On the topic of the man yanking off her panties...
I had been thinking a bit ago about the phenomenon where women tend to think that men should "just know" what turns her on, and therefore many women tend to never learn how to tell or show a man what she needs, as she is continually stuck with the impression that he should "just know".
Now I still think that this is incorrect and men do not "just know" and women need to be in touch enough with themselves to tell their man what they need....however....
I am thinking that this feeling that women have that men should "just know" IS FACTUAL on a certain level. Because the thing is, what women want is for a man to take her, and doesn't a man always want to just take a woman? Doesn't a man have to learn how NOT to take a woman, how to fight his sexual urges and never push himself upon a woman sexually? He has to LEARN this because his body "just knows" that it wants to take the woman. And a woman knows that a man "just knows" that he wants to take her. So when he doesn't take her, even now within a committed relationship when he is supposed to be free to take her as he wants (within respectful limits)...she ends up feeling discouraged and disappointed when he DOESN'T just take her. She knows instinctively that HIS instincts are what should guide their sexual encounters, not hers. Her job is to be receptive and to not get hurt in the process of him taking her.
To put it this way...
When my man starts making eyes at me in the way that says he is about to take me, and further when he starts pushing his body up against mine or roughly making out with me, I immediately start getting physically aroused and wet. My BODY KNOWS what it is supposed to do. Even if my mind is still on "gee, I'm not sure if we have time before I have to leave for work", my body is already gearing up, in response to the fact that a stronger male is giving me signals that he is going to "just take" me. This message tells my body to get physically aroused and wet, because if it doesn't, I can get hurt. So my body is doing me this favor by being ready for it physically, whether I am emotionally or not.
But we can't fake this dynamic. It only happens when his body is truly coming at me to take me, and my body truly responds to his intent. If we are just pretending and I know that he has to rush out the door and isn't going to take me, even if he is roughly making out with me or talking dirty like he might, my body won't respond in the same way. My body knows the difference based on HIS TRUE intent.
So in thinking back in the past and when I believed naively that men should "just know" what turns a woman on... I think it was not so far off base after all. Men really DO "just know", they have just been trained NOT to follow through on what they "just know". But they do, in fact, know it.
But Baggy, it does make sense, doesn't it? My last post, that is. The male-female animalistic dynamic is present, always. And if a male animal is going to dominate and "take" a female animal, she is likely not going to make some emotional play like "nah, I'm not up for it tonight Mr. Lion...try me again when I've had more rest". Instead, based upon her instinctual understanding (which doesn't require emotional understanding) that he is about to mount her, all she needs to know is how to not get hurt in the process...which means, her body gets ready for it and she gets into position for it. Simple?
I actually do grok you, although in the context of our 'modern' primate society and culture, it really does put an unfair burden on the silver-back males to know when, -really- when, it is alright to let our animal selves out of the cage and 'take' what we want -- what our hormones and instincts are driving us to want. And also when it is -really- NOT alright.
But who said life was fair....
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Eh... I just think, in a trusting R, the guy should just try whenever he wants to try without trying to read the situation too much. Your W can say no or give you the code word for stop.
At least, that's how I wish my H would handle me. I'm more than capable of telling him if he's all over me too much.
How are you supposed to get into a satisfying groove without acting on your natural urges when they arise?
Yeah Baggy...what LG said....there isn't any need to figure out "when" is a good time if you are truly listening to your primal urges, right? Whenever you have the primal urge, you go for it, just like the silverback will do. Then if she beats your ears for it, you know its not the right time. But not fearing rejection at all is the key here, and I do understand that given your history of rejection, you can't just shake that off overnight.
I guess I can at least tell you all though, that if you can set aside your fears of rejection or of "doing it perfectly" or whatever else may be in your fears, and if you can just authentically "go after" your woman when the urge hits you, SHE WILL respond to you in a way that is new to you. She will be turned on by it. It is in her nature to be so turned on by it that her body will take over and she will be physically aroused by the time you get there. That's how this stuff works! But give her the whif of any insecurity, and her body knows the difference. She won't be responsive to your insecurity, why would she be? Not to say that she doesn't share in the responsibility for that insecurity in your case, Baggy, because of your history together. But at the same time, she needs to let go of her insecurities too, and you need to let go of yours.
What the worst thing that can happen? She will say "no"? Pffft, if that's all, then you are used to that one! LOL!
