boy, this is tough. I told my H that I wouldnt even discuss D while the OW was still in the picture. I guess I would say that you should stick to your guns. This is your marriage too, and she isnt the only person to get a say in what happens to it.
What happens if you just dont participate? Can she go forward at all without your consent? After 6 months or a year?
Bottom line, as far as I am concerned, you shouldn't put yourself through any more hell for something that you dont want. Yeah she might flip.
Does anyone else think that this is a place for a LRT? If you arent ready to go to the last resort then I think that the answer is no, but maybe you should start reading up on it just in case it does come to that.
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
It sure is tough. Bluerain, maybe you've hit the nail on the head though. I hate the idea of moving forward with the separation if my W is still under the influence of the OM, so perhaps I should take your exact same stance. As long as the OM is in the picture, I will refuse to move forward with the separation. The question is, how do I verify she's had no contact with the OM, and how long do I require this no contact before I'll relent?
If I don't participate, her only recourse is to get a lawyer, spend a lot of money we don't have, and try to trump up some grounds for divorcing me, of which she has none. She'd have to try to claim that her unhappiness in our marriage was essentially a form of abuse I was inflicting upon her. Of course she was unfaithful, and she'd know that was a card I could pull out at any time. I know deep down she's ashamed about that, so I don't think she'd want that coming out. If she really stuck to her guns, and it was just getting uglier and uglier, I'd relent. My wanting to stop the separation is just send the message that I'm not going to tolerate her dicatating how this is going to go anymore, a la No More Mr Nice Guy.
As far the LRT goes, that's essentially what I've been doing. I don't initiate any R talk, I only contact her to discuss the kids, I don't initiate physical contact hardly at all, I always have a PMA when I'm around her, etc. Now that things have improved between us, I guess I'd say now I'm really doing LRT-lite, in that when I do spend time with her and the kids, I drop my guard somewhat and have friendly conversation, and I don't act quite so mysterious. She doesn't know all of what I do when she's got the kids, but I do answer her honestly if she asks, instead of dodging the question like I used to. The fact that she asks is interesting, I think. It funny how she does it too, like she really doesn't care, she's just wondering.
I had "spies" who told me that she was seeing someone else, and that he had tried to surprise her by showing up unannounced and found her with another man... still makes me smile...
Do you have anyone around who can be your informant? Im not saying that you should ask questions that you dont want the answers to, believe me, you have to be careful about that, but just someone to tell you that it over between them.
Honestly I think that you will be able to tell, when she stops showing up looking like shes slept or showered or eaten: its over. My H went from being a dark haired military man, strong, muscular, healthy, to having sunken eyes, dropping weight and his gray hair doubled. He became extremely depressed, which is not something that would have happened if he was still in the fantasy of spending the rest of his life with the sex goddess OM.
So I really think that you will know.
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
Looks like it's just you and me here on my thread bluerain. Thanks for sticking around.
Sounds like your H got the karma he was due. Must've been quite a scene!
My W has a friend who is her main confidant, and she is my friend too. I've considered asking her, but in the past she told me she will keep no secrets with my W, so I can expect that she'll tell my W that I asked, and I'm not sure I want my W knowing that. If my W wants me to know, then she should tell me. Of course she's probably really embarrassed and feels foolish, so perhaps her not telling me is because of that.
You're absolutely right about being able to tell, and yes, my W fell off cloud 9 back around 6 weeks ago. She was crying all the time, had to go on anti-depressants, and then started eating all the chocolate she could get her hands on and gaining weight, which is her stress reaction. She seems to be recovering slowly, and this has coincided with the improvement of our R. One of my friends told me to be careful, because she's effectively on the rebound now, and I know to heed that warning.
Although I believe the main affair is over, I think they've agreed to "just be friends" due to the distance between them, and they are still talking occasionally to each other. In my opinion my W is still involved in an EA, albeit a minor one at this point. This is the situation I don't know how to handle, and perhaps this is what I should ask our friend about.
I have the advantage that I'm right here and I see her all the time, but does that just make her take me for granted, allowing her to pine away for her lost OM? In my gut, I think that's what's going on. Should I go dark, effectively forcing her to be alone (or find someone new!), or take advantage of our time together, be fun and charming, and hope we'll grow closer? So far that does seem to be working, but I sometimes feel like I'm compromising my self respect by giving my warmth and humor to a woman who hurt me so bad and has shown no remorse. Will her feeling closer to me force her to face what she did and eventually express remorse, or will it make her think she got away with it because I seem so okay with everything?
Have you been looking at all at the affairs forum? You can read about other peoples sitch's over there and learn from what they have done.
