How am I doing? Need some encouragement......

[Superstar]

We all have had backslides in our situations, you are not a special unique snowflake in that regard.

Pull up your shorts, put your head down, and do the work that detachment requires.

She isn't wondering about you at all right now, and you aren't getting the healing time away from her you need.

[Sam1007]

I know I shouldn't keep beating myself over the head about the backslides, but it's hard (you all know I'm sure!)

A couple of people have said I come across as needy. I do feel needy, however, I don't really act that way around W I don't think? Can one of you tell me what part exactly made you say that? I guess I don't see it and I know I shouldn't be doing that...
Thanks a lot!

[Sam1007]

The hardest part about all of this is I realized this morning is the fact that the backslides make me want to seek contact with her MORE and pursue her MORE and when things seem to go in the right direction, it becomes easier to detach and let her do her thing... TOTALLY contrary to what I need!! Any suggestions on what my needy bahviours are?

[Coach]

Clingy/needy behaviour: asking for reassurance too much aka "taking the temperature," fishing for compliments, needing her approval so you feel better, needing instead of wanting, get upset when she tells you no. Read up on co-dependence, Melody Beattie.
Do you try to love your W using your LLs or hers?
Cheers

[Sam1007]

I understand those. However, I am not doing any of those things. Some previous posters said aI came across as needy in my sitch description, I was wondering if they could tell me what part exactly made them say that, because I want to work on that! I was taking the temeprature back in Feb and Mar a lot, but I have worked on that a lot and I think I have definitely improved in that regard. That is why I am really curious what part of my post made them say that.

Re the LL's, I still need to listen to the CD's, but I am pretty certain Word of Affirmation is one of her major ones, that is why I am trying to compliment her whe I see her (about her achievements at work, her appearance, etc..)

Thanks for checking in on me!

[Sam1007]

Hi Sam, I'm Sandi.....an almost WAW. I had been where your wife was for a very long time without OM involved at all, so it doesn't have to mean there is another person. However, with her new look......it will be very tempting to her b/c you can bet she is getting the attention from other men. She will like that a lot since she had low self-esteem!

I had to think about your comments for a little while, to let them sink in. Since she lost the weight, she has been dressing more sexy, at first it was maybe a little TOO much for just working. And yes, she does seem to get a boost from some of that attention. However, it also makes her uncomfortable. About 20 years ago, she was the victim of a sexual attack and she has told me a long time ago (before any of the current issues arose) that that kind of attention makes her feel uncomfortable (like it could happen again). Most of the recent events of male attention she has told me about happened more than 4 months ago and she tells me that she got out of that place as quick as she could. I think that some of these events actually have caused her to dress a little more conservatively now. I still think she looks incredible and I tell her so on a regular basis (it's one of my 180's). She's been trying to lose weight for a long time and now she's done it and I have told her I am proud of her.

Another thought: maybe losing the weight got her self-confidence up just far enough to gather the courage to give me the ILYBNILWY talk?

[Sam1007]

Just a question that came up in my mind today: My W and I share the kids, as in more or less equal nights at my house as at her house. Is this still a characteristic of a WAW? She does make an effort to see them and spend time with them, even though her business does seem to take slightly more priority (as in she will ask me to swap days with her because she has somewhere to go for work).

In thinking about this a little more, if I am being honest, I guess I do the same. I try to schedule my trips for work on the days that she has them, but sometimes you just can't and I still need to make a living, also for them. I have not had to swap days in about 6 months though.

I was just wondering if all the WAW stuff applies to my case?

[sandi2]

In Oct 07, she told me ILYBNILWY. This comes as a complete shock to me, esp since I was just starting to feel better about life and everything. She said that she still sees me as her very best friend ever, someone that understands her better than anyone, but when we ML, she feels like ML to her brother. The feelings just aren't there anymore and this is making her extremely uncomfortable. She said that she can't turn her feelings back on like a light switch as I did.

Perhaps by feeling like you are her very best friend, it is too much of a "brotherly" thing and that is why she does not have the sexual attraction there. So, I would suggest you not come across as a "brother" in friendship or any other way. Ever wonder why some girls went after the "bad boys"? Just a thought. I'm not saying to start being bad to her, but stop doing anything that comes across as a "girlfriend" (no offense intended) b/c she can always have girl friends but you want to be her lover. Being friends in a MR is great, but since she is feeling like you are more her "brother" then I think you need to work on getting a different image across to her. For example, don't go clothes shopping with her.....that is something her girlfriends can do.

I email her several long letters back explaining my viewpoints and how I was trying to support her. She keeps responding that I say all the right things now, but it still isn't bringing her feelings back.

