but my WAW had a long distance A that seems to be over, or nearly over now. The whole thing is weird. She travelled to see OM, then she started being kind and respectful to me, but still with walls up. In an emotional breakdown, she told me "I don't want a divorce, I don't want to divorce you, look how we are together, if we only had that other thing." The other thing she was referring to was the lack of intimacy she lamented in our marriage, something I'm determined to remedy. That was a couple months ago. She travelled again to see OM, but shortly after her return I heard they "broke up", although she is still talking to him several times per week. Recently she opened up briefly again, and told me she has been hating me for what I did to our marriage, but that she likes how I've been changing, and that she misses me. Then she asked if we could just take it a day at a time.
She is being very friendly toward me, and regularly inviting me to spend time with her and the kids, but her walls are still really up, and physical contact is limited to occasional hugs and little pokes. It's getting easier little by little, but there is a giant elephant in the room whenever we're together.
My question for you is should I pursue at all? I like flirting with her very much, but I don't know if I should. I have flirted some, with mixed results. Since I know she thought I was too sexually conservative for her (wrongly I might add, although it's my fault she thought so), I'm compelled to start dropping very sexual innuendos when the opportunity presents, but I'm conflicted. My conflict stems from the fact that she cheated on me, so it seems like I'm compromising my self respect if I pursue her. I feel like if she wants back with me, she needs to make the move, although could all her invitations to me be considered that move?
Also, some of the standard advice given here says that I should give her the impression that I've moved on to encourage her to pursue me. I've done a good job GALing, and I've made it clear to her that I'll be fine without her, but wouldn't flirting and sexual innuendos effectively "show her my cards" that I really do still want her?
Is there some sign I should wait to get from her before I go down this path? I know I should probably just be more patient and let her move toward me at her own pace, but as per some of your advice here, I don't want her to think that I'm not passionate about her and that I'm not willing to be aggressive in showing her how I feel. I think there's probably a subtle timing that's important, which is why I'm asking your advice.
going to fix...I can hear your hear breaking in your words, and it breaks mine, too. I wish I could comfort, there is just no words that can do that. :0(
I guess the least I can do is offer to you that I made the same types of mistakes...I mothered and nagged, didn't want to, didn't mean to, always just wanted him to man up...but it made him hate me slowly over time and I didn't read M/V until after we were divorced. So I messed up to the extent that it cost me my marriage, too, in lots and lots of ways, and I know the anguish that comes when you have to realize "wow, if I had only (fill in the blank) or did not (fill in the blank) instead of thinking this was all his fault...." and you blew an entire marriage just due to youth and ignorance of basic gender and love languages differences....ouch. I was where you are at a time, it sucked.
Having said that, no more books to him, ok? I was a loving gesture but he probably won't interpret it that way. Maybe some day there will be another chance but for now, no more attempts to reach out to him like that...just pray for yourself, your kids, him, and even for ex-gf-ow...they are both in for more pain down the line than they have any clue of.
future...
Can you share specifically what her complaints were about lack of intimacy? (Without obvious details, just the basic ideas).
And you say you've heard her and OM broke up. Am I clear on the fact that they were only physically together once that you know of? Also, how reliable is your source that they "broke up"? When she began her A online, was it through just chatting or something?
I'll answer depending on your answers here.
Sorry you find yourself here...everyone...its all so sad. DQ
Thanks again DQ. Moving on with being a better me. I was making it on my own before him and I will make it on my own again. Sadly he is the one who has never been able to make it on his own. You are right. They both have no idea the hurt they are going to feel when they realize that they really have nothing in common and they lost a wife and a best friend over their selfishness. He says he gave me chances, but I asked him how fair is that when I have no idea I am being given chances. I explained that I did not understand what he meant and that even he had given me so many different reasons as to why he was so depressed all the time. I loved him with all I had. I really did. It just wasn't according to the language he needed. Funny thing is, most of this started because he stopped speaking my love language early on in our relationship. I cried and pleaded then telling him that I didn't feel loved. It never got better, but I just got to the point where I just went on. I believe the resentment probably started then and it as well as my illness played a huge role in it. It's like we all say though, we can't fix anything that we aren't aware of and when we are finally made aware of it. They have already moved on in their minds. I'll move on. I'll love again. I will be a better me! Thanks again!
