Newbie - first post

[Making_IT]

'most spouses that walk away from a marriage tend to treat the spouse they left behind like crap. They are rude, selfish, demanding and cold. They think the sun and moon and stars revolve around them and each whim or desire they have. Its all part of the anatomy of a walk away spouse.'

Man is that the truth! It was as if the person that I had known for 15 yrs changed overnight,,,,, literally.

[mnt_dreams]

That's exactly how I feel! Like I'm being treated like crap.

We [/b] ALL [b] deserve better.

I'm feeling much more powerful this week. I realize that I'm in control of myself and I'm going to choose to be happy. Acting happy makes me happy and I'm feeling pretty good! Exercise helps, and venting to my BF did but not so much right now... She's getting mad at H for his actions and I just don't think it's healthy for him or for her. Better to just move on and let him do his thing. Hopefully he'll work thru his stuff, and the OW will fade away, but I can't control when or if that happens.

Two new GAL activities I'm going to check into are a swing or hip hop class, and maybe a book club. My C suggested that GAL activities should be just for me, and should involve other people. Better than picking up an activity that is solo - alone time is not for the best right now. So those two ideas seem to fit the bill! We'll see how it goes.

[CityGirl]

Hey, good for you! The dance class and the book club sound great! I joined a book club a few years ago.. we ended up just sitting around and drinking wine and never discussing the books, lol! But it was fun!

I am glad you are feeling good.. yay!

[mnt_dreams]

That's the kind of book club I'd like! Little vino, little conversation... I don't know unless I put myself out there, right?

[25yearsmlc]

Book clubs rock! Seriously, and so does theater if you are up for auditioning or doing crew work. It's VERY absorbing so you cannot obsess about anything other than the show...

Sucks about OW...but the A's, IF it is one, have to run their stupid course and the average is about 6 months but can be from 3 to 18 and SOME result in M...a 21 y/o? No, not a lasting R...not in mho at least. What's he got in common with her? Never mind, don't go there. But know that after the physical stuff, most people like to have conversations....know what I mean? That's why I honestly never thought about boy toys or understood middle aged women having much younger men like the "cougars".... (Except for when I get an Academy Award, if I were single, THEN I'd like a handsome 25 y/o for the evening...you know, to pose on the red carpet with, etc....) Seriously, it strikes me as a bit pathetic when I see it. My oldest brother dated a 24 y/o woman after he left his w (my sil, who was GREAT and I am still close to her and we still vacation together, etc) but he said "she's 24" twice and I said, "bro, you already told me that and I guess you want my reaction...but it is not a good reaction so don't push it." But he did! HE insisted I and my sisters tell him what we thought of him dating someone so much younger and ALL of us, without "consulting each other" had the same response...like "how insecure of him" and "how pathetic it looked" etc. Oh, she broke up with him too. Anyhow....she didn't know who George Harrison was, so...see ya! And he did remarry, a woman HIS age...and his ex w, my wonderful sil, remarried too. A GREAT GUY who makes her happy! Happier than my brother EVER did. Yeah, the irony of it all...

So, you KNOW what to do. Where the head goes, the heart will follow. I don't know what your fil means exactly. That was confusing to me. But I am sure you need to deal with your money issues NOW....do you have a L yet? Didn't we say this before?

Seeing a L does not MAKE you file. It empowers you with knowledge so you'll know how vulnerable you really are, or aren't.


See a L. ASAP. And did you get a good c? If not, (or if you can afford both) then call for a DB coach. I found them VERY helpful and I did it all. Worked out, GAL,
had a good t, took AD's etc AND had a DB coach but if I could only do ONE thing...it'd be the coaching...not to take anything away from the rest, but it was very specific for me and so helpful. Plus the pkg ended up costing what regular t costs around here anyhow. Maybe even a tad less. So, there's that.
And is there something you can spend your money on that is more important? It's like getting your heart treated...literally and figuratively.
(( j ))

PS so you know, I like posting to you. You are hurting a great deal and have suffered a lousy blow. Of the LBSers, a few sort of "deserve it" but most played a role in the demise of their m. IF they ever get to that component, it's crucial in how well they do in their lives afterwards. If they stay in denial and place themselves in the "I'm an LBSer for NO reason and WAS left me FOR NO REASON"...it means they'll never feel in control of anything b/c after all, if they were perfect and without flaws AND YET were left behind...the world really sucks and they'll never take a risk again. But if we own our roles, then we can change ourselves and go forward in or out of the R and know that we are different now, and awake....and ultimately, in the LONG RUN...happier for it. So when I see how you cope, how you DO things differently b/c you want to be happy, how you CHANGE the way you THINK and feel with your head and heart both involved, and BRAVELY LOOK WITHIN AND FACE THE WORLD AS IT IS...then I think to myself, "now there goes a woman only a fool would leave."

