W calls to let me know she works 12-4 today - at SIL house. Says she is only on schedule for next Fri & Sat for 4hrs each. All regulars get all the hours. Kinda screwed. I don't know what to do. More uh huhs. Cya when you pick up kids.
W calls back 30 mins later. Asks if I am going to let her do the daycare business at house. Says mother of kids wants to know & has to decide before Monday if she is going back to work. W wants to do business only for a little while but not going to tell mother. Try to find a real job in the interim.
I ask her about the daycare insurance again. I tell her the biggest concern I have is protecting myself & kids from liability. Hope you can see my point in that. [silence]
W - I understand...I just..[silence]
She is waiting for you to cave. She feels that her request is resonable and your being stubborn. I understand your point so look into my suggestion above but do not jeopardize your house over it. JMHO.
Originally Posted By: Kakatal
I ask w - Are you going to look for a full time job? You were always good with computers, data entry, clerical work. W says that she would like to get a job doing something she is comfortable doing but people are not hiring & not paying what she would need in order to pay for daycare. Doesn't know how long it will take to find such a job.
Very nice job here. Telling her what she is good at and the skills she has. Good PMA boost for her. She may not of shown it but I am sure she appriciated it.
Originally Posted By: Kakatal
W says that I can't afford to pay for daycare & keep the house so what is the benefit of her working full time? Asks if I can pay $600 or $1200 a month for daycare? I say realistically no but if I had to I'd find a way. If that meant losing the house then I lose the house.
I ask w if she can get daycare insurance if she isn't licensed? Says she doesn't know about that. Says she does not want to get licensed again, take the class, and do all that work just to watch a couple kids.
Says that I am making this hard and it doesn't have to be. No kids ever got hurt when she ran the daycare before. Guess this is my punishment for life - being repaid for the choices I am making. I'm very irritated.
I said that I have not said no to you doing daycare again in the house. W says that i haven't said no, but I haven't said yes either & I am finding one small thing to hold over her head in order to not help. Might as well just say no & be done with it.
Guilt trip again.
Originally Posted By: Kakatal
I ask w if we were already divorced, would you think this request was reasonable? W says that depends on what kind of person you are. I say that obviously not a very good one since you are divorcing me.
First mistake I heard you make in this exchange. Stop bring up the fact that she is divorcing you. Why do you want to go down this path. Saying nothing is alot better than bring up the D word.
Now you are laying the guilt trip on her. And her responce is to....
Originally Posted By: Kakatal
Then w anger starts to pour out - says that everyone tells her to just go to court & prove that she didn't make any money over past 6 years & I have so she should get spousal support; but that she won't do that since it would mean I lose the house for the kids; I haven't asked you for any money; I want the divorce & these are the consequences of that choice, this is your payback to me, you are holding this over my head. I just let her rant & finish.
Tell w that you are right, you are divorcing me. I am not indifferent or unsympathetic to your plight but you made this decision & I respect that.
W then says fine, I will just go to court Monday & file the paperwork to get money from you. Go ahead. [I don't bother pointing out to w that she already waived alimony in our mediated agreement in Aug] I tell her that I may not be able to afford the house in 2 months anyways so not going to let fear of losing house factor into this decision.
W then says she is getting too angry to talk. I will talk to you when I come to pick up the kids. I say that I would like her to not bottle up what she wants to say & let me hear it all when she comes to get the kids. W says she is done talking about this since I will never say yes.
Again I point out to w that I have not said no. She screams well what is it going to take for you to say yes. I just want there to be some insurance to protect me & the kids. W says is that all? No other last minute stipulations? I say that is all I have been asking you find out about. W says that she probably now can't get an answer to that until Monday.
W then says she is not a runaway wife. I ask her if she means a walk away wife. Yeah, whatever, from that article you gave me before [I had printed out Michelle's article on WAW & gave it to her 6 weeks ago].
She is a classic WAW whether she wants to believe it or not.
Your bringing up the D put her on tilt and into the typical WAW banter of its over, your trying to get back at me, you think I am unfeeling and cold and that I deserve what I get. Then they switch gears and its I said I don't want money from you but now I do because you are not giving me what I want.