"It is excruciating pain. It is the pain of separation, the pain of loss, the pain of dreams and expectations unrealized. It is the loss and death of a mirage."
I could use some advice on setting hard, concrete boundaries with my DH. The latest mess is in my current thread. I believe, but do not know for a fact, that he is back from visiting his "friend".
I have struggled with these, as I am always afraid of hurting my kids. Because of that, I set the kids up to get hurt again by him.
Kelp please!
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~ SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
Ok, I'll do the best I can. On the one hand, my W says she wants complete emotional intimacy about thoughts, dreams, sex, etc. But, when she extends herself and doesn't get back what she expects, she attacks emotionally and then goes passive aggressive, which over the years has caused me to close off to her in some ways. Sexually, she was more experienced than me when we met, and more direct and frank about it. Truthfully, I was young, and intimidated, and my male ego expressed its intimidation in a manner she took as rejection, so she started to wall off her full sexuality from me. I saw this happen, and I really tried to get her to open back up, but she was too hurt, and wasn't willing to risk again.
She's also a dreamer, which is something I love about her, but while she really pushed for us to start the standard suburban lifestyle of a family home and three kids, she also didn't want to let go of her dreams of a more exciting life filled with travel and adventure. Particularly when the kids were little, I was just trying to get through each day and I took her expression of those dreams as just complaints about the life she told me she wanted, and which I was busting my butt to provide. I would discuss her dreams sometimes, but always in the context of "someday" when the kids are bigger, which she did not take as very satsifying. I felt she was being immature and irresposible, and I started to resent her for it, which caused me to wall off.
Through all this, we still loved each other, and we still maintained a decent family life. We revelled in the kids we created. However, our life became all about managing our day to day responsibilities, and all these things inside her were just building up pressure to get out. She was so unhappy and she just didn't see me as someone she could express her feelings to, which is really sad.
Now enter the OM. She had known this man when she visited this foreign country when she was young. That time in her life represented everything she felt she was now missing, and once she turned 40, she started to feel her life was slipping away. This man had expressed much interest in her back then, but she was completely uninterested in him, at least that's what her mother tells me. She initiated contact with him via e-mail, found him single and still interested in her, and they began an e-mail relationship. She began to share all these feeling and dreams that she didn't feel safe sharing with me. They got closer and closer, and she started telling me she didn't love me anymore. Last October she told me our marriage was over, and their relationship immediately turned sexual. They began an explicit e-mail, phone, and webcam relationship, and planned to meet in person to consumate. I didn't know about any of this until ten days before she was to leave on this trip, a trip she told me was for research for her PhD. When I discovered all this I was devastated. I managed to get her to cancel her trip by being tough, but I failed to convince her to stop the affair. She was too far gone, in full affair mode, completely obsessed, talking with him several times per day, texting all the time, e-mails, etc. She was expressing to him how she felt she found her soul mate, and how it's a miracle they found each other again, etc. Really blowtorching it, as per your other posting about affairs. She moved out a couple weeks after I found out about the affair.
I knew that often times these affairs die when the secrecy and taboo nature is removed, so I just went completely dark, and let happen whatever was going to happen. I was GALing, detaching, and facing the liklihood that my marriage was over. About a month after she moved out, she travelled to see the OM for a week. She was planning another trip a few months later, but I heard the OM was starting to doubt that they could have any real future together, so I presume due to the affair starting to collapse, she went again a month after her first trip. A couple weeks after that, her moods started fluxuating wildly, and she went through an emotional crisis where she was crying all the time, and eventually went on anti-depressant meds. That's when I heard they "broke up". My source is very reliable that they did indeed "break up", but I don't know what that means, since they still talk on the phone all the time, albeit much less than before. She still gets in these really bad moods for reasons she won't discuss, so I assume they have something to do with OM. My best guess is that they've made some decision to "just be friends" because of the distance between them, but she's still relying on him for emotional support.
I don't know if it's the right time yet, but if she's healing from the years of hurt in our marriage, how do you think I should start trying to rebuild trust with her so she feels she can share her dreams and sexuality with me again? Is it essential that the OM is completely out of the picture, because if it is, I could be waiting a long time. Should I give her an ultimatum of him or me? Should I wait for her to come to me, more than she already has? I think rushing things would be a big mistake, so I'm totally fine just letting things sit for a while.
