I was starting to feel frustration building again, so I decided to initiate another discussion with H on Friday night. Robx's recent post in our forum motivated me to spell it all out again, clearly, more blatant, once and for all.
I told H that I'm having difficulty coping with the fits and starts in our progress, and that I'm terrified of damaging our R further by saying or doing anything that will make him feel like a failure. I told him that I'm living in fear that I'll reach the end of my rope. I told him that his inaction is causing me to lose hope, and that not only does it make it very hard for me to "shake my tail feathers," but it infuriates me. I told him that our situation is now urgent, because my patience is worn thin.
H said that he wants it too, and that he is just having a hard time keeping up with life in general [sidenote: this is likely a symptom of his low testosterone]. He feels that sometimes I "build a wall" when I'm silent or preoccupied, and he takes that to mean that I don't want to be close with him. I told him that he is welcome to break through that wall at any time, because it really isn't there. I told him that I NEEDED him to break through it during those times when it seems I'm unavailable. When it seems I have a wall up, it is because I am stewing that he hasn't approached me or initiated in a long time, and I'm feeling that *once again* I have to send big loud signals, essentially initiate, in order for him to come forward.
There was much more to the talk, but the above is a basic recap. I think that I said everything that needed to be said. If he ends up a LBS one day, he will know exactly why he ended up there.
On Saturday morning, he initiated - playful, perfect. I don't know if I mentioned this in earlier posts... H has experienced intermittent ED through the years. He tends to lose his erection if we play around and change positions, especially with a condom (he needs more friction than condoms allow). Viagra works, but he doesn't have a current prescription and he really hates taking it and hasn't for a few years. Much improvement is seen with regular exercise, which he hasn't kept up with.
Well... I wanted to change positions, and since we haven't experienced the ED for a long time, I didn't even think about it. The cause was likely the combination of being off balance by our talk the night before and the condom.
He was devastated and angry with his body. I tried to explain that I don't care about that (I really, really don't) because we can have all kinds of fun without the garden variety sex scene that ends in Os through penetration. He had a hard time believing me because it is important to him to have a "successful" encounter (successful to him is defined as penetration ending in Os for both). I tried to explain that I don't always need penetration, and that the closeness alone feels so good, and that orgasms can happen in lots of ways.
We messed around in other ways, but he was so intensely driven to make me O, that I couldn't relax so I couldn't. I tried to explain that there is a better way to have sex that isn't orgasm-focused. And, If he could just relax and enjoy it without worrying about the mechanics, it would probably happen on its own anyway. He was just too frustrated to listen. He said that he knows it is because he is overweight, sedentary, and in his 40s. He is angry that his penis has "special needs" and he thinks that it should just work. He really wasn't being kind to himself.
I also mentioned that we need to try another method of birth control. I'll be looking into that today.
I am worried that H is easily discouraged by the orange cones that have to be navigated. Nevertheless, I'll continue pushing through the static.
I absolutely applaud your efforts, and in particular, your attitude about his middle-age encounters with ED. As you've already read from me, I know first hand how hard it is for both the woman and the man when erections are no longer automatic or something to be taken for granted. I'm waiting to see what happens when the weather warms up again (I suspect that like DQ's man, overheating may have an effect on me in that regard), but over the past winter, the problems that I was having last year with occasional ED have gone into complete 'remission.' So the problem can be 'fixed,' and in a realatively short amount of time (several weeks to a few months) if the two of you tackle it early and with the right attitudes.
As the wife, your attitude is SPOT ON what it needs to be right now. Thank you!
Your husband, on the other hand, is still reeling from the blow to his masculinity, and letting himself get caught up in performance anxiety. What's worse, this is one of those problems that is self-perpetuating: the more he worries about it, the more likely it is to occur. Speaking from personal experience, that -really is- a vicious circle that is hard to get untangled from.
Which would be all chapters up to Section that begins addressing specific sexual problems, and from there, the chapter specific to ED. I know that I sound like a broken record in recommending that book, but it is quite good at giving men a REALISTIC view of their own sexual equipment and sexuality, rather than the myths and unattainable standards that nearly all men are held up to --> by themselves, their peers, and, often, their wives.