Believe nothing that they say and only half of what they do. She will talk in negatives and never acknowledge the positives.
Originally Posted By: Kakatal
W then says we will talk when she comes to pick up kids.
Glad to 1) be able to talk over phone - helps me stay calm & not react to her 2) be able to take notes 3) access my thread for tips 4) hold my ground about the insurance issue - nonnegotiable boundary
I am 100% certain that things are going to get WORSE dealing with her as the end of the month approaches & w's bills start to come due. Hell of a day so far :-) Time to start painting!
Just stay focused and keep all emotions out of your exchanges with her. Stay the course and if she does get insurance do not back down from your agreement.
You can do this. Stay positive and don't let her negativity get to you.
Looked up daycare insurance on internet - found company w used before - stipulation is that you have to be licensed to get a policy but only costs $300.
W showed up at 12:20 to pick up kids - knocks at front door instead of coming through garage. Cut & dry - are the kids ready to go? I ask that I thought she was working - she is not today. Get kids & get their shoes on. I get copy of policy application & show w that only costs $300 but you have to be licensed. W says that she doesn't have time to wait to get licensed - 2-3 months. W starts going off about money again - how I have all the opportunity since I have the house, a job and she doesn't. How she should have fought harder at beginning to get some of the tax refund money instead of allowing it to be used to pay off credit card debt - could be using that money to live right now. Long rant that ends with her just saying I was never going to allow her to watch kids at house again - just using insurance as an excuse. I ask her if I allowed her to watch kids would she work towards getting her license again & insurance, figuring it may take 2-3 months for it to happen. W accuses me of changing midstream since she is mad. I say that is not true, that I went out of my way to find this information on insurance, that I am now using that information to propose a way for this to work out for you & you want to blame me for not making it easy.
W asked if I had ever gone to a lawyer. No, I did not have any issue with our mediated agreement so no need. Says that she can go get alimony - I tell her that she waived it in the mediated agreement. W claims that neither of us signed a notarized copy of that agreement so it is meaningless. [I tend to believe her on this - she would have checked before making such a statement] So I ask her if she is basically blackmailing me to agree to allow her to watch kids. W says that is how i did things in past with her - held it over her head until she caved.
Kept talking in front of our house, kids were getting in & out of her car. Asked her if she would come back in house to continue talking & allow kids to play inside. W didn't feel that there was anything to talk about, that what she wanted to say would piss me off, etc. I said that I wanted to hear what she had to say. W agreed & we go out back porch to sit on swing & talk. I face wife & look her in eyes almost the entire exchange.
W starts off saying that she doesn't want to talk about her feelings since I always come back with something where I say I see what you are pointing out, that I have changed & if you were to come back you would see these changes. She just wanted me to listen. I assured her that I would not say anything about R or M or changes; that all I wanted was to understand her & would listen.
W starts on long talk about money - how she cannot pay her bills, all her money is gone, should have gotten some out of me, etc. I just listened. I asked a few clarifying questions but for the most part just agreed with her.
Turned into a 2.5 hr discussion about money, how things haven't worked out for her way she thought they would, how she didn't realize how much she needs money, how unhappy she is about her financial situation - it is dominating her thoughts, making her miserable around kids, etc.
W badgered me about my spending - new clothes, weights, taking kids all over CA, wasting the tax return money to enjoy my life. I spelled out for her how 75% of that money (10k) was used to pay property taxes, insurance, unpaid bills she left & credit cards. Rest has been used to survive.
3 times she started talking about what she wanted, always prefacing it with I know you are going to get mad/hurt/angry if I tell you how I feel. Only twice did I fail keep a straight face - once was where she said someone in her family thought that she should be the one with the house & kids - that I should be the one who was forced to move out. I felt the need to point out that she is the one who had decided to divorce me, why should I be forced to leave?
W then added that she has urge to just drive away, leave. Feels trapped now because of money issues. Was trapped before, now still trapped - wants to escape. I told her that I was partly responsible for her feelings of being trapped before but do not feel any responsibility for her feelings now. Told her she was free to do as she pleased.
