED TO LBS'ers going to c's and getting on meds. Happens IN MOST DIVORCES....and they don't lose the kids over it.

SO CHOOSE KEVIN...CHOOSE HOW YOU'LL GET THE HELP - BUT GET IT ANY WAY YOU CAN. And of course she can care about you and also NOT want to be M to you. She's not an evil monster. SHe cares about how the father of her kids is doing and she feels pity for you (whch is not love, it's close to contempt but pity is what she seems to feel or some basic human decent compassion....that does NOT confuse me at all...AT ALL....)

hope this helps you stay clear....

(( j ))

[25yearsmlc]

I know that I need meds. I have to get out of this depressed state of mind and feeling like I need her to be happy.
CLEARLY....in fact she is the least likely person now, to help YOU be happy.

Why do I want someone like her yall keep asking? Because she wasn't ever like this until the last year. So I feel like this is not who she really is. Thia has to be a phase. No I don't like how she is currently acting. But how long can she keep this up for? Plus, I do believe that M is for life.

Kevin

She is what she says and does. We are all what we say and do. Regardless of intent or sense of humor, or ambitions, if I kill someone on purpose I am a killer. If your wife yells and demeans you and disrespects you EVEN if she has "good reason" in her mind, she's a yelling demeaning disrespectful wife to you. Pretty clear...Will she change? Who knows? She sees no reason to change, least of all for you. I don't think she'll change in the next 2 or 3 years. If ever. Her family is strange and enabling and you two have had an odd history so....well, I'm not God...but moving on...
Sure kev, Marriage may be for life in your religion but now the state's say it does not have to be. Marriage is now a legal matter, not just a religious one (and for some, it's ONLY a legal matter....). While it certainly takes two to make a M work, SOMETIMES it only takes one to end it. And she has taken action to end it AND spoken words indicating certainty on her part that she wants it to end and has for some time and is sending NO signals to the contrary, IMO. Not enough time has passed for her to believe in your changes anyhow and besides, have you really changed? You said she isn't really "this way" and that is not the real her...as if she could NOT have changed so.

Well YOU have changed from the man you were when she married you, correct? I mean, isn't that the truth, about how you became complacent, drank too much, let her take on too much etc etc...... You changed and then her feelings and behavior changed....[b]SO if you changed into that "not so great" guy...why is it impossible to believe SHE HAS CHANGED TOO? B/C she obviously absolutely HAS.[/b] The issue now is whether YOU'LL CHANGE INTO THE MAN YOU WERE MEANT TO BECOME, whom you admit never quite being in the past....and THEN we'll see what God has in mind for you....


Changing to get her back, is NOT changing...it's lying. And manipulative and YOU are NOT THAT TYPE OF MAN, correct? So you are becoming the man mentioned a few lines ago, and with help from THE MAN ABOVE, you'll become a man only a fool would leave. But you DO have to change yourself, and leave the results up to God. It is not complicated. I know it is not easy but it IS SIMPLE KEV....it really is simple.

Stay on track, you are getting on with your life!! "DISCOMFORT IS OKAY..." remember?

(( j ))

[K4D]

Thanks 25,

This past couple of days has been interesting. She has been really nice all of a sudden. She made conversation with me last night again. I told her I was going to bed. She said ok, good night and put a smily face on it. She hasn't done that in almost a year.

Then today I picked up the kids and took them to dinner since she was getting home a little late. D7 said she wanted mommy to pick them up since they will be back with me next week. I said I'm sorry, but mommy was working a little late. D11 was quiet. She said she was tired from swimming all day.

We got back to the house and W arrived. She was real nice. She asked me if she needed to get her tires changed. I looked them over and told her the front ones will need to be changed pretty soon but it doesn't have to be this weekend. She thanked me for looking at them. Then we went into the house. She went through all the mail with me and thanked me for chipping into the kids summer program. I agreed to pay more than I was going to for the kids sake. She was grateful.

Then she just started talking and talking to me. She asked what I had been up to and asked what groups I was part of so she made sure not to join them. I was like ok. So I told her I joined a DFW singles group. She said thats great and how am I liking things. I said how am I liking things? She said as far as doing new things and meeting people. I said I am enjoying trying some things I haven't tried before. She said thats great. Then she proceeded to tell me about this 55 year old guy that she has been hanging out with that she is going to take the kids out on a boat with him and take them bike riding with him. He hooked her up with a bike and is hooking D11 up with one also. Apparently he is married with grown kids and he works one tower over from her. They go to starbucks alot and have great theological discussions she says. She said its just her and the girls and his W is busy alot so they hang out.

Anyways, she kept on talking and was as friendly as could be. I wasn't sure why. I finally told her I needed to leave. I also got the discount card from her to the doctor. I looked her bike over and told her she needed to replace the chain because it was rusted and one of the brakes on it. She thanked me and said she hadn't realized that. I said I just wanted to make sure she is taken care of. She thanked me again and told me to have a good time tonite. I said thanks and left.