All I know is that if my man's body is coming after mine with the intent of taking me, I have no choice but to respond sexually to him!
Type 7: The Enthusiast Basic Desire: to be happy Basic Fear: of being deprived
So....were you 'deprived' of happiness, adventure, experiences as a child in some way?
Originally Posted By: "Luckygirl"
Oh sure. Squeaky clean, Catholic, "good girl", Old Country Italian crap. Constant riding, constant finger pointing at the trashy neighbors, lots of praise of individuals who were "exemplary".
I was always trying to bust out or rebel in some way....
Not to put too much emphasis on this 'personality typing' stuff, which is, by necessity, a gross oversimplication (or characature) of a highly-complex persona, but something from the description for your type, Lucky, stood out to me:
"In the healthy state, the need to be happy induces Type Sevens to explore the world and genuinely appreciate what they find. They derive great happiness as a result, thus their need is satisfied and a balance is reached.
In the average state, when Sevens' are not exploring and appreciating the world, they become restless and unhappy. The the need to be happy increases, which helps Sevens to again reach out to the world and find things to appreciate. Thus the balancing loop can help Sevens to recover.
In the unhealthy state, the basic fear of being being deprived can cause Type Sevens to numbly seek new and different sensations and adventures without truly appreciating the experience. This means they will derive little happiness from all the highs, which further increases Sevens' feeling of emptiness and basic fear of being deprived. The cycle continues to build up."
Place the above in the context of your sexual relationship. Would it be fair to say that since you've been hanging out with us here, you've moved from the 'Unhealthy' state to at least the "Average' state? Still restless and unhappy, but no longer 'numb'?
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
The above also stuck out for me when I read it yesterday. Not only does it apply to my sexual relationship (which was basically non-existent for 8 years - once a month at best), but it also applies to me being a SAHM. I'm a little bit stuck right now... and restless.
Yes, since I've been hanging out here, I don't feel so alone as a SSW, and I don't feel so alone in general because our virtual community is always checking in on each other. I hate to liken it a pacifier, but it does have that quality at times. Coming here relieves my need to express, vent, inquire for advice, and connect with people who understand. Most people in my face-to-face life don't have (or don't care to discuss if they do have) a situation like mine.
Interestingly, I got to thinking about my own situation the other day, and it occurred to me that the last year has been probably my most mentally stable ever. Given that less than 3 years ago I saw myself as effectively defined by my sex-starved marriage and alternated between mild depression and contemplating self-destructive behaviours, that is a very big deal to me. And in terms of dealing with all kinds of personal challenges, last year was also my happiest.
That year-long period coincided with me starting to post regularly here - but its not a coincidence.
I think the importance of ventilating these important life issues in a safe supportive place (and getting to help others, pick up inspiring tips from others) cannot be underestimated.
The interaction here has been invaluable to me in crystallising a lot of my thoughts, feelings and beliefs about life. Telling others what you think of their particular situation has the effect of confirming to you in turn who you really are.
Bagheera (affirm your wife, meet her needs) and DQ (talk about sex directly, just take her) have been a big help to me. I'd like to think I've been of some help to others as well.
So my point is - your attitude and therefore your situation has already improved since you first started here. Keep up the reading and the posting, it removes your fear of dealing with your own issues and the issues in your marriage, and is therefore an important part of your personal growth.
(We cannot expect our spouses to face their fears and issues unless we are doing the same.)
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
Thank you for your encouragement. You know, I hadn't noticed that my attitude has improved much, but I have noticed that my emotional state has stabilized. I am definitely happier and crying less. So, a galaxy-sized THANKS to you and all of the people who post advice and their stories. This has been one of the most important phases of personal growth in my life. The impact of you fine people and my gratitude to you all is difficult to match with mere words.
S&A, I have to mention... Part of why Baggy and DQ and others make such a strong impact is because they share their own stories. They don't just give advice and evaluate and help others. They contribute their very real lives and their very real selves to the mix. There is a give and take... we're all helping each other over the proverbial wall. I haven't seen much of *you*, and I don't know much about your situation. Perhaps it is because I'm too new here. For what it's worth, please know that I am most interested in getting to know you better. The posts you make are reflective of someone who is wise and of great depth and intelligence. Of course, I respect your choice to refrain for whatever reason and I won't be *too* disappointed. Whatever you choose to contribute will always be relished!