(2) If he's not already, get him to start taking a good quality, men's multi-vitamin supplement each day, and then add to that a specific Zinc & Magnesium supplement. Quoting from this website on Testosterone Boosting Supplements: "Studies have shown that supplementing with 30mg of Zinc and 450mg of Magnesium per day can elevate testosterone levels up to 30%" (believe at your own risk). I've tried it, and although it took a week or two initially, I have had some 'success' just with s simple, over the counter Zinc-Magnesium supplement, without going to any of the fancier and more expensive supposed 'Testosterone Supplements.' I'll admit that it may be entirely placebo effect, but there has also been a noticeable increase (or restoration) in the number of spontaneous and nocturnal erections. Put this in the 'potentially helpful, but harmless' catagory, as long as he doesn't go overboard or get silly with it.
That said, however, the kind of ED that he is experiencing is 80-90% Mental. During a particular sexual encounter, it may start with the physical, such as lack of adequate stimulation, leading to loss of arousal, but from there it QUICLY snowballs into performance anixiety and further loss of arousal.
As I've written before, his being able to RELAX and get back into the enjoyment of the moment, the enjoyment of the connection with you is absolutely key. It is hard to do, especially with some worry or fear in the back of his head -- and takes practice and patience to overcome.
For me, it's taken over a year of working with our therapist to finally have the -occasional- sexual encounter where I can shed all of my worries about her enjoyment, my performance, and the like, and truly just let go and live in that moment, letting my passion take me (and us) where it will. Such encounters are occurring more frequently now, but it has required a complete paradyne shift on my part -- not easy stuff.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Lucky, that sounds great! It sounds like you both touched upon several different areas of the whole topic which needed to be addressed (again).
The one thing I don't think you said in your post was, did you make him understand that you would eventually be a WAW? You hinted at it, but did you really make it known? I am sorry to beat that drum again, but I just think it is important in everyone's sitch, precisely because I *should have* made it that clear to my ex-h ... so I know the price to be paid of not making it clear.
But as for your encounter, I just wanted to say (you may not have read this in another post of mine) that my guy has the usual, for his age, loss of erection at certain times, too. But we treat it as a non-issue and it really is a non-issue. However, yes, the condoms are something you really should find a replacement for because it is just so much easier for them (at this age) to maintain the erection without one. But my point here is that - basically, if we change positions, I know that I either have to do it really quickly, or we have to get him started up again. So just knowing and expecting it really helps us. Because that way, there is truly no disappointment on either of our sides. He has taught me well that he needs continual stimulation or we'll lose it, BUT...that it it is easier to get it going again with the right amount of sexy and effort.
If Mr. Lucky can come to a place of acceptance, like Bagheera is saying, it will help him so much! Because I know that it is because of my man's knowledge and understanding of his own body that keeps him grounded and feeling secure when there is erection loss. He knows his body very well and knows what it can and won't do, so he has taught me how to get him back in the groove when necessary. And he knows not to feel like a failure because he isn't one....temporary loss of erection doesn't mean the end of the sexual encounter. Usually the erection is only "half" lost and comes back within a few moments (and its sometimes nice for me to have a break, too). I know Mr. Lucky can get to this place too (but again, the condoms make it much more difficult).
I'm happy you had that talk, and happy he initiated, woo hoo!
You are on the right track, girl.
Oh and hey, I wanted to say, you didn't say it out right but implied that you do have O's from intercourse alone. If that is the case, you and Mr. Lucky need to understand how LUCKY you both really are! I'm totally jealous and I doubt I will ever have an O from intercourse alone. You really ARE a Lucky Girl!
Thank you for your words of approval and encouragement. It means so much to me. TRULY!!
I ordered The New Male Sexuality, and I look forward to reading it and to sharing it with H.
I have a feeling that H needs to find a way to be more selfish in lovemaking (the exact opposite of what a guy who is extremely concerned with being nice would have the inclination to do) in order to be more present in the connection and overcome the mental component that contributes to his loss of erection.
