Unconditional Love 3 (mmf)

[ACJ]

With a mom like you, I think she will be great

Thank you.

Everything came to a head last week. I had my suspicions about what was going on but didn't know how to tackle them with her. In the end I just decided to be honest and tell her what I thought. She was furious and disappeared off for hours (at night). I knew if I got too heavy handed it would all backfire on me so I played it cool and she came home. She said she doesn't want to talk about it. That's very frustrating but fine for now. She is almost like a changed child this week and much more like the D13 I had come to know and love (she has always been more affectionate than my other children). She did tell me she is ashamed of some of her actions and this is probably punishment enough.

My old H would have been mortified that I even had to have this convo with my D13. My current H would take me to court saying I was a bad mother and that he wanted custody!

[missmyfriend]

...Just catching up on friends MMF...
From personal experience..........

My GF has a D 15.

D 15 was extremely upset when my GF left her H. D 15 grades began to tumble but came around again after 6 months or so. To this day her grades ride an up and down wave.

Now on to the nuts and bolts..............

My GF misses her D as though she has died, her D is still very aloof to her mother and will visit infrequently rarely staying overnight. My GF has told me many, many times that she needs her D and would give anything to have her come and live with her. I see how bright my GF is shortly after a visit from her D.......and how low she gets hours after.

My GF thinks that this will all be better when.........

Just like IMA says.

My XW has shown a ton of interest in the kids in the last few months, I know the kids need it and I believe my XW needs it too. I do not believe the increased contact with the kids will do much in the way of her looking into herself so I take it for what it's worth......

It's good for my kids.

Billy

Thanks Billy.

Even though people have different situations, a lot of human response is similar and I can see similar things in play with my D.

It is good to hear from you and I hope life is good to you. You deserve it, my friend. Don't stay a stranger.

[missmyfriend]

I went through a lot the past week. It has almost been a month since the divorce was final. So many people have been pushing me to date, take my ring off, move on. I prayed on it quite a bit and didn't feel God was telling me to do anything. Normally, I can feel convicted toward maintaining my stand but this time I didn't feel it.

Please do not take this as counter to what I stand for and share.

I spoke to my "mentor" and to my mother about whether I should be open to dating. I miss the companionship and the closeness with someone of the fairer sex. Did I fall into a trap? Was I mistaken or given bad advice? I don't believe I was. At the same time, I am not convinced that my "stand" is over.

My mom and my "mentor" besides many well intentioned friends encouraged me to "move on". They thought it would be accepted by the children and that it may actually be good for them.

I spoke to my W (ex) after we went trick or treating with our youngest about possibly to begin dating and to share this with the kids. She said she was happy for me and thinks that it is about time. I didn't expect a different response than the one that I received. Even if she felt otherwise, her response would have been the same.

I prayed about it, spoke to another friend and decided to speak to the children. The conversation went very well and the kids were fine with it. I couldn't detect any sadness in them.

For some reason, as the day wore on I became more depressed. I considered that part of the reason is about it being a transition of sorts for me and the children. I did feel like I was shutting the door on my past and permanently closing off any chance of reconciliation in the future.

I wouldn't have changed standing for my marriage or modifying how I handled my children, with few exceptions. My W is worth every day that I prayed and hoped for her heart to soften and to return to us.

As I tried to go to bed, I felt the overwhelming sadness that I felt early on when my W left. I couldn't sleep for weeks, literally. I would get 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there.

I now find myself incredibly depressed but at the same time, I feel more clarity than I have in some time. As I said prayers with my youngest, he left out "God please help mom and send her home to us". It hurt listening to the absence of those familiar words. I asked him if he wanted to add anything and he looked sad and said no.

He asked me to pray now as we always take turns. I prayed for him and his siblings, my mom, my sister and her family, my Ws sister and her family. I then prayed for my W and asked God to protect her and guide her back to Him and to us. I said God, what ever your will is for me and this family, we are yours to command.

Do I still love her? Yes, I love her intensely. I shared that I still love her when I told her that I may start dating. I wanted her to know that my love for her has never waned. I said that I wanted her to know I wasn't holding on to her anymore.

Did I make a mistake? I don't know. Would it be better if I let things stand as they were? Possibly. In some ways, I think it may have been necessary so that my W would feel completely on her own.

