BH- I can understand and appreciate that you are wanting to help others by making sure that they put their efforts into a realistic perspective. But IMHO, taking the tack of approaching a newbie with the idea of informing them about the "reality of what they're dealing with" and the "odds" against their success is tremendously destructive to their morale at a time when they haven't even had a chance to begin to recover from having been kicked in the teeth and punched in the gut by their sitch.
I can only speak from my own experience when I say that, when I was a newbie and I had someone hit me on my thread with that particular reality (as a first response to my post!) before I was anywhere near ready to confront that reality for myself, that I almost threw in the towel with the attitude of, "Well, my W doesn't think much of me and this guy says I have less than no chance. He's been here an awfully long time, he must know what he's talking about. I guess it's over. Why bother hanging out here and reading a bunch of depressing sob stories?"
It's pretty hard when the wounds are fresh to overcome your own doubts about yourself and whether or not you can make your sitch better. Even harder when someone "confirms" them for you.
I was on a very precarious perch at a particularly vulnerable time. It was almost enough to make me throw up my hands, leave, and never come back. Had I given in and done that, I am convinced that I would not be in anywhere near as good a shape physically, mentally, or emotionally as I am now because of the support I have received from this community.
I didn't need to hear that particular piece of information at that time- it was damaging to me. It dissuaded me from reading other people's sitches for the longest time and learning from them at my own pace.
Again IMHO, that is what a newbie needs. To confront that particular reality at their own pace- not having someone (how ever well-intentioned) telling them this point blank.
And anyone who has been here long enough to not be considered a newbie will have put in enough effort on their own (if they really care about trying to improve their lot) in reading the threads and talking with people to come to their own conclusions, at their own pace, about that particular reality.
Heck, for all we know, there may be people out there who might CHOOSE to be ignorant of the odds against them, just because they know themselves well enough to know that they might cave at the very start if they had to confront the odds against them!
So, if the newbie doesn't need to hear it, and the veteran has, one way or another, already worked it out for themselves......
Why is it necessary to blatantly point it out for anyone?
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
Jimbo, sorry that you feel that way. I guess that is the way our society is becoming. Don't worry about the truth and honesty, just make everyone feel good. Why do I say what I do as often as I do? Because these MLCers will string you along, sometimes for years, until they get comfortable enough with thier new life to ditch you completely. I have seen this many times! Poor people here thinking they have made "progress" only to have thier hearts ripped out once thier WAS feels comfortable enough to go it alone. Answer me this Jimbo, is it better to tell someone straight in the begining, or make them have hope and encourage them to work on themselves and wait this out for years? For my money, I would rather have the facts from the start so I can make an honest apprasial of the situation.
Regardless, I know I am a better person for having gone through this, a better friend, a better father, a better son, and a better man for any woman who was going to share my life.
Honest is one thing, honesty is great. But being blunt and calling it honest, is just as bad as blowing sunshine up someones ass too.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I have to agree with the majority here...speaking of percentages.
I for one, am a better person from the things I have learned here, including how to buck the odds and becoming MORE than I ever could have imagined. I think that is true of most LBS guys.
Through this process for them. it also becomes a process for us. A two-for-one special so to speak.
What some of us learn-unfortunatly- is the ability to become paralyzed within ourselves on the boards. And we obtain so many new skills but yet forget the one that means the most.....Hope.
We forget how to trust ourselves too. Our opinions DO become jaded, and our outlook goes down the proverbial crapper and we become cynical in our interactions here.
I , for one, have no need to tell a person desperatly searching for an answer, that they should give up before they waste thier time trying.
Better or worse.....I'll be one of the 3 and let whomever sort out who wants to be the other 97......
Guys, you are missing the point of WHAT I am saying here. I am not putting anyone down for attempting to reunite with a WAS/MLCer, quite the contrary. I tried it, almost everyone on here has. What I am saying is, its a very tough thing to do and the odds are long against it. If you wish to try, or and are trying I wish you all the best and I sincerely hope you are one of the ones who are successful in your quest. I think I have a reputation on here for being kind of cold hearted and matter of fact. I can assure you that is not the case with me, in fact I hate it that everyone has had to go through this. Its tough beyond belief, what I hope to accomplish is to inform those going through this about what they face. I am sorry if that information offends some people, but it is in fact the truth. With all of that being said, I do try to assist people going through this, and with my experience the very best policy is to detach totally. This is something many people are not willing to do, what I mean by that is no contact period! Anything less than that will be taken as pursuit, controlling by the WAS. MLCers also love to try to reel you back into thier dramas, string you along, give you false hope, etc. One of the biggest mistakes in this is that people think they are making progress, but are not and it encourages them to pursuit harder, resulting in them running faster. Anyway, sorry if what I say is offensive, but I feel that I am truthful in my statements. Jack, sorry you think that bluntness is blowing sunshine up someone's ass, but I feel that if you are blunt and honest, there isn't much wiggle room, meaning that someone might not like it, but you can't be accused of lying or misleading. I sincerely do wish everyone the very best of luck in thier quest.
BH, No it not blowing sunshine, but it can be just as harmful is what I said. Blowing sunshine hurts later. Blunt honesty hurts at the outset.
There are no hard numbers here. None, and all data can be corrupt to support a position. No, I am not saying you are.
Just as there is no set one way to do this. I agree with you that in most case dettaching is the best way to go. In most cases. But not every case.
Similar circumstances for a majority here. The MLCer is a huge factor in whether or not a marriage can, dare I say should survive. But not to be overlooked is the LBS and what they do, or do not do.
I really am not butting heads with you BH. I am not trying to be antogonistic, we are both saying the same things, just in different ways, and for similar reasons.
Some people see the mountain and are determined to get to the top, for them the challenge excites them. For others they see the mountain and give up. Even though they are more than capable of getting to the top it is too much at once for them to get their head around.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Gosh, you make 40 sound like a hag...I think I look damned good for 41!!!
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
You don't. BH did. Something about women in their 40's not having a man because the men all prefer younger women.
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