(( j ))

[kara]

Hi everyone. I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly or whether I should be posting my own thread but I am so anxious to get some feedback. Its long, so please bear with me.

I'm 36, H iS 45. H seems to have all the symptoms of classic MLC - new flashy vehicle, new clothes, new diet, weight loss. Intuition and H's strange behaviour sent me snooping. Found some graphic e-mails a few months ago which would strongly suggest H involved in affair. I immediately confronted H who claimed that it was harmless. H was outraged that I invaded his privacy and said it was a gamechanger.

Since my discovery H started coming home later and later, out constantly at weekends and returning in a.m. Things he never did before. Started to only state he was "going out" but gave no details. Would try to reach H on phone and calls ignored even at midnight. This only made me angrier because he did not even check to see whether there was an emergency.

When I pressed him to discuss the issue he said I was always controlling, that ours had been a sexually and emotionally starved relationship for most of its life (together 13 years)and that he had had enough. He was unsure what he wanted and begged for time to consider his options without my constant questions. He knew that he definitely did not want counselling.

I found it hard to keep my cool especially when he was coming and going at all hours and not saying who he was with or where he was going. I told him that he would have to decide whether he was married or single and that I would not tolerate this kind of behaviour. I constantly began pressing him for an answer when he clearly had none. He said I was "stressing him out" and kept begging for space. I could not stop this behaviour although he told me it was driving him away. I was so angry, hurt, needed answers.....so I lectured, cried, begged, texted, emailed, snooped some more. I knew it was counter productive but just could not stop.

Anyhow, four days ago he said he didin't feel the same anymore and that he didn't think we could regain our footing.That he had felt too many years of disatisfaction and realised that life was slipping away and that he is getting older. Held out no hope for change.

I did not act gracefully and exploded in anger which was wrong since he was finally giving me an answer. We moved into a new home late last year around the time this OW thing seemed to have been in its infancy. I am very angry at the thought that he allowed us to make this costly step when he should have known he was not happy. Especially with the economy the way it is now. Asked point blank if he wanted a D and he said had laid out his position and that would make my choice but he "supposed" that it would come to that.I said that given how he felt D seemed to be the only option.

I am now regretting raising the D word because in all our arguments he has never raised it. I have done so in anger and fear. This is his 2nd marriage.

I have now retreated into a cordial silence since his declaration. We slept in separate rooms for the first time. I think it best if I do not speak to him about our M or mention the word D. I am the one who would like our marrige to be saved but there are big changes that we both need to make if we are to have a chance. It could never proceed the way it was in the past because I know that the R was getting stale and that we were growing apart. I am praying and seeking guidance on working on my changes while praying and observing to see whether this OW r/ship will run its course and whether he seems to be changing.


Does anyone have any practical advice as to how I may quietly try to rekindle his interest in our M and to show him that I can change my controlling and impatient behaviour? His mind seems pretty made up but I know that things can and do change so I am realistically positive. At this stage I do not intend to take any action to terminate our M and feel certain that he will not do so in any hurry.

Problem is that he tries to spend as little time as possible in my presence probably because for the past few months all I have done is question, cry, yell etc. Even I don't want to be around me like that! So obviously my behaviour changes and I "become still" for the time being but what else can I do? My inner voice says do nothing, just be.

I appreciate your replies because I realise that you have been thorugh this and maybe can say what works for you. Thanks!

[25yearsmlc]

Kara,

First off, yes you need to post your own thread. The place for that will be at the beginning of the site, once you get to online community, look for it. Give it a name or title that we can recall easily to find you. If you post a lot on others' threads, you'll hijack someone's (don't worry at this point as many of us did this at first) and that isn't fair to them BUT you'll also get piecemeal advice or people will lose you.

