Don't look back

[cz946]

Ok, its been a long time since my last post, and to tell you the truth I have been away from this site for awhile. My D was final Sep 18. I think it was the hardest day of my life. This was the first holiday I have spent with out w in 13 years. The good thing is I spent most of the two weeks with D5, but I could tell I was really depressed. Lack of sleep, lazy, just kind of blah. So I came back for some inspiration. It worked. Reading the post from others helps me get through the day.

So an update. Been divorced since Sept 18. Have joint custody of d5. Have regular communication with XW. At least a txt or phone call every 2days. Have went to dinner several times and always end up taking about R. Doesn't get heated, just the wish things were different, if I could change things, etc... She always reiterates, that she will always love me, JNILWM line. For the most part we get along really well, but I have had a few backslides as well.

For instance a month or so ago, I am taking d5 to dinner, and we driver by the local bowling alley. D5 says " that the place momma and that guy in his two daughter. His name is Mark like uncle Mark." Here comes the anger. I call her and tell her nice that I hear about it from d5 and nice you are already taking her around other men. I instantly think its the guy she works with, turns out it a different guy. We talk for a few minutes and she tells me there were a group of friends not just them. I don't believe this. But anyway I flew off the handle, and shes right. She really doesn't have to tell me anything we are D.

There are other examples as well. I will disclose them later.
I guess the point of this post is that I have decided this weekend that there is no looking back now! I have been contantly going back looking for excuses, dwelling on the past, picking her brain everytime I see her.

Don't get me wrong, its full steam ahead try to reconcile the M. Just have to work on being the new and improved me. Like others, still hopeful and whitney, I am a way better father now than before. XW recognizes this and tells me all the time. I am in better shape than I been in years. Spend six days a week in the gym. No money for anything else. So I am thinking, I will treat my XW like I just met her. What I mean is, if she tells me something that upsets me. I wont let her know. I will just file it away and chaulk it up to her built in anger.

She has been telling me all along that she wants to be my friend, and she is guarded with me because she doesn't want to hurt me anynore, cause she knows I want more. of course I do, but I just realized if I am not willing to just be friends and stop pushing I may do more damage. Besides the better friends we become the more contact.

So I am not going to look back onl;y forward. I will post again later. I want to get some opinions on the advise from others, family and friends, etc.. I am taking my d5 swimming now.

One more interesting thing, she told me this Friday during dinner. That she divorced me, because she thought I was going to abandon her first.


Keep the faith!!
Thanks
CZ
me: 34
XW: 29
D: 5
T: 13
M:9
Dday: Sep 18, 08
joint legal and physical custody of child

[still hopeful]

CZ,

I am honored that I am the first one to respond on your thread. The first piece of advice is to post here often, as I find it therapeutic to 'talk' about my thoughts and feelings that surround my sitch and those that don't.

You are not alone here. All of us here have hope: hope to reconcile, hope to learn from our pasts, hope to heal, hope to grow, hope to move on on way or the other in a happy, healthy and whole way.

We have many similarities in our situations. My D was final on July 11, 2007. I thought that I would feel relieved that it was all over when that day came, but I was overwhelmed by a wet blanket of sadness, emptiness, loneliness...failure.

I understand that I am not to blame alone for the demise of our M over time. We both contributed equally. We both lacked the necessary experience in healthy relationships, in communicating honestly, in being absolutely committed to the success of our above all else except our devotion to our God. I certainly see my part in that mess that was my M, but I am pretty certain that she does not yet see hers. About that, I can do nothing ...nothing except continue to work on improving me, that is.

I will also say that my biggest 'mistake', as I see it, is that I didn't force movement in my sitch sooner. XW told me that she wanted for us to be friends after the D and I told her that we would NEVER be friends. When she asked why, I told her that there was no room in that stable because it was filled with all of her old ex-BFs and being her husband, not only was there not any available room for me...we were married and that's a bit different than her other relationships. I don't think she really understood and I, in my wussy, backsliding way, have given her the impression that I am her GF/emotional tampon that she can bleed all of the emotion out of her 'stuff' with. My bad. Working to change that behavior now, 3 years into it, but working on the change nonetheless. As my friend, frank_D, told me, I am practicing NEW behavior with my XW and I should not be too hard on myself if I'm not practicing it perfectly right now...so I won't.

