Standing on the Edge

[native]

(Why when I read what I wrote in response to someone else it seems like good advice but in my own sitch I am soooo confused?)

Amen!

If it were an event featuring my D, I wouldn't miss it. But as it is, she will leave the 'babysitting' to me if I go to this dinner. I would rather her take some responsiblity....and in this case she will miss me.....

I can say right now, I will not spend another Christmas holiday alone....

If she sends divorce papers in Aug. 09, I'll sign 'em and get on with my life. I don't mean to sound smug, but she doesn't deserve me. I would never do to her what she is doing to me.

[MsMelancoly]

Hi native, Doc has given you some good advise.

Sounds like you have had some babystreps - Bravo!!

Did you ever decide on the Christmas gift or read the Woman 101 thread??

[native]

I don't know if it is the inevitable two steps forward, one step back, or that I am just fooling myself......

Last weekend I got all kinds of signs that she is warming up and I bit the bullet and asked her out........

There was an awkward silence and rather than let her turn me down I retract my offer. Instead she goes to a bar to hear a band with some 'friends'.

Tonight I was invited to go to her uncle's surprise b'day party, but declined. I then called her to let her know that her decision to not go out with me hurt and that I was angry.

I then told her that she had seemed to be giving a lot of positive signs lately.

She explained that she had been doing things 'together' (as a family) for our D's sake, to make her feel 'secure', and that she even had enjoyed them, but no....there was no interest in reconcilliation. (I am paraphrasing here).

So it was like tearing open an old wound. At first I was afraid she might be wanting to get back together, then I put myself out there to test the waters, then I get slapped back....

My divorced friend Tim says she is likely not sure herself, but when does no mean no ? When do you take the WAS's words at face value?

I believe in the adage ' Belive only 1/2 of what they say...' but this is getting old.......

[native]

She explained that she had been doing things 'together' (as a family) for our D's sake, to make her feel 'secure', and that she even had enjoyed them, but no....there was no interest in reconcilliation. (I am paraphrasing here).

When I went to pick up D for church, W said that she could not talk freely when whe had the above conversation. I guess that D was nearby. So she wants me to call her and she will clarify.

I am really assuming this will be an amplification of 'Not Interested', but trying to remain open.

This is so painful.....

What ever happened to the notion of committment ? We had explicit discussions about this when we were together, even talked to D about it. SOMEONE PLEASE BRING MY WIFE BACK FROM PLANET X !

Sometimes, the more I hear her, the less I understand. Either this is a MLC, a personal problem on her side or a lack of communication. Perhaps I rescued her one too many times, and she wants to stand on her own two feet, to regain some of her own power which she forfeited by always being helpless. I DON'T KNOW !

[MsMelancoly]

Hi native, Sorry to hear about your set back. Try not to see it that way. First you opened the communication line, even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear. If nothing else you can thank her for being honest with you. Would she expect a thank you from you??? A 180 maybe???

I understand that you are hurt and angry. It seems many of us here are ready for the next stage & our spouses are not. Can you be content with the friends stage for now??

[Dr LOve]

Ok Native,

Here are some observations from a fellow confused husband..

Last weekend I got all kinds of signs that she is warming up and I bit the bullet and asked her out........

There was an awkward silence and rather than let her turn me down I retract my offer. Instead she goes to a bar to hear a band with some 'friends'.

Slip up #1

I would have not "retracted" my offer. If she were to say no ... oh well..
I have found that my W has reluctance to try things.. Like "going out" and after we are out she (and I) have a good time... next time let her decide. And if she says no then (no mater how hard it is) ya have to act "as if" it's her loss not yours

Slip up #2
(Now Saffie gets on my case about expressing feelings, and I do think there is a time when they need to be expressed but not this time...

Tonight I was invited to go to her uncle's surprise b'day party, but declined. I then called her to let her know that her decision to not go out with me hurt and that I was angry.

Telling her you were hurt and declining her invitations makes it sound like "well you will not play with me so I am not going to play with you"

I know it is "unfair" that we the husbands need to cater to our lost wives but that is the game we are choosing to play at the moment. In this game we need to try to make our wives at ease...telling her that it hurt you when she declined your date..(And she didn't decline you took the offer back) just makes it harder for her to agree next time.. Or next time she may agree but only because she does not want to hurt your feelings.. I don't know about you but I want my wife to come back because she wants to not just so she does not want to hurt my feelings. If that is the only reason she comes back then all we have done is set us up for another issue down the road with her being unhappy..