Second, you have to READ the Divorce Busting/Divorce REmedy books NOW or this won't make sense to you and you'll continue to do the opposite of what you are supposed to do. So IF YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY AND MARRIED then read the books and change your approach NOW...BUT IF YOU WANT TO BE "RIGHT" THEN GO AHEAD AND BE ANGRY ALL THE TIME UNTIL HE SURRENDERS OR DIES OR YOU ARE DIVORCED...B/C HEY, YOU ARE "RIGHT"...see my point? Do you want to be happy, or do you want to be "right"?

Yes we've all been there in some form. So read the book and if you only have time for one, I'd say read the latter ONLY b/c the first one discusses how bad divorce is so if you already know that, go to the Div Remedy book BUT if you are confused,, then get both and start with D Busting...

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM NOW and do not bring up the books YOU are reading b/c they are for YOU and YOU ONLY. Do not "SHOW" him you are different now, in a matter of days...

Be different. Start with the 180s (opposite of what he expects of you or from you--)those will DEMONSTRATE thru your actions and NOT meaningless words, who you are NOW....(think of who he fell in love with, and become her again). Did you nag him then? Bet not. Your words are like bees buzzing to him, or worse...nothing you SAY will affect him EXCEPT THE DIVORCE word and you don't need to say that again. IF you want to stay M to him, let HIM be the one to FILE...sometimes the MLCer is so confused and takes a long time to see that a divorce is NOT what he wants after all but if you already filed and it's over, then that's that...SOME men/women need to see the risk of loss before they will wake up but in this case your anger and comments have turned him off so he won't see divorce as much of a loss to him YET....(this does NOT mean you should not see a lawyer as it is stupid not to do so. See a lawyer and ask questions and pay for a consultation. You don't have to DO anything and most lawyers know that most clients simply want their fears addressed. If you wish to retain them down the road, your h will likely have to foot the bill if he is the bigger bread winner. But again, your lawyer will advise you of how vulnerable you could be, or not. Mine was great (and I am a L but I don't give advice here, fyi) but she told me essentially what the worst case scenarios were and the best and the most likely and at one point I DID file for a sep to protect h from "investing" our house with his heroes in Alaska....well, thank GOD for that since we'd have lost even more if I had not done that...generally I felt empowered by my Lawyers info as it gave me choice. I did not feel trapped. Or cornered or fears of being on the streets b/c I had made a lot of career sacrifices, etc.

Stop trying to understand what is NOT understandable. Pay no attention to what he says, and only half of what he does....re-read that last sentence or you'll go nuts as his moods and words and actions will NOT match up...

SO go read those books, and get your own thread and ON that thread, post how long you have been married, "together", # kids and their ages, relevant SHORT info about what or how you got here... OW (other woman) issues, etc,

Snooping and all that info IS IN THE BOOKS so you need to read those to get support here that is effective. Meaning some of this is NOT intuitively obvious. We all feel that if our spouses cheat, THEY SHOULD STOP but saying that is useless. If you are sure it means it's over IF he is having an affair, then snoop, get proof you "need" for closure and file...

But if you are interested in TRYING to salvage this even with an affair in the history (and many people do) then STOP SNOOPING as it is counter productive, destructive, and will consume YOU.

For now, lose the anger you feel at least in front of him. It only confirms his choices b/c now he can justify leaving since you are so difficult and hard to be around and "controlling" and "critical" and whatever other blah blah blah he says. But your anger will fuel his negative images and you need to counter those negatves with positives....a warm and loving home, laughter, kids playing, the good stuff without hitting him over the head manipulating...so don't get out the wedding album to "just look"...

But if you have kids, INVOLVE HIM WITH THEM and let him see you lovingly interacting with them. Let him contrast the warmth and comfort of your beautiful new home (don't make it out to be an albatross b/c you'll be associated with THAT) with whatever the heck he thinks is out there...let OW and the A run its' course without you commenting anymore about it. The typical A lasts 6 months...what was the reason his last M failed? The snooping and anger will ruin YOUR LIFE so calm down...and don't think for a minute that You being calm and serene will make him think you don't care or you are condoning it. That's an excuse you want to use to stay angry...Has your anger worked? No. Has the constant carping reminded him of how wonderful you are and how much he loves being with you? NO....so
STOP GOING DOWN CHEESELESS TUNNELS....

There, that should be a good start for you...I'm very sorry you are here, but you are in the right place for this time in your life. For what it's worth, see my signature below and notice that some of us DO MAKE IT THROUGH...but it ain't easy. If it is a mid life crisis all that means is MAYBE he'll snap out of it and be mostly like he once was...but a lot of people say theire spouses are "crazy" when really they're just miserable and have been awhile, and some of us have been sleep walking through our marriages too and got complacent. Some of us brought some of this upon ourselves.

