Situation in a nut shell -- married 18 1/2 years, three kids, W is LD and has health problems. Sex life, never satisfying from my perspective, got worse in major way with her illness ~ 4 years ago and really hit the skids ~ 18 months ago when she went on SSRI for depression.
I feel she has always had body image problems: she said she was "fat and unattractive" (at 5'6" and 135#) even in college where she had, on average, a date or request for one virtually every weekend, and frequently two. When she got sick in '99, steroids for asthma added ~ 25-30 pounds in a matter of weeks, and she is now up to ~180 and continuing to creep up. I have kept telling her that her weight isn't an issue for me (yes, I would like to see her slim down, but honestly as much for the overall health benefits as to look better), but after constantly hearing how "fat and ugly" she is for the last several years I'm afraid I'm going to start agreeing with her before long.
We had a major blowup about three weeks ago, and while most of her complaints about how "nothing is ever enough" for me and that she has physical limitations that she can't do anything about, she added (for the first time) that "every time, it hurts." If this is the case, I don't know why she's never told me before, especially as she doesn't seem to hold anything back when she gets worked up.
Still, the upshot of all this is that I'm considering contacting her doctor -- taken together, this piece of information, along with a couple of other things I'll get to in a minute, seem to me to be things the Dr should be aware of (and may be able to do something for). But, I know her well enough to be certain that this is not something she'd tell the doctor on her own. I also wonder if or to what extent there are hormone issues on this; when we do make love, it's almost always at exactly the same point in her menstrual cycle. On a previous thread, one response suggested she may be going into perimenopause (she just turned 39); I think it may be something the doctor might want to evaluate, and again, it's not something my wife will bring up. I also know that there are some natural supplements that help reduce some of these types of symptoms, but with the various meds she's on the doctor would need to approve.
Despite my wife's verbal expressions of a desire to lose weight, she isn't changing her eating habits and doesn't really exercise. Recently, I've also found information on a medically-supervised weight loss program that includes serotonin supplementation, which should help with the depression also, but I know we'd both want to hear what her doctor would have to say before considering it.
So it seems to me that there are several good reasons to contact her doctor, who by the way is very good. Add to those reasons the fact that she is out of town for another week because she's helping her folks through some of their health problems right now. My W is also scheduled for a follow-up visit with her doctor a few days after she gets back.
I think her Dr. (if she wanted to) could introduce most or all of these subjects into her exam fairly effortlessly -- or might just tell me to go "pound sand," which I could also live with. But, despite what seem to me to be valid reasons, I can see my W going ballistic if she perceives my communications with her Dr. as "invading her privacy." We have enough tension without throwing gasoline on the fire. Frankly, I'm gun-shy and don't know which way to jump. What do you think? Thanks!
HERE is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, behind Christopher Robin...sometimes he feels that there really is another way [of coming downstairs], if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it.
What would be her response to you telling her you are going to call her Dr. or better yet, if she has an appointment soon tell her that you are going to accompany her to her next appointment to be sure that the Dr. is aware of all the needs to be known.
She probably would feel that is was an invasion of privacy but if you take the other route it would come across more as concern for her than being sneeky and going behind her back. Have you discussed all the things with her that you have posted about here? If so, then you are genuinely concerned and as her husband have every right to make sure she is cared for to the fullest extent. I think what I would do would be to talk to her about these things and then tell her you will be going to the next appointment. Gently tell you that you are forcing the issue because you are concerned about her and wish to talk to her Dr. face to face to make sure all the bases are being covered.
I wouldn't make the lack of sex drive the main issue though. It really could be all the other problems she is having that is causing a problem in that area so stay focused on those things. Good luck! Cathy
Let me try to answer some of the questions you posted back.
Quote: What would be her response to you telling her you are going to call her Dr...[or] that you are going to accompany her to her next appointment...
Based on past experience she'd get very upset if I told her I was going to talk to her Dr. It's both her "privacy" and my disrespect because "I don't trust her to take care of herself." I do respect her; still, that doesn't change the many instances where she doesn't take care of herself. On the other hand, I've been along with her on several other appointments, and she is extremely reluctant to raise any subject regarding sex, certainly not in any level of detail, and makes it quite clear that any additions by me are equally unwelcome. Even when she was going to start the antidepressants, the Dr. was the one to raise the side effect issue, which frankly didn't appear to bother my wife a bit.
Also, during the last argument on this, she told me "If I can't talk to you about this (sex), I'm sure not going to talk to anyone else about it." Other, similar statements in several contexts make it clear to me that outside "help" is unwelcome and not something she's willing to consider. As a point of reference, I first thought that she might (at least periodically) be clinically depressed about ten years ago. I even (with her reluctant consent) got a referral for her to be seen, but she kept putting it off until we moved. She didn't raise the issue with a Dr. after that, either; I actually did at one of her appointments, and she was upset with me at the time. Now at least the depression seems relatively under control, but there's still no desire.