For my children what does this mean? Confusion, probably. The good thing is that they are bright and they know that I have never stopped loving their mother. At this time, and I may feel differently in the morning, that is if I get some sleep. I don't want them to give up hope and to not learn to trust the Lord with all of their heart. To know that with Him nothing is impossible. Yes, my W has free will but I believe she belongs to Him and it is said that He will not stop to lead those who belong to Him until they return. Sometimes I can tell she has conviction about what she is doing is wrong. Not that she says that but that she is tormented about something and she can't express why.

No one ever said this would be easy. It is challenging every day to do what is right or to know which path we are supposed to follow. All I know is that I need to follow His path and He will protect us.

I think I will continue to stand, let the children know that I will continue the stand but not wear my wedding band and not share with my W what I am actually doing. I have felt awkward wearing my wedding ring since the divorce around my W as though I was trying to make a point and that goes against my nature and beliefs.

Instead this may give her the complete freedom she desires. The freedom of not being responsible for my heart anymore. I don't think she could handle it.

Some conflicting discussion points between my W and myself lately:

1. She still wants us to go to Disneyworld next November (around S13 bday).

I told her that I would do my best to somehow come up with my half of the money but with several other expenses I have to deal with including the fee to get the mortgage only in my name and S13 winning an award to attend a college course next summer, I don't know how.

She said that if she had to, she would put it all on a credit card. I don't know what to think of that since I thought she wanted me to go to help with the costs of taking the kids. Instead it sounds like she simply wants all of us to go. Any thoughts?

2. She is willing to pay the fee for getting the mortgage in my name. She has offered this multiple times.

3. She commented that the wallpaper should come off in the house and the walls need a good paint scheme. She said that we also need to replace the light fixtures.

I explained that money is a challenge. She said that it should be done long before we sell the house (I pay a good sum every month and want to downsize so there is more money for the family) and that it was sad we never did renovations in past homes until we were selling them. I explained that we had minimal income (she was a stay at home mom) and we didn't have excess to fix it up earlier than we did.

She said that she wants to help fix the house up. Any thoughts?

4. Not a conversation but an observation. She has been remembering certain traditions that the kids treasured. Something so simple as making chili on the day of Halloween. She brought a big pot of yummy chili for the kids and they were so happy. It wasn't the chili that made them happy but that she remembered a tradition. I even had some even though I am aggressively working out and dieting to get some decent abs.

5. She has been much more involved with other areas for the children as well. She isn't always appearing happy about it but she does do it. I think she acts put off but I think she really likes being needed and wanted.

I want to sign off tonight (this morning) with one more thing. I was reading scripture from a standing sites newsletter and wanted to share the scripture which is great:

"Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh; Is there anything too hard for Me?" Jeremiah 32:27

If I read the testimony correctly, the woman writing the testimony stated that the divorce was reversed as the husband wants to reunite with his family after being gone for three years. He started to go back to church with the family and they are having their marriage restored. Will it stick? Maybe. But it has a much better chance if they are staying close to their faith than without it. For nothing is to hard for God to achieve.

Goodnight everyone. Please pray for me, my children and my W (ex) and that we will all continue to listen to Him and follow His directions.

[Imageer]

MMF, I understand your dilemma. I struggle with it too. However, I have found that my need to move on and my need to stand cycle as much as our Ws. I have always decided to do nothing.

I suppose if some great woman came around, I would have to give it some serious thought and may actually go on a date with her to see how it felt. However, that hasn't happened yet and I don't actively look. I also feel that as much as I'm lonely and miss that part of my life, I am not ready yet. I am not over my W. I think this also applies to you. If we are not over our Ws what could we offer someone else? Although, there is an argument that entering a new R at this point will help us to move on. I'm not sure if that is true or even right though.

Quite a while ago, I set in my mind that 3 years would be a good amount of time to stand. (making the story your told above ironic) In looking at the restorations that have occurred here, it looks like most of them have occurred in less than 3 years. Also, at that point, I figure I have to really consider my needs and wants in my life. Currently, I am a little less that 2 years in to this.

I haven't said, but I took my ring off a while back after I signed the SA. It didn't feel right wearing it. I guess I felt that at a year and a half in to this, people were looking at me like I was in denial and I didn't feel like explaining the situation anymore. Sadly, most people looked at me like I had 2 heads. Maybe there was an element of opening myself up to having someone come along. I'm not sure. It just didn't feel right.