I don't mean to sound curel when I say this, but once a woman has lost that sexual attraction, almost everything her H does is a complete "turn-off" to her. So, these long letters and emails are seen to be too needy to her. I know what you were trying to do and understand it completely, but I'm just telling you how it comes across to her.

I am trying to be upbeat as much as possible, to the point where she asks: "How can you be so happy in this situation?". I just tell her that I am trying to show her how I can be to live with

I am sure you were trying to apply the DB rule here even if you had not read about it yet, but she is seeing you in a different light than what you are wanting to protray.

I sort of broke down a little bit at that point and told her that I still love her very much and that I miss her and that the door is always open if she wants to come back.

As bad as it sounds, this is about the worse type of "neediness" that you can show her. She wants to see a strong confident man that will take charge and have sex appeal. If you do what she needs, you won't have to beg her to come back.....she will fly back to you.

But now, her parents and sister are getting into it and take my side, calling her to tell her she's making a big mistake,

This is only making matters worse. Don't discuss your R with anyone else and if the family asks any more questions, you need to ask them to please not talk to her that it is does not help.

THis leads to tonight when W tells me that she feels like I have been complaining behind her back...

She knows you've been talking when family talk to her and it makes her feel betrayed. However, don't try to go explain anything, just don't say anymore about it.

If you have an idea of a man you think shows much sex appeal and strength as a man, try to see if you can incoporate that style into part of your personality. It takes works and lots of practice, but some have found it to be worthwhile. Marriage has a way of changing people for the worse without them realizing it. So, I'm just trying to point some things out that you can start working on trying to improve yourself. Like I said, the main thing right now is not to do anything to remind her that you are a brother!

Take care,
Sandi

[Sam1007]

Thanks a lot for checking in on me again! I really appreciate your advice and pointers! As before, even without knowing me, your comments are right on the $$!

Perhaps by feeling like you are her very best friend, it is too much of a "brotherly" thing and that is why she does not have the sexual attraction there. So, I would suggest you not come across as a "brother" in friendship or any other way. Ever wonder why some girls went after the "bad boys"? Just a thought. I'm not saying to start being bad to her, but stop doing anything that comes across as a "girlfriend" (no offense intended) b/c she can always have girl friends but you want to be her lover. Being friends in a MR is great, but since she is feeling like you are more her "brother" then I think you need to work on getting a different image across to her. For example, don't go clothes shopping with her.....that is something her girlfriends can do.

This does hit really close! We have gone shopping together before, even clothes shopping. She never really was interested in dressing up due to her self-esteem and weight, so I wanted to show her that she can look good by helping her pick out stuff that I think looks good on her. Writing this, I feel like such a gay "girlfriend" LOL Having said that, we haven't done this in a while (couple of months) and even then I have been taking the kids to a toy store or something while she's in the store.

I don't mean to sound curel when I say this, but once a woman has lost that sexual attraction, almost everything her H does is a complete "turn-off" to her. So, these long letters and emails are seen to be too needy to her. I know what you were trying to do and understand it completely, but I'm just telling you how it comes across to her.

I have realized that a while ago. Those long emails were in response to her long emails while I was overseas in Nov and Dec last year. This hasn't happened since then!

I am sure you were trying to apply the DB rule here even if you had not read about it yet, but she is seeing you in a different light than what you are wanting to protray.

I had not read anything about DB or anything else. I was just thinking how would she want to stay with someone that's always miserable, that's all. She did say that she saw my point. Of course, this was back in Jan. She has not said anything of the sorts since then. I'm a little confused by your comment at the end. Are you saying that it's making the wrong impression on her? Or was I just overdoing it a little bit?

As bad as it sounds, this is about the worse type of "neediness" that you can show her. She wants to see a strong confident man that will take charge and have sex appeal. If you do what she needs, you won't have to beg her to come back.....she will fly back to you.

I realize that I shouldn't have done this. However, I wasn't crying or anything. I just wanted to make it clear to her that my feelings for her are still there. I told her this in a calm voice, not like I was falling apart. After I said that I still love her very much, she did come sit next to me and put her head on my shoulder, that's actually when I told her I miss her.
I am a little confused about the "take charge" comment. How is taking charge compatible with "dropping the rope". Or do you mean taking charge of my own life not ours?
I also am not clear on what she needs. There are still some fixing things at her shop that ned to be completed. Would that be something that I should just go over and do, unasked?

She knows you've been talking when family talk to her and it makes her feel betrayed. However, don't try to go explain anything, just don't say anymore about it.

