my situation

[debra]

recap: H left for almost a year. no reason and no contact. came back mainly because of fractured releationships with our sons (23 and 18) and admitted he had been living with OW and her son basically around the corner. OW was a co-worker who made him feel good about himself. he also admitted to two other affairs, one with another co-worker and one with a woman who was my best friend at the time. he has now been home for almost 18 months. he has quit his job of 25 years (good thing, got him away from OW and the Post Office is a breeding ground for affairs, drugs and alchol)went back to school with my full support both financially and emotionally, to get his teaching degree and makes custom surfboards on the side. When he first came home, he was willing to answer all my questions and talk when I needed to although he never really apologized for the affair (s). Went thru withdrawal and second guessed his decision saying he loved her and missed her, but still he stayed. I have DB'd all along, been patient and supportive. So my dilema is this. Our relationship is good. We do things together, talk alot too each other about kids, our lives, work school, etc. but there is no sexual relationship between us. Not even kissing. Rare hugs but usually only when I ask for one.
Also, the talking about our relationship has stopped. He just will not talk to me about us at all. He just says it will be fine, dont worry. It has been 18 months and he does not understand that he is withholding from me, the loving relationship he gave to the OW and I dont understand why. His excuses range from I am still trying to find love for you (he was able to have sex with the other 2 women and says there was no love involved at all) to I am too overweight and he needs visual stimulation (the OW is younger and thin, I am 43 and overweight but working on it with the gym and my doctor because of a thyroid problem that has gotten much worse) to I cant concentrate on us right now, all my attention needs to go to my schooling so I can get done (it is fine however that I pay for it and he lives in a home I bought by myself when he was gone, sorry but I am getting bitter). I have tried intiating but I am told in no uncertain terms,NO. He gets the "deer in the headlights" look if I even attempt a kiss or a touch. Oh yeah after 25 years of marriage, he now tells me he does not like kissing. I just recently paid for a trip for our family to go to Hawaii for the holidays and I am feeling like I pay for things to make him happy and that is bothering me. I dont know what to do. Do I sit him down and tell him I am miserable and dont understand, do I give him an ultimatium, do I tell him to leave or do I just continue to let the Relationship continue as it is and hope that one day it changes? I do not want to settle for this relationship we now have. I have been through too much to settle for this. I have changed so much. I listen to him, I validate him, I support him unconditionally, I have forgiven the affairs, I have cut down my work hours, I do things for myself instead of asking him. I am scared to death that I am being used, maybe not intentionally but used nonetheless. It is like he is waiting for some lightening bolt to come down and strike him into wanting me again. I am scared he wont talk to me about this because he does not want to hurt me again by telling me the truth. Maybe he is the kind of man who only wants a woman with a "body" and he wont settle for less especially when he knows he can have it. Did I waste 25 years of my life and am I continuing to waste it? I am having trouble dealing with the patience vs. door mat thing. I would appreciate any thoughts you all might have.

[Corri]

Uh..I don't mean to sound so blunt and crass, but I think you are being used. It seems to me you have some real boundary issues with your H...you accommodate, accommodate, accommodate...and allow him to call the shots. I believe you have been more than generous with him in the name of keeping your marriage together, and I applaud your efforts.

But if I were you, I'd kick his butt out of the house, turn off the financial pipeline of support, and only let him back in when you see real and true changes. That doesn't mean you have to get divorced, but gosh...draw your line in the sand. Right now, all he knows is that you want your marriage to work and seemingly will take him back no matter how he treats you. You have nothing to fix with him. You must fix your ability to draw your lines in the sand where he is concerned. You are making your situation 10 times worse because you allowing him to walk all over you.

I don't mean to sound so harsh because your intentions are so honest and sincere. But by what you have described above, I'm willing to bet he'll cheat on you again if you don't show a much stiffer backbone. That doesn't mean you have to be cruel or mean...just means you are crystal clear on what you will and won't take.

I hope this helps...just my opinion, of course.

Corri

[debra]

I WOULD LIKE TO DRAW BOUNDARIES. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE MYSELF CLEAR BUT ALLOW HIM TO STAY, PERHAPS FOR A SPECIFIED TIME FRAME. IF I KICK HIM OUT, ALL THE WORK WE HAVE BOTH DONE WITH OUR SONS WILL BE DAMAGED. I WOULD ONLY WANT TO DO THAT IF IT WERE A FINAL DECISION, NO TURNING BACK. I KNOW MY SONS ARE BOTH ADULTS, BUT THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE WHEN THEIR DAD LEFT WAS TREMENDOUS, THEY DID NOT SEE HIM FOR ALMOST A YEAR WHILE HE WAS BUSY BEING A DAD TO SOMEONE ELES'S SON. IT HAS TAKEN ALONG TIME TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE AND I ONLY WANT TO ASK HIM TO LEAVE IF IT WILL BE PERMANENT. ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW I SHOULD/COULD SET THE TIME LINE OR BOUNDARIES BY ALLOWING HIM TO STAY? HE TRULY ISNT SUCH A ROTTEN GUY AS HIS ACTIONS DICTATE, AT LEAST HE DIDNT USED TO BE. HE WAS THE PREFECT DAD AND A GOOD HUSBAND. I REALLY THINK HE HAD A BIG TIME MLC AND USED THE WOMEN TO MAKE HIMSELF FEEL BETTER BECAUSE HE THOUGHT SO LITTLE OF HIMSELF. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM, WHAT HE DID HURT ME AND DID DAMAGE THAT WONT EVER BE REPAIRED, JUST EXPLAINING A LITTLE MORE.