I'm not sure what is going on and why she is so nice now and talking to me. She still doesn't want to do anything with me and I haven't asked her to. We also talked about the kids and D11 has an awards show Tuesday night that we both just found out about. She said she wants me to finish moving my money out of her bank account this weekend so she knows how much she has. I said I will.

What is going on here? Why is she so chatty these past few days and so interested in how things are going for me yet wanting to make sure we don't end up in the same groups?

Its really confusing to have her be this way but yet still not want me around.

Anyways, I went to a friends place after and then we went to a meetup group and a place I haven't been to before. It was loud there and hard to hear much. I met a couple of people and then left and came home. I guess the nightlife just isn't really my scene. Its hard for me to hear there with partial hearing loss. I just didn't have that great of a time.

Tomorrow I am meeting a friend for lunch, then I have my kids for the afternoon and then I guess I will go to another meetup group. Sunday morning I am going to go to church and go to a singles class for ages 30 to 35. I think I will go to the doctor Sunday afternoon after getting my oil changed.

I have to admit it is getting a bit lonely for me. I'm trying to get out and meet people, but I guess I just haven't found my niche yet.

Yes, I guess if I changed years back, why wouldn't she. And if I can make real changes back to a great guy, maybe years down the road I can attract her again and we can have a new beginning again.

D11 is texting me some tonite. She is a pretty cool kid.

Kevin

[K4D]

This morning I woke up and thought I had to be at work. I thought it was Friday again. I looked at my watch and it said 8am. I freaked out and ran and jumped in the shower and then about midway realized it was Saturday. Ugg... I'm at a loss sometimes.

Last night I slept on the couch in the living room in front of the TV. I started thinking what do I need a second bedroom for? I don't really like sleeping in there. The bed isn't that comfortable. I wonder if it would be worth getting a big one bedroom apartment for cheaper when this 7 months is up and just giving the girls the bedroom and me sleeping on the couch.

I wonder what today holds in store.

Kevin

[K4D]

I hate this new set up on this website. Its more difficult to follow and find things.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

Kev,

Speaking of not liking this new site...I can't find a post I sent you yesterday....wacky. Shoot...Um, to sort of sum up, don't read into the wife's "kindness" at all. I mean, it is NOT a bad sign but it's not anything, yet. You two are having normal conversations like adults. Yay. You might get served div papers this week, or not. Maybe she wants to lessen the blow, or or maybe she needs another sum of money to pay the L to finalize, or maybe she just wants to have a civil R with you so you two can try to co-parent these girls together and for now, that's the best case scenario you should hope for.

Why else could she be kind to you? Guilt? Olive branch? She may feel your neediness levels are not so high so she can MAYBE feel comfortable around you, so that she's "allowed" to be kind w/o fearing you'll start up with the pressure and pursuit again, so dont' force her into being a "beeotch", just so YOU don't get confused by her half decent behavior or courtesy. Make sense?

It's progress in that you guys can speak to each other and not fight, So use THAT as a goal instead of having the ONLY goal being "Get Back Together...." that's NOT DBing. Goal setting related to the R is about small steps like these, and then building on them. Set a goal of, for instance, "in the next month, have ONE conversation with w that does NOT solely relate to the kids...." and see if that can happen. OR "Go a week without a single critisism from either parent"..... Of course, DO NOT BRING UP R TALK...(I think you have that one down pat, but just a reminder)....so, those are the types of goals you can achieve that get you towards the overall goal, & you can achieve them and feel good about, and maybe build on, to lay a foundation for friendship with your w, then respect, co-parenting, etc and who knows where that will lead? But if your goal is an "All or nothing" GET HER BACK type thing, you'll set yourself up for feeling like a failure all the time, you'll get frustrated or sad or angry and that just creates a whole cycle of feeling bad and then NOT projecting an appealing image, etc.

So the easier you are to be around, the better. And neediness and clingyness ARE NOT easy for her to be around and she has outright said so....so back off as you have been.

The detaching, to the extent you have done it, and "getting on your own two feet w/o NEEDING W" has helped your R with her already. SO keep it up and don't start telling her about how much you miss her, or what YOU WISH or NEED or WANT or the "good old days and what you once had",
b/c 1) it will NOT help you reach ANY goal, and 2) she does NOT see it that way....AT ALL....Right or wrong, her "camera lens" about the past does not match yours. And Besides, that M IS over. If you are ever to reconcile, and stay that way, you know you'd have to start over fresh so why keep looking back?

You are not in limboland, (except legally, and that will end soon in all likelihood.) As I said, She may need another payment to her L to finalize it and maybe she sees no rush since you are out of the house and not in her face and she feels she has some breathing room (Which is what I'm hoping....).

So She asked about the other groups probably to avoid awkward moments running into each other and between you two, and that was smart AND considerate. Also it points out that YOU are indeed going to be back on the market soon, sooo... if she likes shopping...you'll be on the market too..(BTW, Now is not the time to remind her that you will always see yourself as m to her. Trust me on that. You don't HAVE to date, but you also don't HAVE to tell her you are sitting around waiting for her THAT will STOP ALL PROGRESS FOREVER in my opinion....(please see that you are making progress by NOT telling her those things and by getting on your own two feet).