I still believe that there is a lot of guilt and a lot of uncertainty in your W. I think these observations you have and the way she interacts with you point to that. I think the D was a way to try to end her pain. In my opinion, you may be divorced now but your marriage is not over.

[ACJ]

((((((((((MMF)))))))))))))

I admire you for telling your W and children how you feel. I have had similar convos with my children. Mine went along the lines of they wanted me to know that they were happy for me to date if I wanted to. I am still officially M and so they know that whilst that state remains I will not date. It is not right (IMO) and they have seen enough bad examples from thier father without me adding to it.

My wedding ring has been on and off over the last 2 years especially recently. Now it is off permanently. With all that H has said and done in the last few weeks I do not feel he is worthy of me wearing it. I'd like to think that will change in the future but the realist in me knows better.

I have many friends who have used 'artificial' means e.g. dating websites to find a new partner. It's not for me. For one I don't think I would feel safe going on a blind date and for another I belive that if I meant to find a new partner God will lead them to me (or me to them).

Unless you find a new partner I wouldn't mention this to your children again. I suspect your son left his mum out of his prayers b/c he thought that is what you wanted. I'm glad you showed him otherwise. This is a confusing time for adults never mind children and I know you will continue to protect yours as much as possible.

FWIW I think you need to drop the rope a little more with your W. Yes let her be part of the children's lives if that is what she wants but I wouldn't mention anything about your own personal life from here on in unless she asks. You don't want her to feel like you are goading her (I know you aren't) and you certainly don't want her coming back out of pity.

Make the rest of your DB journey about saving MMF. You deserve to give yourself that.

[missmyfriend]

Imageer: MMF, I understand your dilemma. I struggle with it too. However, I have found that my need to move on and my need to stand cycle as much as our Ws. I have always decided to do nothing.
MMF: This is a very good point. I have had various cycles of feeling good about standing and then feeling convinced that I should "move on". I don't want to be a victim of my cycles, if that makes sense.

Imgaeer: I suppose if some great woman came around, I would have to give it some serious thought and may actually go on a date with her to see how it felt. However, that hasn't happened yet and I don't actively look. I also feel that as much as I'm lonely and miss that part of my life, I am not ready yet. I am not over my W. I think this also applies to you. If we are not over our Ws what could we offer someone else? Although, there is an argument that entering a new R at this point will help us to move on. I'm not sure if that is true or even right though.
MMF: I think this is part of where my challenge has come up. A really great woman came into my life many months ago but my marriage status was something neither of us were willing to overlook. Being legally married was a great means to stand with justification. Now it is more challenging because we are no longer legally married.

I admit I am not over my W. After more than two years, I still love her deeply. At times, I have prayed that God would remove that from my heart. This prayer has obviously not been answered.

As far as a new R helping us to move on, my concern is that it doesn't. It is a band-aid covering up emotional wounds that are gaping. There is no treating of the emotional wounds but using another person to try to hide the hurt that exists. If something doesn't go well, which happens in most cases, the pain felt is extremely strong and, if really honest, is really from the original wound (our original spouse). Plus I am afraid I may hurt a wonderful and kind person in this new R. I don't want to use someone else to help me get over my W.

Imageer: Quite a while ago, I set in my mind that 3 years would be a good amount of time to stand. (making the story your told above ironic) In looking at the restorations that have occurred here, it looks like most of them have occurred in less than 3 years. Also, at that point, I figure I have to really consider my needs and wants in my life. Currently, I am a little less that 2 years in to this.

I haven't said, but I took my ring off a while back after I signed the SA. It didn't feel right wearing it. I guess I felt that at a year and a half in to this, people were looking at me like I was in denial and I didn't feel like explaining the situation anymore. Sadly, most people looked at me like I had 2 heads. Maybe there was an element of opening myself up to having someone come along. I'm not sure. It just didn't feel right.
MMF: I have had the same exact feelings. I don't want my W to see me wearing it. I only felt like it was important to my children and to have a sign of what I was doing for myself. At this point, people have really considered me as having 2 heads, lol. I haven't fully decided to wear or not wear it but I will remove it if my W is around.