Whatever things YOU know you"own" as far as doing destructive things to the marriage, need to change now. Bravely look within and begin YOUR OWN WORK...IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO SHOW YOUR SPOUSE THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS; LIFE WILL DO THAT FOR HIM...you are to listen like a lover if you can...applaud loudly for the 1% of positive things he does or says and lose the anger at least in front of him,....those are words right out of my DB coach's mouth and they helped me more than you know. It is very hard (like Mother Teresa Hard) to do at times...OMG, I KNOW....but I had to let go of the anger even when "justified", (we all KNOW it's Justified...so what??) OR my anger and pain would ruin my life and my children's.(NOT H's)...and keep in mind if you do have kids that you are modelling for them (they are watching you) what a woman of grace and dignity does when faced with a terrible blow to her heart. Does she collapse and fall apart or become a bitter hardened woman? (both types are NOT attractive and will NOT get your h back)
No, you are a woman who will always (from now on) be calm in the face of betrayal, serene in knowing that although she was a flawed woman, she faced her own faults and corrected them and found grace and peace within and at some point when your h sees all this and has his doubts and OW starts whining and needling and making demands...you will be the one he wants....and if not, you're still a woman who "didn't lose her sh--"...

(I found Marianne Williamson's books on "Handling Anger" VERY helpful, and "The Gift of Change" also. I put them on my IPOD and took long walks listening to her).

If you can afford it, and you really probably can, get some DB coaching appointments ASAP as they are very specific and for ME AND US more helpful than MC (even though I LOVED our mc and h eventually did like the guy too) but DB coaches are specific and you need that now. I saw several MC's some with h and some not. Went on meds at one point, for sleep mainly but also to keep myself from yelling at him, worked out, Got A Life (GAL is a word you'll see here a lot and YOU MUST DO IT NO MATTER WHAT), joined things, made NEW friends, became interested and interesting, and started moving on in my life... Then h started calling more and the rest is history...still being made.

Good luck,
( j )

[kara]

Thanks a Mill,J. This really helps.

You have reinforced a lot of what I feel I should do. I know my anger is destructive and has done a lot of damage. I felt justified becuase I was being treated so disrespectfully but I realise that giving it time would have been the better option. I just became obsessed and am dialling down from that because it is very unhealthy and not who I need to be.

I have started my 180.I am going to post my own thread now, so I hope you will check it out so I can talk to you again.

Kara



.

[mnt_dreams]

Thanks so much for the response, I've enjoyed each one so much! I do feel like I'm taking ownership of my errors with H, but certainly there's more work to be done. I try to journal about that stuff, and if I ever get another chance I know I need to let H be himself, not control or nag, and respect him for all the ways he's different than me. Those differences and the similarities as well brought us together... and maybe they'll bring us back together again. Time will tell.

I have not contacted a L. I did feel like that would be getting ahead of the sitch, but perhaps not. I've got some folks at work that have been down this path. I'll see if I can get a referral. Good thought.

I do have a C and started the AD's 10 days ago. I think both are helping my PMA a lot. I will look into the DB coaching... I am totally sold on this method... it may not save my M, but if it doesn't I'll come out the other side healthier. And if any technique can help save the M, I believe this is it.

Today should have been a tough day but I came through it pretty well. My H's work has a 'end of season' party at one of the ski areas every year. I didn't go, of course, and went to my S's BBall tournament out of town instead. The games kept my mind off of all the memories of years past, and I didn't obsess too much about whether H took OW along or not. Out of my control. If my DB'g works effectively, maybe next year's party will be different.

Oh, and the suggestion for auditioning is spot-on. I did some theater in HS and always wanted to try again. That would be a huge leap for me, but yes, working back staqe would be a fun way to get back into it. Excellent idea!

[hopeful_cb]

Hey mnt I just wanted to say hi and check in on how you're doing. You sound really positive and like you are making some great actions towards helping you.

I can really identify with some of what you said...

and if I ever get another chance I know I need to let H be himself, not control or nag, and respect him for all the ways he's different than me. Those differences and the similarities as well brought us together... and maybe they'll bring us back together again. Time will tell.

I see some of me in this as well.

good for you for keeping busy with the BBall games