I hope that he reads TNMS and PM so that he can learn from "the authorities" rather than through trial and error with me. Sometimes I wish he were participating in this forum because he would benefit so much from it.
Thanks again, Baggy. I hope you and Mrs. Baggy are doing well.
The one thing I don't think you said in your post was, did you make him understand that you would eventually be a WAW? You hinted at it, but did you really make it known? I am sorry to beat that drum again, but I just think it is important in everyone's sitch, precisely because I *should have* made it that clear to my ex-h ... so I know the price to be paid of not making it clear.
Yes, I clearly stated what was at stake. That the reason I needed to hash it out again, despite my fear of making him feel like a failure, was to be sure that he had a very clear understanding of where I stand. I told him that I'm fighting very hard to stay committed to our M when he isn't working with me, and that I had to be sure that he understood that so that he wouldn't be all "shock and awe" if I ever left. There was much more, and I made sure to reiterate my point in several ways so that it got through loud and clear.
He absolutely understands that coasting or putting me on a shelf is not going to be OK. My actions have to support those words. I can't pretend I'm OK when I'm in anguish ever again. And, I have to maintain a constructive way of delivering my messages to him.
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
But as for your encounter, I just wanted to say (you may not have read this in another post of mine) that my guy has the usual, for his age, loss of erection at certain times, too. But we treat it as a non-issue and it really is a non-issue. However, yes, the condoms are something you really should find a replacement for because it is just so much easier for them (at this age) to maintain the erection without one. But my point here is that - basically, if we change positions, I know that I either have to do it really quickly, or we have to get him started up again. So just knowing and expecting it really helps us. Because that way, there is truly no disappointment on either of our sides. He has taught me well that he needs continual stimulation or we'll lose it, BUT...that it it is easier to get it going again with the right amount of sexy and effort.
If Mr. Lucky can come to a place of acceptance, like Bagheera is saying, it will help him so much! Because I know that it is because of my man's knowledge and understanding of his own body that keeps him grounded and feeling secure when there is erection loss. He knows his body very well and knows what it can and won't do, so he has taught me how to get him back in the groove when necessary. And he knows not to feel like a failure because he isn't one....temporary loss of erection doesn't mean the end of the sexual encounter. Usually the erection is only "half" lost and comes back within a few moments (and its sometimes nice for me to have a break, too). I know Mr. Lucky can get to this place too (but again, the condoms make it much more difficult).
This is helpful advice. Thank you for sharing about Mr. DQ. It sounds like our men have a very similar pattern. I caught on (without him guiding me, by the way... I wish it weren't such a guessing game) that he needed constant stimulation, and I tried to do that in between changes, but I learned that the condom was just a huge barrier and he needed skin-to-skin, high friction contact. I get it now and will know what to do better in the future. This constant, high-friction stimulation is what he needs, and what makes him angry with his ["special needs"] body. I tried to get him to see how his self-loathing was not going to do him any good, but in that moment, though I was the only person around, I was the wrong person to give him handy advice.
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
I'm happy you had that talk, and happy he initiated, woo hoo!
You are on the right track, girl.
THANK YOU!!! To think... If I had found this board 8 years ago...
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
Oh and hey, I wanted to say, you didn't say it out right but implied that you do have O's from intercourse alone. If that is the case, you and Mr. Lucky need to understand how LUCKY you both really are! I'm totally jealous and I doubt I will ever have an O from intercourse alone. You really ARE a Lucky Girl!
Is that why you picked your screen name?!?
DQ
OK - For those of you who hate TMI, please stop reading here. The reason that I can O from intercourse alone is because I learned to masturbate when I was 10 from my GF. She demonstrated the hump/grind technique, which is the first way I ever experienced an O (I'll never forget that one). So, with intermittent bumping/grinding against my pelvis and clit, I can easily O. Since I had the baby, for some reason, my G spot seems to be more sensitive and/or easy to reach(?) so now I can also O just by using my finger, and during sex I don't even have to grind too much because just thrusting stimulates it. Of course, my head has to be in the right place for an O to occur, too. I can usually tell when it is just peeking within sight, and I can mentally go toward it to grasp it. I don't know it that makes sense.