[VAnot4lovers]

Debra -

I agree with Corrie that you're being taken advantage of. At the same time (and this is not meant as justification) it sounds like your H is making some significant changes in at least some areas. In regards to his schooling, how much longer does he have until he's finished, and how are his grades?

Part of the reason I ask is that I recently went back to graduate school myself. Even though I'd finished a Master's Degree ten years ago (in a related field), and this was a subject I was very much interested in and stimulated by, still it was much more stressful, challenging and time consuming this time around than I thought it would be. (Truth in Advertising: My W and I also have very different perspectives of how our relationship was working over this period of schooling, but that's another story.)

I guess my point is, it sounds in some ways as though your H is acting in many ways like a teenager -- as in, "If he were any more self-absorbed he'd have an event horizon." So maybe you should treat him like one. By this I mean, (for instance) IF he's relatively close to being finished, AND IF his grades are good, it might be worth it in the long run to support him that much longer, if you foresee additional improvements at that point. Or, if his grades are marginal, that might be a "natural" place to make your continued support conditional (hey, since my employer was paying for my schooling, if I didn't get at least B's I was on the hook for reimbursing the cost of the class!). Also, when he finishes would be a "natural" break point for him to either "shape up or ship out." So there are two relatively self-defined boundaries you could set.

Of course, you admittedly run the risk that this is his "plan," to continue to get a free ride until he's done, at which point he intends to leave regardless. Only you can decide if it's worth that risk, and/or decide how close to being done is close enough. So ponder, pray, then make the best decision you can with the information you have and stick to it.

[debra]

H has about 18 months of schooling left and then 6 months more for testing and student teaching i would assume before he is gainfully employed. I am deathly afraid at the end of all of this he is going to sit me down and say "I tried but I just cant find the feelings of love for you". all because I am not thin enough for him? he can love a body but not a person? Looking back I agreed to this situation to get him out of the Post Office and the environment there and the OW, but probably shouldnt have done this. I have made things too easy for him and I get nothing in return except a really nice roommate and my sons have their father back. Either decision I make, he wins. He can stay and get a free ride and his degree without having to be a husband really or he can go and most likely go right back to OW, who by the way would not support him through school, she wants money. Either decision I make I lose, either I continue feeling used or I ask him to leave and lose the chance that maybe things could eventually turn around, although at this point it seems I would have to lose 60 lbs to make that happen. I just dont know how to make a decision like this. Will I wake up one day and just know. I wish I could pray, but I have been having trouble for the last several years believing he even exisits.

[VAnot4lovers]

Debra --

From what you said, it sounds like you've got a two year window before H is ready to rejoin the "real" world and either stays or drops a bomb and leaves. With that in mind, a couple of other things occur to me. I'm guessing that if he were working full time in a typical job, he'd be gone doing that 9-10 hours M-F, and most free time would be evenings and weekends. Does that same pattern apply to his school? How much time does he have left after homework, etc? I guess what I'm getting at is, how "fixed" is his schedule, and how full is it? Going back to the analogy with my employer-sponsored schooling, I was responsible for doing well; that was my "job" for that period. During breaks, I was expected to be back in the office earning my salary. So, find ways to put him to work; adapt it to his realistic workload, but he needs to start doing something to earn his keep. And anything you can get him to do to contribute to the joint needs, even if it's pulling weeds along the driveway, pulls him that much more back into the marriage.

That window also gives you an opportunity to work on yourself. I certainly don't want to come across as harsh or unsympathetic, but it sounds like you've been so invested in him and trying to preserve your marriage that the "you" has gotten lost. So it seems to me that you need to take a deep breath and decide where you want to be at that point, regardless: because if nothing changes and he does leave, you'll still be alone, lonely, and overweight. How much better to have a wider circle of friends who want you around and to be back in shape? In other words -- to pick one aspect as an example -- find a diet (in the broad sense) and exercise program that works for you and lose those 60 pounds, but do it for yourself!!

Not coincidentally, as you do more to rejoin the world of the living yourself, you'll probably be more attractive to your husband to boot; and if not, it's his loss. If he's smart, though, he'll realize that much more how much he has to lose. I hope this isn't coming across as flippant or simplistic, because I know it's difficult, scary, and will involve a lot of work. If nothing else, you'll feel better about yourself, and you may find new ways of connecting with your husband -- for example, having him join your bird-watching excursions (as one possible interest) or having him walk with you as part of your exercise program.

A book I'd recommend (you may be able to find it at your library) is "The Color Code" by Taylor Hartman. It's a simple but very useful scheme for breaking out people's behavior patterns and needs based on which "color" they are: it sounds to me like your husband's a "white."

Finally, on the overweight thing -- I think I'm probably a fairly typical, HD guy. If I see a woman on the street who's 5'6" and ~190 pounds, I'm probably not going to look twice. BUT, that's also where my wife is right now, and I look a lot. While I admittedly wish she was at 135 like she was when we got married, she still turns me on. So unless you're truly approaching spherical (and probably even then), my guess is your husband could get interested if he was motivated to. Other than what I've said above, I'm not sure how you bring that about, but I am sure that it's well within the realm of possibility. I don't know if all this helps, but I hope so.