losing sunshine but gaining happiness either way

[LosingSunshine]

Some thoughts on my talk with my C this morning.

Coming to terms with the fact that reconciliation is becoming less and less an option. Two big factors on my end that is persuading me of this. Intimacy issues, even when emotional level was high, and her having not ever dealt and probably won't deal, unless it's a precondition to piecing, with the fact that she has behaviour issues as a result of her being a child of an raging alcoholic. (there are sitch's with her dad to this day - if she forgets to call him he gets miffed, he's sometimes is drunk when she calls and it's unpleasant and so forth).


Still unsure what is exactly going on but it's unhealthy and not helping the sitch, nor my W. My W will have a huge taste of reality in the coming weeks and it will be very trying for her as she watches her family crumble, her M crumble, the financial stress and possibly legal consequences as a result of her actions.

He is amazed that W has chosen to not be with kids more...that she is chosing her friend over her children. We tried putting each of us in her shoes and were at a loss. Just doesn't make sense unless you factor in the la la land she's in and possible manipulation/bad advice she's getting from her new friends. Sad. I wish I had no feelings for her about this. Need to detach even more.

Comforting thoughts from C that if d happens and W is lesbian, the kids should be fine emotionally being raised in this type of environment although it's better for mom and dad. Unhealthy that almost all quality time being spent with kids is while OW is present. The court even frowns on this. The kids behaviours are starting to reflect the tension of this aspect of the sitch.

He recommended that I find 10 to 15 minutes a day to clear my mind of problem-solving and thinking to just relax and listen. What is God telling me. What am I not hearing. I told him I try to do that every night before going to sleep by praying the rosary. I will try both now.

He also said, that I and only I know what's best. Not the L, not him, not friends/family. It is true that I am being bombarded by all three with what I should do, not do etc...What is best is win win, happiness for both, and great environment for the kids. However, there is reality to deal with.

He agreed that this week/next week will be the most challenging for me, quite possibly the most stressful since the sitch began. I need to keep focus on what is right (the kids) and the day to day things, not the future. It still doesn't take away my fear, my compassion for her, and everything else. This whole process makes me sick. I am glad to be able to vent this here. Time for me to buck up and call my L.

Chris

[stubborn]

Chris - this sucks for you and I wish it were different. But the real clincher here is your kids. Nobody deserves any of this but especially not your kids and from their mother no less. I am sorry. I marvel that she's ignoring such YOUNG kids too. As a mommy I can't fathom it.

But just to vent may I say the terms "convert" and "lifestyle" are repulsive to me. I am not a Presbeterian thinking about becoming a Jew and as to lifestyle??? You mean like having a career, paying taxes and having children? Yeah, that's my "lifestyle" and I'd venture to say it doesn't differ from Sandi's very darn much. And my spouse is cheating on me, breaking her commitments and it hurts like hell. Some lifestyle.

But that's about me and this is your thread. Just want to make sure people know we are not dealing with some cult here, just people. Most people who get involved with people whom they KNOW are married are NOT TOO HEALTHY EMOTIONALLY. And when they don't have children they can lack a certain empathy for the way that changes commitment. Now, about women: as you probably know it's more about emotion and connectedness than sex. Some people would call it passion (I'd call it immaturity).

On the one hand it's the zebra thing: it don't matter who she's cheating with, she's cheating. On the other, since it's a woman and we know women are about emotional connection that gives you a headstart on understanding what W finds attractive about OW. This provides you a potential strategy for bringing your wife back toward you. As to how to implement that? Not sure. I'll think on it today.

I think it may be important to play a certain kind of stoic hardball when it comes to the kids. You know your wife is ACOA and not working toward curing those past hurts. In fact she's out building up a new set of hurts for everyone. So is she the best person for them right now? No. Do everything you can to take care of the kids and if need be, protect them from their mother. Them being around OW is not good, and not because she's lesbian, because she's such a whack job that she's involved with a married woman. If she were a man it would still be wrong for your wife to have the kids around him...(confusing sentence but it boils down to ZEBRA and the kids should NOT be spending time with the zebra)

Stoic hardball: you "wife, our children are small and need full time parenting so much as we are able to provide it. I feel that your sleeping away from home and being out until all hours is not effective parenting. Your drinking worries me and makes me question your ability to be an effective parent right now. Your choices show me that you are not able to be effective at this time. I will do everything in my power to provide the best home for my children and the most stable parent." (singular, might get her attention)
W: what do you mean, are you threatening me?
you: "no, I'm stating facts and I am telling you that I will base my actions on those facts. If that means having the majority of custody I will pursue primary custody if we go to court ("if" leaves the door open to her wake up call - you don't have to go, you could fix this).

etc etc...not mad when you talk, factual. (easier said than done)

and have you touched your wife lately? Remember her "friend" probably showed her friendship by gentle touching (Sandi wasn't completely off base in her description of tender "sympathy")
Your wife needs to know that you would touch her outside of sex (of course you would but this is not someone who is thinking clearly) She needs to remember that you have a whole "relationship" based on mutual affection and a family in common. Your wife has probably even used the trite phrase "we can be friends" (WTF? Do ya screw your friends over? but...anyway)

I'm rambling but you get the idea.

Now that I have converted you all to my lifestyle I will get back to cleaning house. sheesh!