My ability to O has been honed through years of practice during masturbation. Since that is easy for me (a blessing that I am grateful for), I can focus on our connection and other aspects of lovemaking with H.
People used to try to tell me how sex gets better and better with age. I never understood until now how the combination of mature exploration, studying the difference between mechanics and psychology, and possible bodily changes really do bring sexuality to a new plane.
Dang how I envy you...and wish I had learned to O that way when I was young. I do however have dreams in which I can O from just thrusting and light mashing, and I have always realized that I could potentially bring this ability into my waking life with the right amount of practice etc....but it is still a ways off in my future at this point. But I hope you do realize how LUCKY you really are for this blessing....because most women are spending their time figuring out how to have O's, let alone have them during intercourse.
Take heart for the things that give you an upper hand in the area of sexuality, Lucky! I have a few as well and I never knew the power they held until now....its great to have that type of sexual power. The more you are aware of it, the better you can use it!
I have a feeling that H needs to find a way to be more selfish in lovemaking (the exact opposite of what a guy who is extremely concerned with being nice would have the inclination to do) in order to be more present in the connection and overcome the mental component that contributes to his loss of erection.
Again, absolutely spot on -- and VERY difficult for a 'well trained' Nice Guy to do. It goes against *everything* you were brought up to think about how a woman should be treated, both inside and outside of the bedroom. Additionally, raw, primal, unbridled male sexually is -scary-, particulary to a Nice Guy who has been brought up to keep his male sexual urges tightly in a cage his entire life. Taking that "Tiger" out for a prowl (even on a thick, controlling lead) takes practice --> and positive feedback from your partner <-- in order to get comfortable with doing it.
You're reminding me of last Saturday morning, when I did something that is still RARE for me, reocovering Nice Guy that I am. Thanks to whatever dream I was having, I woke up partially aroused and horny for my wife, while my wife was just partially awake but definitely -not- in the mood (she isn't a morning person...). Most Saturday mornings like that, I'll massage her, touch her, and gently and gradually get her into the mood. This time, however, I simply yanked her panties off (against some protest), fondled her for my own pleasure only, and then 'took' her as I liked, and focused on riding my own 'animal' passion. The punch line is --> by the time I entered her, she was in a fully ballooned and aroused vaginal state (hard to tell on some women, but easy on her). My sexual ruthlessness -- focused on her -- was just as arousing, if not more so, than all the gentle ministrations I might have performed otherwise.
Female sexuality is so variable and complex, it's enough to make a man's (or at least a Nice Guy's) head spin around like Linda Blair's sometimes. At some point, you just have to say f@ck it, and yank her panties off....
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
YESSSSSSSS! Baggy - That's exactly it. You know, from reading my posts, you might think that I'm always in the mood, rearing to go. Oh contrare... Yanking off the panties is the only way to get a girl in the mood sometimes.
Sometimes, the massage/caress thing is seen/felt as a cue... ("Oh boy, he's gonna make his move... He's reving up... C'mon big daddy, you can do it... I suppose it's up to me to start purring so he will be brave enough to come in for the kill." Yanking off the panties is REALLY going in for the kill!
Coming from the "house of ED".... this book is another really good read. The Hardness Factor, by Steven Lamm M.D.
I know...the title sounds hokey, but it is very practical book, written by an internist, kinda funny and gives excellent (and easy) suggestions toward achieving "sexual fitness". My husband loved it and quickly read it cover to cover. Trouble is, if you only read but don't do any of the activities, nothing improves in the bedroom--DUH!!
This stuff, the "program", is really easy in my opinion. If it were me with ED and I found this "easy" way to potentially fix things with my body, I would be all over it like a duck on a junebug. But then again, I am more highly motivated.
What a happy surprise to have you visit today! I hope you're doing well(?) I wish you would post more and join the virtual party, but I understand if you don't want to.
Thanks for that tip. I will check out that book, too!