With our most recent talks and time together, I do easily get sucked in by pull of my XW's 'XW-itational' (similar to the gravitational pull of the sun on its orbiting planets). I get pulled into orbiting her and forgetting my goal of reconciling with her as her husband, not as her friend or her 'gofer.' Luckily, being her keeps me grounded and reminded of why I came here initially and why I return. I return because my journey is not yet finished.

Right now, I see hope for reconciling my M is warranted. I spent the first 2-1/2 years with XW telling me that there was NO hope and that one person couldn't save a M. I told her that I believed differently. What I don't see is her efforts to change herself because she has never really been in danger of feeling the effects of divorce because I keep showing up as her knight in shining armor (not too smart) and also because she hasn't really faced a really traumatic situation (her good fortune) since we split to necessitate her looking critically at herself (past and present), seeing a problem in herself or her life that necessitated changes in her, and since none of that has happened she hasn't made any efforts learn, grow and change to better herself.

Today, I fear that XW may come to me and say that she truly wants the opportunity to reconcile our M. Very early on in my sitch frank_D reminded me that I am not without power in our R. He told me that if I kept up my DB/reconciliation efforts and continued to grow and improve myself, I may, in fact, have XW come back to me and then I would be the one making the decision if that proposition was in my best interest. As I said above, I don't know if it is because she behaves in substantially the same way and I am not certain that without her SEEING the need to change and making a concerted effort to make those changes, she will NOT. And if she doesn't, I don't know how I will feel if given the opportunity to work on reconciling with a woman whose flaws are known to me. Can I live with those flaws that were previously such a challenge to stomach? I'd like to think so, but I don't know. I know that my communication skills and my willingness to speak honestly about my needs with her have improved dramatically, but I don't know.

Time will tell:
(1) if I ever get that chance,
(2) if she SEES the need to change,
(3) if she voices the desire to make those changes and works on effecting them,
(4) if she will voice her desires for the traits of her husband and is willing to hear my desires for the traits of my wife,
(5) if she is willing to compromise with me,
(6) if she will put the success of our M above all else, except our R with our God,
(7) if she will place me as her 2nd priority behind our God only,
(8) if she is willing to SHOW me consistently, to the best of her ability, that I am her chosen man; her husband.

What I have learned is that reconciling is about being patient until it is time to NOT be patient. It is about pushing behind the scenes and when right, pushing up front. It is about strengthening one's spirit to withstand the inevitable gut shots one receives along the way from our noble efforts. It is about improving ourselves so that should the opportunity to reconcile arrive, we will be new to our XS; new and improved!

In time, I will show all of the above to XW. I hope that I have that opportunity to work on making our marriage what we had hoped we would make it in the beginning. And now, I pray for my God's wisdom to act appropriately to effect His will in my life, to be his obedient son, to lay down all that is keeping me from Him.

Thanks for listening.

Tom

[cz946]

Thanks for the advice still hopeful.

I have started the process of disengaging, or least I'm trying. So yesterday afternoon, I get a call from XW. I couldn't answer because I was in a meeting. Check the voice mail about an hour later, she says we need to talk about cutting d hair. XW was complaining that I was not brushing d hair right, and there were always snarls in it when she gets her. d5 hair is really long. Also complaining cause I always put it up in a pony. I have news for her, there are always snarls in it when she comes to my house too. She's 5, she plays and doesn't worry about her hair.

I didn't return her call, she called again later about 5:30, I missed the call but called her right back. She ask if I got her message. I said yes, and were not cutting her hair. I explained I was out of the detangle spray, so yes it probably was a little worse that day. But I had also just bought some more that day.
I also told her that I talked to my sister and she gave me some tips. XW didn't like this, she replied you can come to me when its about taking care of my daughter. I calmly replied, that I didn't go to anyone, I was over there and I was telling them about brushing d hair and it gets snarly. I said anyway we are not cutting her hair, everybody loves her long her. XW replied "its not everybodies decision". I said your right! It my decision and yours, and were not cutting it.