W wants to be free, no responsibilities. Told her that most people feel that way but life just doesn't work like that. Ask her if she regrets having kids. W says she doesn't want to say something that is going to come back up in court. I assure her I just wanted to know what she thought. W says she loves kids but should have done more reading, self awareness, to see if she was really cut out to deal with kids - wasn't aware how hard they are.
As conversation was concluding, w got all mad again. I asked her what was wrong - she just said that nothing has been solved - she still has her issues and is unhappy. Told her I understood. Then w went back to cut & dry approach, collected kids & said she will bring kids back at 8:30.
I am proud of myself - I did a great job of just sitting & listening to her. When I tried to talk & she cut me off, pointed out to her that I expected her to just listen the same way I was for her - she FINALLY started to let me finish talking, then had to add smart alec comments & facial stuff like - see, you asked me to listen so I am not voicing my disagreement with what you just said, etc. Just chuckled inside at how childish she was acting but was glad she did in fact listen.
Best I can do remembering that entire talk. Never brought up the daycare offer I made. For someone who is so desperate for money you figure that would have been mentioned. One thing I so wanted to ask her was why OM isn't giving her money?
Me/W 39/37 T/M 9/6 S 4, D 2 Bomb 7/17/08 OM confirmed 7/23/08 D Filed 7/25/08 D served 9/17/08
I like the solution you offered her about allowing her to watch the kids if she went for her license and then get insurance. Let her think on this for a little bit but make sure you have her sign an agreement stating that she will work towards her license before you allow her to watch anybody elses kids at your house.
Good job on listening and looking at her while she talked. Lots is going on in her life more than this money issue thing. It is her main concern at the moment but not her only one. Also do not take the kids comment to heart, we all feel overwhelmed at times with our kids. She is frustrated, tired and stressed.
Also get the OM out of your mind. Why he is or is not doing anything is none of your business. I am sure he is putting alot of pressure on her right about now and that is also behind the money issue. Keep listening to her and being her friend you really have no other choice right now. The alternate will get you nowhere.
Time and patience Kevin is what you need right now. I see that you are getting the hang of this DBing and understanding that keeping a cool head and checking your emotions at the door works alot better than going off the handle and engaging your W in a fight that neither one of you will win.
Take care, wish my plans for a Saturday night weren't sitting at a F-ing computer waiting for my W and D to get back from the movies. So much for a quiet dinner with my W like I wanted to do.
I like the solution you offered her about allowing her to watch the kids if she went for her license and then get insurance. Let her think on this for a little bit but make sure you have her sign an agreement stating that she will work towards her license before you allow her to watch anybody elses kids at your house.
Thing is I don't think she heard me about that. Maybe she will have time to remember that offer before she drops kids off. I had asked if she wanted to join us tomorrow - headed to San Diego Zoo. W said she had to find a job - got a feeling she quit her job today. Should I bring the offer back up or just let it lie? The mom needs her answer.
Originally Posted By: Distressed67
Good job on listening and looking at her while she talked. Lot is going on in her life more than this money issue thing. It is her main concern at the moment but not her only one. Also do not take the kids comment to heart, we all feel overwhelmed at times with our kids. She is frustrated, tired and stressed.
I know she is trying to make money the focus but her desire to escape shows she has a lot more on her mind.
One thing she said was that she thought I was trying to make things as hard on her financially so that she would have no choice but to come back. I said if that was true why did I pay off your entire credit card - I was only obligated to make payments on it. I paid it off because it was the right thing to do - you need money or access to it, I could help. She said that she thought I only did that because I was being nice hoping that she would come back. I said that I did something nice because I wanted to help a friend. Yeah I reacted like a hurt child last week but I still did what I felt was the right thing to do.
Originally Posted By: Distressed67
Also get the OM out of your mind. Why he is or is not doing anything is none of your business. I am sure he is putting a lot of pressure on her right about now and that is also behind the money issue. Keep listening to her and being her friend you really have no other choice right now. The alternate will get you nowhere.