Don't worry about it though all we can do is just move on and learn from our mistakes..

face it buddy you and I are like rats on a maze... every time we come to a dead end we just need to back track a little and try another path..

Take care
Dr LOve

[native]

I don't know about you but I want my wife to come back because she wants to not just so she does not want to hurt my feelings.

Good point Doc. I was not sure what the best way to proceed here was. And a good point about not retracting an offer but letting W make the decision. And acting 'as if' the loss was hers....

First you opened the communication line, even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear. If nothing else you can thank her for being honest with you. Would she expect a thank you from you??

MsM, I guess the one good thing out of all this is that the communication lines are opening. (BTW, I would have liked to hear an ILY in response, but that is a bit much to hope for at the moment, I suppose.)

W and I did have a subsequent talk, which turned out quite well, regarding her behaviour over the last week or so.

Turns out she has been missing me and some aspects of our marriage. So there was more to it than she indicated at first.

Probing a bit more, I asked her about a weekend we had taken together last year in the late summer that had gone sour. We had never really been able to talk about why she had become so unhappy.

At first she explained it was because I didnt seem to want to be with her after we ML. So vague!!!!

More careful questioning and it becomes clearer that she had felt like an object, because I did not look her in the eyes and talk to her while having sex. After some meditation on this subject, I think she would have liked to have been held and reassured after sex as well.

Considering her PTSD (rape)issues this makes sense. Also some amount of monintering of her feelings during sex would be necessary in case she had a flashback (I have learned since).

After finally getting a clearer picture as to her disapointments,I expressed my regrets that I had not made her feel special and that she had felt objectified.

Told her that she and my daughter were the two most important people in the world to me.

At this point the tone of the conversation was quiet. She seemed very vulnerable. We ended it, but later I drove by her house with D to go to the store and we honked and waved as we went by, in a lighthearted way.

I guess I will stay in the peicing section for a while since W indicates some interest.

Thanks Doc, MSM, for keeping me in line!

[Dr LOve]

Hey Native,

how are ya doing today???

Doc

[native]

Thanks much for asking....

A little down. My W's cousin is living with me right now. His w left him and he was terribly hurt by that (he has 2 little girls). He is not happy with my W's choices and pretty much says it like it is to her, but not at my prompting. He's coming from his own hurt.

W however is upset with me. I believe that this is the cause, but won't know for sure until she tells me. (Or accuses me... which is likely the way in which she will address it.)

It all came to a head last night because I am going out of town today and I had wanted to eat as a family. Everything started out well enough, but I made a mistake. I suggested W talk about the beach trip to D that she had been invited to after Christmas with one of her friends at work. D told W she already knew about it. Of course I had mentioned it to D, but did not realize W had not said anything to her about it.

So W was pissed at me, acting like 'what are you trying to do, asking me to tell her this, when you already told her ?' shaking her head in disgust.

Well, it ruined the evening for me. I tried to talk about it, all she would say was there was 'something else' that was bothering her.

After talking with cousin, I think that she thinks I am prompting him to goad her.

Pretty crappy. Well I gotta get on the road.

Thanks for asking!

[Dr LOve]

Hey Native,

Glad to see you are going with the flow, Sorry about the Beach talk. "Dammed if you do dammed" if you don't right?
The cousin thing is a little tricky. It’s nice that you are helping him and nice that you and he have someone to talk to but I understand the "perception" your wife is going through.
One of my Wife’s friends was going through a divorce and that was all I could think about was "are they comparing notes?" when ever they were together. She also has another friend that is unhappily married. But in this sitch the husband is abusive. So when she is with her I think "Well she can see that I am not all that bad".
But both of these situations are my thoughts, my feelings. Nothing my wife did caused them. Just like nothing you are doing caused your wife to perceive her feelings
The only thing you can do is try to be crystal clear. I do not mean to "betray your cousins trust" but maybe sometime when you are with your wife you might mention something about how he is too "straight forward" with his thoughts. How you disagree (if you do) about some of the things he says or is doing.
You don't want to get stuck in the "friends" slump like I am with my wife but becoming friends is the first step to recovery in a marriage.

The above statement in no way reflects knowledge or wisdom. It is given by fellow husband who is trying to live and learn.....

Doc