I could sense she was a little suprised by this. For the past 8 months I have agreed to anything she suggested. She said OK, we will not cut it then. Ok anything else, she said no, OK, and I ended the call.

About 20 mins later, getting ready to do d homework with her, I noticed her homework folder wasn't in her bag. She gets it on Friday and its due wednesday. So I called XW, she didn't answer, I left message. An hour goes by, so I call her work cell(d5 has to go to bed by 8:30). She answers, I'll call you back I am at dinner with my boss. I say just real quick did you forget to put d homework folder in her bag. She says it wasn't in there when I picked her up. Maybe she left it at school, I'll call you as soon as I leave dinner. I say, OK. I think she was expecting my call to be about something else, maybe cause I was to the point the first time.

She called me back later and we talked briefly about d5 maybe forgetting on purpose to bring homework folder home. I said well, I am going to talk to teacher tomorrow when I drop her off. She says I will call if you want. I reply, no I will talk to her tomorrow. She says I have some questions for her anyway, I can call if you'd like. I will will ask her your questions as well. This is a 180 for me. In the past, I would have relied on XW to do this. I could tell she was surprised again. XW then tries to tell me about her probelm at work and why her and her boss(female) went to dinner. I don't bite and quickly change the subject. I no hear to listen to her problems anymore I am disengaging, I'm not her GF(thanks still hopeful) I then remind her that this Friday is slipper day for d at school. Do you have slippers? XW, "No there at your house." The one I have are to small. I said I will buy her new ones tomorrow and send them with d. Also a 180 for me, agian XW is surprised. I say ok anything else, she say no. Ok good bye!


20 minutes later XW calls again. She ask if she can have the ipod back. I say sure its yours. I still use it everyday when I workout, but I can buy something else. She say, I just joined the GYM again, I have to do something. I so depressed these days!!!! I could tell she was trying to suck me into talking again. I think to myself, we could fix this!!!! I don't bite. I just say, no problem I'll send the ipod with d. She tells me she has a MP3 player she will load up with songs for me and give to me. (I'm thinking, so why to you need the ipod?) I say ok, how much do you want for it. I'll pay you. She tells me she doesn't want any money for it. OK, I send the ipod tomorrow. Is that it? yep. OK. I end the call.

As I sat there, I was overcome with a wave of thoughts and emotions. For the past 8 months, if she said she was depressed, I would have talked to her for as long as she needed. Reassureing her that I will always be there for her, telling her she is a great person, etc... "Being her tampon" as still hopefull puts it. Did I make a mistake, should I call her back, etc..


First thing today, I get an email from XW. D cheerleading starts Feb.. Its Wednesdays from 5:00 – 5:45. I can adjust my schedule if for some reason you can’t get her on time. They said she needs to be there 10 minutes early the first day. I know it’s your day but I plan to go to if you don’t mind because I want to see her do the class.



Maybe she senses, I am disengaging, and she is trying to pull me in? Any thoughts??

Sorry for the long post!!!

One Goal!
CZ

[still hopeful]

No need to apologize, my friend.

You are doing well. I have 3 friends on this board, including you, who are all working to disengage from XWs or S2BXWs.

We men need to do what everyone in my personal life and my DB board life have been telling me from day 1; to disengage and let go. It has been clear to me for a long time that I need to make the conscious decision to emotionally D myself from the 'old' XW, because reconciling with my 'old' XW is an impossibility.

I am have been working to improve myself and I continue growing and changing. I have not seen any demonstrable changes in my XW. Like you, even the slightest hint from her that she is softening towards me and more receptive to me causes me to ruin any changes that I had been making in my behavior towards her, with regards to emotionally distancing myself from her and just plain being a MAN again in our R.

Looking back, I see XW using her 'softening' towards me to test me. Giving in to her by always catering to her, by being her weak-willed 'husband' without her having to be my wife, works for her. As my friend, Gary, has said to me all along,

"when XW needs something, you are the first one she calls because you come running to help her like a dumb a$$. When she isn't having a difficult time, you are the first one she tosses aside. She doesn't have to change. XW's getting exactly what she wants... you to do for her as she wants, and her to simply do as she pleases without regard for you."