Ok, none of my business is best way to look at OM. Just need to drop my curiosity about why w does not just ask this OM that she is planning on escaping to live with for the money she needs.
Originally Posted By: Distressed67
Time and patience Kevin is what you need right now. I see that you are getting the hang of this DBing and understanding that keeping a cool head and checking your emotions at the door works a lot better than going off the handle and engaging your W in a fight that neither one of you will win.
My desire to understand my w, to just listen to her really helped to keep emotions out of my response to what she was saying. I was glad she brought up her expectations in me just listening, not trying to solve her problems.
Originally Posted By: Distressed67
Take care, wish my plans for a Saturday night weren't sitting at a F-ing computer waiting for my W and D to get back from the movies. So much for a quiet dinner with my W like I wanted to do.
Tim
Yeah, so much for me painting my bedroom! Best laid plans... D9 is with me so we are going out to dinner instead :-)
Me/W 39/37 T/M 9/6 S 4, D 2 Bomb 7/17/08 OM confirmed 7/23/08 D Filed 7/25/08 D served 9/17/08
W just called - asks if I am in middle of painting - no. Wants to drop kids off at 7 tonight. Tell w I was going to take D9 out to dinner. Ask w if she ate yet - no. Would she like to join us & we all have dinner together. Sure. Ok, come back to house - she is at grandmothers, I will get changed & we can all go in 1 car - ok.
W then has a question. Am I obligated to turn my phone off? I say no. Said I overreacted other night because I was irritated. W says ok, cya - leaving now.
Oh Boy!
Me/W 39/37 T/M 9/6 S 4, D 2 Bomb 7/17/08 OM confirmed 7/23/08 D Filed 7/25/08 D served 9/17/08
What a miserable experience that was! Geez, w looked like she wanted to be anywhere but out with the kids & me. W just looked so miserable & unhappy. I would just smile at her, get a blank stare back & then play with kids. Went to a mexican place - her choice. They screwed up the order - no surprise there. S4 didn't want to eat - nothing new there.
No conversation whatsoever. Asked w if she just wanted to get hers to go. If that is what M will look like I want no part of it!
Got kids into my car. Talked with w outside. Told her that she looked very tired & unhappy. W just said she is drained emotionally. She is going to SIL to watch their dogs & sleep there tonight.
I ask w if she recalls the offer I made to her earlier in the day about daycare. She says no. I start to say that there are 2 scenarios.
1) Is there any insurance for unlicensed daycare in CA where you only watch 1 family? Policy I found stated you had to have a license. Maybe there is insurance for this special circumstance.
2) I am willing to allow you to do daycare at house as long as you work towards getting your license back & thus insurance as well. W made some remark about insurance easing my mind & I stated that I was not about to risk my future wages being garnished for the rest of my life because a child died in my house. That is a risk I want to mitigate.
Asked w if she had given mother an answer yet. W said mother hadn't made a firm decision about returning to work.
W said that she never got renewal paperwork from county about daycare license expiring & will try to see on Monday if something can get worked out to where she just has to renew instead of start over. Said that would solve a lot of problems.
W thanked me for dinner, said to enjoy zoo. Probably won't talk to me tomorrow. I just said your welcome & bye. Got in car & drove off.
W doesn't want to come back from financial pressures, not for kids, not because of guilt, not because others say she should, would be trapped again. All negatives - just like you said Tim. She ever going to see, consider or weigh the positives - only time will tell.
Me/W 39/37 T/M 9/6 S 4, D 2 Bomb 7/17/08 OM confirmed 7/23/08 D Filed 7/25/08 D served 9/17/08
That is a boundary that I refuse to soften...how dare she talk to OM while I and S7 are sitting right there.
Remember, women associate love and respect very closely. Don't be the doormat here.
No phone calls - it's a certain ringtone for OM. W did text someone from her car before going into restaurant - not my concern. W does not talk to OM in front of me - that got dealt with few months ago & w has respected that boundary.
Me/W 39/37 T/M 9/6 S 4, D 2 Bomb 7/17/08 OM confirmed 7/23/08 D Filed 7/25/08 D served 9/17/08