Returning to the top of the last paragraph -- even though she started that section of her eruption with "If I can't talk to you about this..." she isn't willing to talk to me about it. If I try to "Do a 180" and not say a word (which I have tried, literally going for for multiple years on some sub-issues), she's perfectly content to let the issue lie. If I do try to raise the issue, it's "the only thing [I] ever want to talk about." Then she changes the subject by making personal attacks about my failings in other areas (yes, I'm trying, but I'm certainly not perfect) and having learned over the course of 18 years which buttons to push, eventually succeeds. Further, if I can't remember "details" and "specific examples," then obviously it couldn't have been a big deal, but if I can, then I'm "keeping score" and "dredging up stuff from the past to throw in [her] face." So I lose either way.
With her insecurities, she tends to be very insistent on holding me close when we go to bed. Unfortunately, she's insistent right after she falls asleep. So she cuddles, lays on top of me, squirms to get comfortable, etc. for a half hour or so until she feels secure, and then rolls over to her side of the bed. Intellectually I ought to feel happy that this actually does make her feel secure. But I'm so physically aroused by this point that I could scream. Naturally she's made it very plain that "trying to start something" once she's asleep is unacceptable. At the same time, if I don't let her do this I'm rejecting her. So night after night I lie there until after 1:00 am before I can relax enough to fall asleep, before trying to pry myself back out of bed around 5:00 to start getting ready for work. And then she complains that I'm always tired and grumpy! Of course, if I find reasons to go to bed before or after her, then she accuses me of "being distant" and "avoiding" her. And what woman could have any desire for a man who doesn't want to be around her? So I lose again.
I love my wife with all my heart, and still cannot conceive of considering a divorce (BTW, the only time that "option" has been raised, she raised it, and it was over sex). I'm also in a lot of pain. I just don't know how I'm supposed to communicate when I can't talk to her about it (this includes writing, which I've also tried and been crucified for). I don't see any other way to break out of this pattern without some kind of third-party involvement, which she's essentially ruled out. So that's why I'm considering "being sneeky and going behind her back." If you (or anyone else) has another option, I'd be grateful to hear it.
Finally, you seem to suggest that I should concentrate on dealing with the other physical issues. Rest assured that I am doing everything I can in that area as well. There seems to be an unspoken subtext to the statement, though, which is something like "...and then the sexual issues can resolve themselves." I wish I could believe that, but it certainly hasn't been my experience. Still, thanks for caring; I really do appreciate it.
HERE is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, behind Christopher Robin...sometimes he feels that there really is another way [of coming downstairs], if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it.
Man, this is EXACTLY what I have been dealing with! All this about not being able to even mention the sex issue and the “cuddle until she falls alseep, then lay there for a few hours with your heart pounding and mind reeling”.
The only conclusion that I can come to so far is that there is no conclusion. Live in the pain of rejection by the one that you’ve given your heart, soul and body to. This situation is really getting to me. I feel sick to my stomach. My wife just told me I was shallow and barbaric to want sex. What can you say to that?
Somehow really, the only thing I can do is wait indefinitely, at her mercy, at the whims of her hormonal balance, for some miracle to change her heart.
I've thought about contacting my wife's doctor regarding this issue but I am afraid that even a suggestion or a question from him would be traced back to me. Even if the doctor didn't tell her I had concerns she would just assume that I was meddling. Her mindset has become so warped that no matter who would tell her that she needed to consider this issue (including her doctor, best friends, father or mother, sister, whatever) she will not seek help for our relationship. Yet she claims that she loves me dearly, more than I love her. This is so bizarre. I don't know what to make of it anymore. She is in major denial.
I know I’m supposed to be working on my attitude and trying to find ways of being happy without a “relationship” but I’m finding it painfully out of reach. I would do anything for her to love me again. After a decade and a half I still feel butterflies when I see her walking towards me. Crazy. How can I be so in love with someone that causes me so much pain?
Have you seen the thread that Corrie set up for you? I expect I'll keep checking it myself. I've skimmed over your "Jekyl & Hyde" thread and there is an eerie similarity. BTW, the libido-lowering drug route only partially works (I've tried it); yes, you can get to sleep faster, but it doesn't seem to help the emotional component -- which at least for me is really the larger issue at this point. And on the rare occasion she actually feels like doing something, you may not be able to get all the way there yourself. Of course, when that happened to me, my wife's response was "Don't worry; it's no big deal." From her point of view, she was absolutely correct.
HERE is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, behind Christopher Robin...sometimes he feels that there really is another way [of coming downstairs], if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it.