I did not explain anything to her on why I did talk to them. However, I did tell her yesterday, in a calm, honest way, that I want her to know that I know I betrayed her trust when I told her parents about stuff she confided in me and that it won't happen again and that I want her to know she can come to me to talk about anything without worry that I will tell anybody else.

I know emotional intimacy is important to maintain, that is why I wanted to say that. Last June, the MC asked her if she felt emotionally intimate with me and she said that she was. To which the MC said that that is needed first in order to start feeling physically intimate.

If you have an idea of a man you think shows much sex appeal and strength as a man, try to see if you can incoporate that style into part of your personality. It takes works and lots of practice, but some have found it to be worthwhile. Marriage has a way of changing people for the worse without them realizing it. So, I'm just trying to point some things out that you can start working on trying to improve yourself. Like I said, the main thing right now is not to do anything to remind her that you are a brother!

I read about someone trying to behave like James Bond. I sure see the sex appeal to that kind of man. However, it seems to me that he gets into women's minds by sweeping her of her feet and then abandoning them. Basically, he lets them get real close and then pulls away. At first, I wasn't sure if that is the right approach here, but thinking about it... I think the underlying reason why detaching works is because you make them want what they cannot have. You're basically "reeling" them in by pulling back a little further every time they come closer. Don't know if that's how it works, but that is how imagine it works.

Any thought about my thoughts. Should I look at it this way?

Thanks again everybody!

[sandi2]

Well, I'm so glad that you didn't chunk my reply out the window...lol. I will try to explain myself better, and anytime that you don't understand what I'm saying please do like you did this time and ask me about it b/c I don't always do a good job of relating what I mean to.

Writing this, I feel like such a gay "girlfriend" LOL Having said that, we haven't done this in a while (couple of months) and even then I have been taking the kids to a toy store or something while she's in the store.

Please don't feel that way, b/c a lot of women would just love for their H's to go shopping with them and to tell them what looks good on them, etc. You were trying to do the right thing in helping to build her self esteem and I think that is very considerate of you. The only reason I brought that up was b/c of what she had said about the brotherly friendship. This may not have had anything to do with that whatsoever, but we want to get away from anything the remotely resembles looking like "just a friend" to her or causing her to have only feelings of a friend toward you.

Those long emails were in response to her long emails while I was overseas in Nov and Dec last year. This hasn't happened since then!

Okay, well....I may have misdiagnosed that one...lol. I was trying to see what you may have done to cause her to feel like she does. Like I said before, unfortunately when a woman loses that sexual attraction, it seems to be hard to regain it.

I'm a little confused by your comment at the end. Are you saying that it's making the wrong impression on her? Or was I just overdoing it a little bit?

Guess I should have went back to read my post again, but if this is about the PMA and staying upbeat......I meant that you may have been trying so hard that you were coming across as "over doing it" to her and, again, that was a "turn-off" to her. The reason it would be a turn-off is b/c she saw through it and knew why you were trying so hard, so just try to do it naturally as possible. I know it sounds like you can't win, but you will. It is just that right now she is not seeing you in the right "light" and that is what we will work on to change that.

However, I wasn't crying or anything. I just wanted to make it clear to her that my feelings for her are still there.

Glad you cleared that up and since you have told her that, then you don't need to repeat it since she has the feelings that she does. You may be tempted to, but try not to say it again or tell her that you love her, etc. I know it sounds the opposite of what you think you should be doing, but that is what is so crazy about all of it.

I am a little confused about the "take charge" comment. How is taking charge compatible with "dropping the rope". Or do you mean taking charge of my own life not ours?

I'm glad you brought that to my attention b/c you know what?.....I was kind of talking out of both sides of my mouth, wasn't I? I think I forgot and was thinking about myself when I was almost a WAW and was having an EA with OM. He was the opposite of my H and was a very "take charge" type of man and it really turned me on! So, just pretend I did not say that (for the time being) and let's get back to your stitch and off of mine (sorry). BTW, are you the "take charge" kind of man?

You see there are two basic ways of going about this. Some can act as if they have had a "great awakening" and become the "friend" and be there for the wife, outshine the OM, show what a great person you have become and how much fun you can be, etc., and it works. But others have to "drop the rope" before they get their W's attention. That means to show no concern about what she does and that you are moving on with your life with or without her, but either way, you will be just fine and you don't show any worry about it. In other words, you have turned her lose. But, you still show your self improvements and how you are getting a life of your own and all of those things. Now, if you are still sleeping in the same bed or living under the same roof, that may be a little hard to do. The decision and what you think would work best in your particular stitch is for you to decide. Whichever way you go, I do believe a woman wants a man that is not easy to have and that is why I said that you do not need to be so easily available to her.....whatever you decide. You can act "aloof", as I have said, without being cold or rude, but just as though you have other things to do or think about, and you are not getting upset about what she says or what she does. That is the main thing to remember. You cannot control what she does.....so don't even try. Do not let her know that anything she says upsets you....(if you have to go burry your head in a pillow and scream). That's why long walks or working out at the gym is good. It helps get rid of all that frustration.