Imageer: I still believe that there is a lot of guilt and a lot of uncertainty in your W. I think these observations you have and the way she interacts with you point to that. I think the D was a way to try to end her pain. In my opinion, you may be divorced now but your marriage is not over.
MMF: You may be right, Imageer. Do you think there is also something more than guilt motivating her? When she says a lot of these things, it is more directing with a show of force (not harsh) than apologetic. Hers seems more disappointed in me for not fixing up the house (removing the wallpaper, painting, carpeting, etc).

Imageer, thank you. I really needed to hear someone else's pov on this and considering our similar situations, we are almost walking in each others shoes.

[missmyfriend]

ACJ, what a great post! I see a lot of clarity and I appreciate the direction because it can be so challenging knowing the right thing to do when you are the one right in the middle of it.

My kids do not have an issue whether I wear the ring or not because they know that I love their mother. I think it is more of an issue for me than anyone else.

It is a good question about the dating websites. While I do know some that have not only found the "right person" through these sites, I do know a large number of nightmares resulting from this approach. I agree that God would put the right person for us in our path and there is a time simply to trust and this is probably it.

I am glad you mentioned about no further discussion of a new partner with my children. I also was questioning if I handled it correctly with my son about his prayers because I don't want to cause him any more hurt than he has gone through already. Plus I want him to always include people that he loves in his prayers and not because he is worried about me.

I was reading the second to last paragraph and you are so on point with that comment. I don't want her to want me out of pity. This would be incredibly foolish of me and any restoration would be fleeting. Even if I don't date, I think that sharing that I may start dating allowed her to feel free. I will say that the more I have been kidding around with her and just acting like friends, the more she has reached out with the offers I mentioned.

Thank you very much.

[Imageer]

As far as a new R helping us to move on, my concern is that it doesn't. It is a band-aid covering up emotional wounds that are gaping. There is no treating of the emotional wounds but using another person to try to hide the hurt that exists. If something doesn't go well, which happens in most cases, the pain felt is extremely strong and, if really honest, is really from the original wound (our original spouse). Plus I am afraid I may hurt a wonderful and kind person in this new R. I don't want to use someone else to help me get over my W.

MMF, this would seem to answer your own questions them. You must be finished with one before you can move to another. Esspecially if you are looking for a serious R. As much as you may feel a need for companionship, you cannot control when you are ready.

MMF: You may be right, Imageer. Do you think there is also something more than guilt motivating her? When she says a lot of these things, it is more directing with a show of force (not harsh) than apologetic. Hers seems more disappointed in me for not fixing up the house (removing the wallpaper, painting, carpeting, etc).

Who knows. Maybe the house is a sore spot to her. Her actions would seem to be extreme compared to her complaint, but who knows what people dwell on. If you think it would help your situation, then fix up the house. If you are creative and work hard, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Plus it has the added benefit of giving you something to focus on other than your W. I did a bunch of work to my place and I'm getting ready to do it again to my new place. yuo also have an advantage over me. You have 3 kids you can put to work. Kids love stripping wallpaper!

One of my central goals in this is to try to make me and my life more appealing than my Ws life. So I do the work for myself because I live there but I also do it to make the place look like a place she would want to live. I take great satisfaction when my place looks good and W compliments me on it. Which she has.

[Imageer]

I will say that the more I have been kidding around with her and just acting like friends, the more she has reached out with the offers I mentioned.

Making someone laugh breaks down barriers, builds relationships, shows acceptance and builds attraction. This is why I strongly believe that being light and friendly and making them laugh is vitally important. Most women will tell you that they find men that make them laugh attractive. My W has probably told me this 1000 times. She also told me that one of the reasons she felt she had to leave was that I didn't make her laugh anymore. Now, in the last few weeks, I'm making her laugh and we are laughing together almost every time I see her.

[missmyfriend]

I had held off on the house with stripping wallpaper and painting due to two reasons:

emotional - we always worked on projects together and had a good time plus before we got married, I completely painted and wallpapered our first house before she moved in (after the wedding). I wanted her to have a nice place.

time - although I could've made time, there have been so many activities with the kids so I always felt worn out

Enough excuses. Imageer, you are right. I have started to write up a project plan to address all of the house needs that I can work on. The other things like carpeting, I will wait until money is available and a good sale comes up.

I do thing that if she saw the house in nice condition she would be much more pleased. I think it bothers her and it surprises her that I would not take care of it considering I typically dont wait to fix things.

On laughter, I would agree that it is much more desirable than moping. Yuck!