Obviously our M is dangling by a thread and I don't know if we can rebuild it. It would be rough road back, but I've come to such clarity on where things went wrong, I would really like the chance to just "test the waters" between us and see if it could be different.
SMW - I have been watching along on your thread, sad and horrified for you, of course. All I can say is that he is DEEP DEEP into his own head and it is, as you know, up his own butt. (Very dark in there).
I have said on my thread before that I can't really understand these WAS's who have also walked away from their own children. Its one thing to convince yourself that your marriage is over and that is why you are having an affair, blah blah blah, but how can they live with themselves when it comes to abandoning their kids? I'll never get that one.
Although I did get a glimpse of this from some divorced brother-in-laws (two of them, my ex-h's brothers) who were having affairs, and when their wives said "what about the kids? This is going to kill them" their answers were always along the lines of "me and my kids are just FINE, don't talk to me about MY KIDS". Which seems to me to show that some WAS's have a strange romantic notion about their own kids, that says that the kids will love them and TAKE THEIR SIDE in their pursuit of THEIR OWN HAPPINESS no matter what they do to achieve it!
So apparently, some people actually think that their children will "just understand" their "need to pursue happiness". I guess since this seems to be a common thing for some people to think, it must not be that far out in space. Its not until you test this theory that you find out you are WRONG. Your kids will NOT just love you no matter what! Your kids can actually move on from you! There may be a tiny tad of genetic bonded love, but that doesn't mean the same thing at all. I think maybe because some of these wayward parents know that they will love their kids no matter what the kids do, that the reverse is true. They find out fast that the reverse certainly is NOT TRUE!!
I'm so sorry for you and your kids....
As for boundaries, honey, the only thing I can advise is that you call him up and chew his azz out and tell him exactly what he's doing to those kids, then hang up. I know that's not good DB'ing, but you've been on the road a long time and he doesn't seem to be getting an earful from anyone about what he is doing to the kids, is he? I mean I know you are saying the BIL/SIL are disappointed and all, but the relatives are rarely able to talk to a man directly like this, you know?
And if God is telling you that he is going to come back one day so to be patient....then you can't really go wrong here, right? Giving him an earful about how he is hurting his own kids can't turn him further away from you, he is already completely turned away. Also it will not be to be giving him guilt either, it will be to give him the TRUTH about his own kids, something every parent needs to hear, no matter how it is delivered.
In your case, I guess you have the benefit of the OM being in another country. That might actually work out for you, as she can't physically be with him at all....and here's another question...
Is there any way you can contact OM and tell him "look dude, she's a married woman, she may be telling you she hates me and has been emotionally divorced for a long time, but as far as I'm concerned she only started saying that when she found you again on-line...please be a MAN and respect this married man's request to stay away from his wife". ???
Yeah, if the OM was local, this whole thing would be much tougher, so I guess I should count myself fortunate in that regard.
I seriously considered contacting the OM when I found out about the affair back in December, and appealing to any conscience he may have, especially considering our three young kids. Something told me not to though. I knew my W was on a path she needed to travel alone. One of my good friends said "She'll never be happy if she doesn't do this and see what happens," and I knew it was true. I just showed her I loved her, and I made our Christmas holiday truly special, but when she chose him, I went dark and moved on with my life. When the affair collapsed so soon, I knew that maybe there was still a chance, if I still wanted one.
Tonight during our son's baseball game, my W told me she had all the kids away at sleepovers Friday night, and she asked if I would like to go out to see a movie with her. She kind of made a joke of it, and said we'd be going just as friends, but I knew it was a meaningful gesture on her part. Initially, I was cool to her offer, and didn't really reply one way or the other. At the end of the game as we were leaving I did say I'd like to go, and we made a tentative plan. I'm not optimistic she'll follow through though. When faced with me saying yes, she backpedaled a little and said she had a plan to watch a movie at her friend's house, and she'd have to see if she could get out of that. She said she'd call me tomorrow to let me know. I said "If you're not going to go, I need to know so I can make other plans." She replied, "I'll let you know as soon as I can tomorrow, if you have another option, take it. I don't mind." She was friendly, not annoyed, but I get the distinct feeling I'm being played a bit here. She got me to say yes to her offer, and now she's giving herself an out. Gotta love these games!