I also am not clear on what she needs. There are still some fixing things at her shop that ned to be completed. Would that be something that I should just go over and do, unasked?

I'm sure it is b/c of the statement that I made that confused you. Hope I helped to clear that up. I would not go over and do anything at her shop. If she asked, then I suppose that would be up to you and how you felt about it. You could always be too busy and too unavailable to her and it would cause her to see that she can't take you for granted. You take "brothers" for granted. Until she gets out of that frame of mind that you are like a brother to her.....then you may have to take drastic measures.

However, I did tell her yesterday, in a calm, honest way, that I want her to know that I know I betrayed her trust when I told her parents about stuff she confided in me and that it won't happen again and that I want her to know she can come to me to talk about anything without worry that I will tell anybody else.

That is good that you did that. I hope that they will not continue to talk to her b/c it will just make things worse for you in the long run.

I know emotional intimacy is important to maintain, that is why I wanted to say that. Last June, the MC asked her if she felt emotionally intimate with me and she said that she was. To which the MC said that that is needed first in order to start feeling physically intimate.

It is my belief that if a woman's emotional needs are being met that she can even deal with having the physical needs unmet--if she has to. That is just my way of thinking--and maybe b/c I never had my emotional needs met in my own M. But, you are correct, the emotional, I think, needs to be met first. However, a lot of people say to just go ahead and have the physical intimacy and then the feelings will eventually follow. It didn't work for me, but then I'm not everybody.

I read about someone trying to behave like James Bond. I sure see the sex appeal to that kind of man. However, it seems to me that he gets into women's minds by sweeping her of her feet and then abandoning them. Basically, he lets them get real close and then pulls away. At first, I wasn't sure if that is the right approach here, but thinking about it... I think the underlying reason why detaching works is because you make them want what they cannot have. You're basically "reeling" them in by pulling back a little further every time they come closer. Don't know if that's how it works, but that is how imagine it works.

The James Bond thing got started between me and a couple of men here on the board. I was talking to a young man and telling him that my idea man was Rhett Butler in "Gone With the Wind" (I'm old fashion) and he and another man said James Bond (which I think of him the way you do....lol) but both are fictional characters. However, I do think if you have an idea of a role model of someone you think of as being a man that women go for, and it is somewhat reasonable for you to think about yourself modeling after, then I would say to go for it. It seemed to work for my friend b/c he ended with a success story. He said he ended up being Rhett Butler and James Bond combined! Now that is saying something! (lol)

I used to think some men should secretly read some of those romance novels just to get an idea of what kind of men women dream of.....lol. My H said once that he could never be like those men. My response to that was, how did he know since he never even read one of the books to find out.

You do have the right concept of the detaching and "reeling them in" b/c they want what they can't have.

I believe we all can stand to raise the bar when it comes to improving ourselves. As I said before, for some reason after we marry, we get too comfortable and we start letting down too much and begin to take each other for granted. That is when a lot of the romantic feelings wear off very quickly.

I remember when I was in school, it was not the boys that were falling all over me or following after me like a loved starved puppy dog, that I was interested in. It was the ones that didn't pay me any attention that was a challenge to me. Those were the boys that I would flirt with and try to get their attention and for sure.....get them interested enough to ask me out on a date! I think the same applies after M. You need to keep a certain amount of detachment to the point of not ever taking one another for granted. You need to have an air of mystery about you. You need to be more interesting and keep her guessing (not worrying, but guessing in a good way), you need to be fun to be around. You need to act sexy, look sexy, and smell sexy. I have told so many men to always come home and shower and put on some good smelling cologne b/c that has a senual affect on women. They learned I knew what I was talking about. Especially at bedtime......when you pass her and she gets a whiff of you smelling good enough to eat.....but you don't seem to have sex on your mind at all......hummm.....it will cause her to wonder and to be interested in getting to the bottom of things. (No pun intended....lol). Don't expect it to happen in just a few day/nights and don't get all down and blue if it takes weeks, but keep it up every night. Don't do or say anything to put pressure on her or pursue her and you would be surprised just how little it takes to do that (pursue, I mean).

Well, I'll let you go after this long post. Hope it helps some.

Take care,
Sandi