I would like to say that Gary is wrong, but my experiences with XW say that he is 100% correct. I know that this is MY fault, not hers, because I have allowed this ridiculous R to continue in this way. I have not commanded respect from her through behaving differently.

Yesterday, I made the commitment to ACT differently today; to stop saying that I know what I need to do and just DO IT. Today is the day. I deserve better and I have not taken the stance to demand that I receive much better from her. I have now owned the fact that I deserve better than emotional scraps from her. Since XW has not had any REAL reason to change her behavior towards me, the movement in my sitch will come from me by disengaging and NOT allowing her to 'use' me in the ways I have allowed by being a wuss.

So, to summarize, today I start disengaging and taking care of me and my needs. Today I put my needs and my children's needs ahead of XW's needs. I won't drop XW by being a jerk to her, I will simply prioritize her in MY life where she belongs, which is NOT ahead of me. Today I stop making decisions on what I think her reactions/feelings will be. Today I begin respecting myself and living MY life for ME.

Thank you to phoenixdeux for telling me that letting go does not mean giving up, it simply means to stop pining for her and to start seeing her as my EX-wife, not my W.

Thank you to frank_D for reminding me what I already know, that successful reconciliation with the 'old' XW is an impossibility. Successful reconciliation is only a possibility with the 'new and improved' XW, and even then, should she wish to work on reconciling, it is MY decision. I have to decide whether she is worthy of another chance with me; whether I can trust her again; whether I believe she truly wants to make our M work this time through her ACTIONS; whether MY needs will be met in this new R.

But that is a long way off and as frank_D illuminated for me, I am holding XW back from making the changes she needs to make to improve herself by always being a wimp for her. I have already done that while we were married and far too much during our separation and divorce. I am an adult. I am a man. I am will behave in accordance with those facts starting now. I am disengaging from her. I demand respect from her through MY behavior, NOT my words.

Thanks for listening. We'll touch bases again soon.

Tom

[runningoutoftime]

I think the disengaging is something you where you are sending the message... not that you don't want to deal with them, not that you don't want to listen and help... Gosh, you just wish you had the time! But you have a busy life and you are moving forward in it. I think that's the idea.

[cz946]

Thank you runningoutoftime,

You make a good point, we shouldn't send the message that we are not willing if only we had the time, because that could validate their reasons for leaving.

Cz

[cz946]

My update.

I am in day 4 since I initiated contact.
XW sent me a txt Sunday night. "I take it nothing was done today for Nieces bday?' I didn't see it until an hour later and responded.
Not today, she is having bday party next sunday.

Then XW called me Monday norning to tell me that her and d spent a night up north with a group of friends(OM),
and wanted to tell me instead of hearing from d. She says she was planing to drive up & back same day but we got 8 inches of snow.

I calmly responded, OK no big deal. You don't have to tell me everytime you do something. I realize you are going to live your life.
XW, "I just wanted to tell you so you don't get hurt." My response, I am working on me. I didn't like the old me.
I am working on me and trying to be the best dad I can. I said this was one of the best weekends(hung out with friends) i have had in a while.
XW, I thought you must be doing better, I haven't heard from you all weekend.

A little while later XW calls to ask if I have some missing pieces to one of d toys. Me, "yes its here."
Me, "yes its at the house."
XW, "where are you at? Maybe I can meet you."
Me, I am home, not going anywhere until I go bowling. I'll drop it off on my way.


A bit later, I call XW ask if they are going to use the toy tonight.
XW "yes, that is the plan."
Me, Ok cause if your not I will just wait and give it to you tomorrow when you drop d off.
Xw " d really want to use it."
Me, Ok I'll drop it off on my way.
Before I would drop everything at the chance to stop over and see XW in person, this part of me disengaging.


About 20 mins later, cell phone rings. Call from XW. Its d asking if I would like to eat dinner with her and XW.
I so wanted to say no, just to prove a point, but couldn't tell d no.
So we ate and had a nice conversation.

At one point, she made a comment about how desperate poeple are! refering to OM's that are chasing after her.
I Smiled inside, and thought to myself, not me. I will never show you desperation again.