Shes probably grieving for that OM relationship. I know its disgusting. Have you talked to your friend about what he was giving her that you couldnt? Or maybe just ask her what she thinks you would do to be there more for your W, its a thin, thin line between real information gathering and accidentally asking a question that you really dont want to know the answer to. Even if she tattles on you to W, would it be so bad for her to know that her H is trying to be better for her?
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
Yes, I'm a regular reader over at the affairs forum, and I've learned some good stuff.
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Shes probably grieving for that OM relationship. I know its disgusting.
It is so nice to hear that come from someone else!
I've never directly discussed the situation with our friend. At first she really closed down to me because she didn't feel she could maintain a loyalty to both me and my W, but ever since the affair died, she has been very friendly to me. In fact, all my W's friends have been super nice to me ever since my W's affair ended, which kind of threw me for a loop at first. I'm not really sure what's going on there.
I'm very resistant to discussing the OM with our friend, because I've essentially refused to acknowledge their R, as per DBing rules. Besides, I pretty much know what she was getting from her affair. It was a fantasy, removed from all the stress points in our life, kids, money, house issues, lifestyle negotiations, etc. She was complaining about everything in her life, and he was giving her the validation that it's all my fault, and that she's just a victim, and she deserves so much better, and she shouldn't settle for less than what she wants, etc. As he told her everything she wanted to hear, she became convinced that he was everything she wanted, and I was a drag on her life that needed to be cut loose. The biggest thing I've learned from her affair is that she wants to be HEARD, and to know her needs and wants are given real importance, and to feel totally safe expressing her dreams about life. I will be the first to admit I failed in that regard in the past.
I've maintained a very clear position that I've moved on with my life, and as far as my W knows, I've accepted the fact that we're getting a D. In fact, I've told her in no uncertain terms that I'd prefer to D her sooner rather than later, and that the only reason I'm not suing her for divorce is because of money and health insurance reasons. That was said back when the affair was going strong, and I wanted to send her a CLEAR message that I'm not sticking around while she's with another man. When the affair died so quickly, I was thrown back into limbo, by my own choice, but my W might not know that, even though I'm certainly much more open and friendly to her now. I do wonder if I should tell my W that my position has changed, but I don't know if I can do that until she shows me some remorse! Sometimes it feels like a silly game we're playing, except the stakes are so terribly high.
Its huge that you have acknowledged how you could have been better. Im not sure if you should tell her either. I think that it might freak her out. Are you still in the D process? Maybe you should just tell her that you arent as ready for it as you thought. Could you ask her maybe just how she feels bout the D still?
A big breakthrough that I had with my H was when we were discussing separating car insurance. I told him that the thought of us becoming even more seperate just made me sad. He agreed and it opened up a big dialogue for us.
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
Hi Future I don't think you're ready to committ to the LRT, so don't. Stop telling her you want a divorce. Stop talking about your R. No more D challenges. Maybe you should go darker. If she thinks she can divorce you and you're still going to be around when she's got nothing better to do, why wouldn't she divorce you? Maybe it's time to show her what life would really be like. And I am NOT telling you to date, but imagine if you met someone else? Someone else really great.....you wouldn't be able to do dinner with her and the kids, because you'd probably be out with your new great girlfriend. And you would spend the quality time with the kids when you had them and when you didn't, you wouldn't really be around your wife when she did. You might stay for dinner here and there, maybe when your new girl was busy or out of town....but do you get what I'm saying? At this point, you've shown your W that life will be cool when you two divorce. You'll hang out and be buddies. If that's not how it's going to be, show her how it will be. But realize, she maybe ok with that. And if she is, you have your answer. But I don't think she will be. GAL. Start cutting her out slowly but surely.
Thank you for going so far back to find my thread. My W's actions show me that she wants to move forward with the legal separation. Deep down I don't think she really knows whether or not she wants a D, but she knows she wants to be separated right now, and if that's the case, then she wants to get an agreement in place, and I agree. We can't go on like we are. It prevents us from moving forward with our life. Getting that agreement won't preclude us from working on our R, it might even help, as we won't have to discuss finances anymore.
stillloveshim-
Awesome advice. You can probably tell from my posts that I'm very conflicted about my situation. I think in the back of my head I know I should do exactly what you recommend. I was doing just that back when my W's A was going strong, but when it ended, I allowed myself to get sucked back in. She's lonely now, and I'm showing her I'm still there for her, when I shouldn't be. Our kids are so happy when we're all together, and they've been through such a hard time, it's going to be tough to deny them that. If I consider it my attempt to bring our family back together, then that'll give me strength. You describing how I would act if I started seeing someone I cared about is exactly how I should look at things and try to model my behavior after that. Thanks again.