You really do have to BE AND ACT "as if" b/c you are resigned to the divorce (everyone in the world knows you don't want the divorce , so NO, she won't think you actually are glad about it....but YOU DO ACCEPT what is happening b/c it is reality even though you wish it weren't so and here's why you must show her that you accept the end Kev...),

b/c you AGREE that the UNhealthy dynamics in the old M MUST END and THAT IS HOW SHE MUST SEE YOU AS PERCEIVING ALL THIS B/C ONLY THEN COULD SHE EVER BELIEVE M TO YOU IN THE FUTURE, COULD BE BETTER OR DIFFERENT. BY YOU CONSTANTLY SAYING "BUT OUR M WAS [i]SO GOOD" & I LOVED YOU SO MUCH AND WE WERE SOOOO HAPPY[/i]", YOU AFFIRM HER BELIEF THAT YOU ARE THE SAME OLD NEEDY & DELUSIONAL GUY, AND SHE DOES NOT WANT THAT SAME GUY...hope you get what I mean.


Instead, we want her seeing YOU working ON YOU and IMPROVING for REAL and FOREVER...Why? B/C 1) it is healthy behavior, and it is morally sound behavior, and 2) your kids desparately need it from YOU, and 3) it is probably the only chance you have of ever convincing her to give you guys another shot.

If she's dating more OM....(I think that it is a great sign if there are more than one OM, b/c then we know they are NOT "soulmates" blah blah blah and that she is shopping and if you do the DB things, she might see YOU ARE IN THE MARKET TOO and starting to look pretty darn good.....) IN TIME

IF you stay on track and make the changes you and God make, then we know that you have 2 things NO OTHER MAN on the "market" has....

1) Your children. You are the ONLY MAN on earth who cares as much about those little girls as she does. That's a biggie...

2) GOOD HISTORY TOGETHER AS A FAMILY...good memories will resurface AND NEW GOOD ONES will be created b/c from this day forward, the courtesy you both show each other, and the "'friendly" conversations will lead to friendship and the foundation for more, which I wrote about above.

Don't freak out if you get the papers. As I said elsewhere (or in the post to you that disappeared??) maybe for you two to reconcile it does require a divorce. Maybe that's the only way she can see that the changes you make/made are real (cuz why would you still NOT drink, and stll act so much more mature and fatherly to the girls AFTER the divorce, if those changes are not real?

I mean, if you do get divorced, YET you are still "the new and improved Kevin, it will PROVE to her that YOU ARE THE NEW AND IMPROVED KEVIN AND THAT ONLY A FOOL WOULD LEAVE A MAN LIKE YOU.... you will have countered ALL the negatives her family said, and she came to believe (and some of them were true anyhow and needed changing soooo) and what are they going to say or think then? (Okay they probably won't think THEY were "wrong", but they MAY think you have changed b/c you have/are and in the end, they want what's best for their grandkids and if you become the "right guy" why would they oppose it? Your mil is already sending out olive branches so keep that in mind. Standing tall and being a good dad IS working....and for now, that's gotta be good enough for you, b/c God takes care of all that other stuff).

Hope you understand what I'm trying to say. The dang post I wrote was long (even for ME and that is saying A LOT) so sorry if I am repeating myself OR doing the opposite...yikes..

Oh, PS BOOKS---aside from "Blue Like Jazz" (the faith book I mentioned and how not to misuse our faith and how to see others as God does, etc) and the million other books I and others have suggested, well YES I have YET ANOTHER BUT THIS ONE YOUR KIDS CAN ALSO READ and then you can talk about it and bond and all that. It's a series by Rick Riordan (who also does a series like John Grisham novels, but that is not the one I'm referring to...obviously).

Anyhow Riordan wrote a series of children's books that my d11 read and then d20 read on the trip and also liked AND MY H read them and now they are all discussing them. THey read them all on the trip so I guess I need to read them also but here's the kicker Kev... In the books, (a series and the first of the series is "Percy Jackson and The LIghtning Thief" (or maybe just "the Lightning Thief") and the main character is a kid (Percy Jackson) and he has some powers from Zeus, and or other characters from mythology (this will also help your d11 in school as the first book was assigned reading) AND child psychologists have long said that in Div the kids feel really powerless....so in this series the KIDS have powers, and good triumphs, etc. which might make thtem even more appealing to your d's , PLUS YOU can talk to the girls about what is happening in the book or what might happen next and my h read them WITH INTEREST and said they were entertaining to him. He discusses the books on the phone with d11 every time they talk. So, just another idea for a "family book" club thingy. And so what if your w reads them too? (Do NOT suggest that!!) I'm just saying if she does, good. If not, then it's your own daddy/daughter thing. Win win...

Have a good weekend.
(( j ))

[antlers]

Hi Kevin.

You are fortunate to have 25 layin' it on you the way she does! I'm sure lots of us get benefit from reading her posts to you. It seems like 'space and time' are paramount in these situations. And we 'do the work' while that time passes, and the space makes it easier for us to detatch.