I believe she can see a new confidence in me. Of course I had to squeeze in the comment a my friends wife said when she seen me this weekend.
About how good and big(muscular) I look. Working out 5 days a week payoff!

That night while bowling she sent me a TXT. Asking if I had went to the auto show. I waited about an hour and responded. No not yet!!!!
First txt in awhile that wasn't something about d.


She dropped d off early this morning. D has day off school, so I took vacation day to spend it with her. Said the usually good morning, have a great day.
Made sure I answered the door with no shirt on!!


Then about lunch time, I was on cell talking to a buddy, and XW called in. I switched over, cause I actually had a question for her.
She called to tell me she has to get my bday present from d to me. Tomorrow is my bday. I said I am actually on the other line with buddy(my BestFriend) and his
baby will be born tomorrow(enduced) on my bday. So I called him to tell him to make sure he gets a gift for is babies momma. He was totally unaware of this.
I was too when my d was born, and XW still holds it against me. Unfortunately I didn't have someone like me to tell me in advance.

So I ask XW if she thought my present suggestion "bracelet was ok. She agreed, and I said oK well I'll call you back when I get off the phone with John.
About 30 mins later I returned her call but just got VM. So I left message. Haven't heard from her yet.



Keep the faith!!
Thanks
CZ
me: 34
XW: 29
D: 5
T: 13
M:9
Dday: Sep 18, 08
joint legal and physical custody of child

[still hopeful]

You are doing well. Keep up your work. Stay focused on your plan. Control behavior and that will help you control the emotional aftermath of your sitch.

This is from my recent post elsewhere:

Today is another day of my moving forward in detaching emotionally and disengaging behaviorally from my XW. I congratulate me for not outwardly expressing my emotions to my XW. I know that soon, with my undying concerted effort, my emotions will catch up with my outward appearance of strength, calm and quiet assertiveness.

I, like you, am working on the behavioral issues. Calming the emotional issues inside will come, but come more quickly due to the behavioral experience of disengaging. For me, the mind controls the decisions to take action, and the action results in successful experience which allows us to detach emotionally. A vicious but necessary of moving forward with our lives.

The good news is that we men and women are good, not necessarily perfect, people who are striving to reconcile a failed marriage. The key here is to remind ourselves that we are NOT failures. We were simply involved in a M that failed. We must stop, sort, feel, heal and deal from what happened and what presently IS so that we will all be happy, healthy and whole.

You are amongst friends. Keep posting and reading. Keep growing and healing.

Tom

[runningoutoftime]

Hummmmm..... might have been fun to agree, and then casually mention how you've noticed the same thing, and "Wow, women are really aggressive these days..."

At one point, she made a comment about how desperate poeple are! refering to OM's that are chasing after her.
I Smiled inside, and thought to myself, not me. I will never show you desperation again.

[cz946]

Here's my update.

Made it a full two weeks without initiating contact with XW. Put I caved on Friday(1/30). Sent her an email asking how she was feeling? She has been fighting a cold and had a skin infection on her wrist. She responded and said she was doing much better.

Last Friday(1/23), she called to talk about my d report card. Ended up talking for hour or so, too long. I know. I was really missing her at this point. Somehow we ended up talking about the R and friends R as well. Bottom line I got sucked in, back slide a little.

We ended up going to dinner Monday. Had a great time. nice conversation. I was upbeat and happy. I found out that day that my little sis is moving back to town from out of state and is going to stay with me for awhile. This is good for me, help with bills, someone to hang out with, etc...

Told the XW the news. I think this is a sign to her that I am moving on. I have been resisting a roommate for a while hoping XW would come back home. I never told XW this, but she could probably tell.

Communication has been regular. She sends me a txt almost daily, usually about d. Sent me a called & txt today asking why I was driving my old truck. She seen me on the road while she was taking d to school. Did see the call until, I got to work. I called her back and we spoke briefly. She said she is going to call me back later. I had to go, cause busy at work.

Her normal thing is to ask me to meet her a d for dinner on Mondays. Well see.

Some how I need to reconnect emotionally. I believe I could start this process by asking her advise on something and truely listening. Just can't seem needy!!!!

Also just got two new books this weekend. Hold on to your nuts, and teaching yourself to flirt.

Ok, enough for now!