[stubborn]

and I just read this from Puppy on another thread and I think it pertains to you:

My experience has been that people in affairs will usually cop to about one level or so LESS than what they're really doing. Thus:

"We're just friends" = EA

"It's an EA, but we haven't been physical" = PA

"We've had sex, but not intercourse" = "We've had intercourse, but only once, and I told him 'that can't happen again until I am free from my husband', and we're trying to 'cool it' righit now" (this almost never works)

That's just my opinion/experience. It really doesn't matter anyway, since even an inappropriate emotional commitment (EA), especially for a woman, is in many ways even more entangled and destructive than a short-term PA would be to the marriage.

Puppy

Damn, he's good.
Stub

[LosingSunshine]

Happy Monday (((Stubby)))!!! Is my PMA showing

But just to vent may I say the terms "convert" and "lifestyle" are repulsive to me. I am not a Presbeterian thinking about becoming a Jew and as to lifestyle??? You mean like having a career, paying taxes and having children? Yeah, that's my "lifestyle" and I'd venture to say it doesn't differ from Sandi's very darn much. And my spouse is cheating on me, breaking her commitments and it hurts like hell. Some lifestyle.

Go ahead and vent. I have no problem with that. Heck, we are all here to learn, move forward and become better people in the process.

Most people who get involved with people whom they KNOW are married are NOT TOO HEALTHY EMOTIONALLY. And when they don't have children they can lack a certain empathy for the way that changes commitment. Now, about women: as you probably know it's more about emotion and connectedness than sex. Some people would call it passion (I'd call it immaturity).

What I have found interesting are the lies I am uncovering. I finally got my online access to my cell acct and have been looking at the texting that my W did prior to removing her phone from my acct 2 1/2 weeks ago. Her and OW started texting regularly (read alot) towards the end of the week before my sitch began. For the month that I have records for, it's about 1000 txts between them. Wow! Wonder if my L will subpeona the actual msgs

I do believe that the OW is not quite with it and has no comprehension of what the reality of the sitch is. So, I guess the issue I am dealing with is if I don't confront OW more than I already have (I believe they think I am suspicous now), how do I break the emotional connectedness. My L will slap me if I confront OW and I don't really want to. How can I DB this sitch passively I guess is the question?

On the one hand it's the zebra thing: it don't matter who she's cheating with, she's cheating. On the other, since it's a woman and we know women are about emotional connection that gives you a headstart on understanding what W finds attractive about OW. This provides you a potential strategy for bringing your wife back toward you. As to how to implement that? Not sure. I'll think on it today.

Any thoughts you have here will be greatly appreciated. The only things I can think of revolve around outing the EA to Ws parents and friends from back home, confronting the OW etc...and quite frankly, I am scared to do any of that. She's never home and I do take advantage of every opportunity I can to communicate and validate her thoughts. Not lost here but been focused too much on the business end of the sitch and not so much on the DB end and could use some advice to get me back on track.

I think it may be important to play a certain kind of stoic hardball when it comes to the kids. You know your wife is ACOA and not working toward curing those past hurts. In fact she's out building up a new set of hurts for everyone. So is she the best person for them right now? No. Do everything you can to take care of the kids and if need be, protect them from their mother. Them being around OW is not good, and not because she's lesbian, because she's such a whack job that she's involved with a married woman. If she were a man it would still be wrong for your wife to have the kids around him...(confusing sentence but it boils down to ZEBRA and the kids should NOT be spending time with the zebra).

Hardball and a dose of reality might be kicking in this week since she wants to move out ASAP and take the kids. I am waiting to hear back from my L regarding the 2nd clause of the temp restraing order (distrubing the peace) and see if this would be a violation. If not, I might have to have one issued

Also, in the court guidelines it pretty much states that they frown upon exposing children too early to new relationships. I guess another ding.

Now, our non R/moving out/sitch conversations are very pleasant when she's not an emotional wreck. That happened Friday night and carried over on Saturday am when we talked. My guess is she'll be a wreck once she remembers her 4D birthday on Thursday. What a f'ing wreck.

and have you touched your wife lately? Remember her "friend" probably showed her friendship by gentle touching (Sandi wasn't completely off base in her description of tender "sympathy")
Your wife needs to know that you would touch her outside of sex (of course you would but this is not someone who is thinking clearly) She needs to remember that you have a whole "relationship" based on mutual affection and a family in common. Your wife has probably even used the trite phrase "we can be friends" (WTF? Do ya screw your friends over? but...anyway)).

Short answer is no. Should I?

I'll post more later. I have a meeting to call into.

Chris

[Phoenixdeux]

I agree with stubborn about playing hardball, but for a different reason. Everything he said about who is the best choice for the primary custodian is correct. Your wife is making bad choices and you have to protect the kids. But I suggest doing it for that reason only...not in anticipation that it will have an effect on her. Would you trust her even if it did...scaring her into staying with you? Maybe I'm too picky, but if I would still insist that my wife return to ME because she wanted to be with ME, and not for fear of financial woes, losing the kids, or being homeless...whatever.

[LosingSunshine]

Phx, thx for stopping by and you are correct. I am doing this for the kids and only the kids.
Chris

[stubborn]

yeah, I think you should touch your wife. It conveys love to her, nut case that she has been. Even people who are out of control of their own volition need comforting. She may reject it but at least you will have tried.

My logic on hardball is not out of line with yours, PhxD, just a different angle. Who knows what brings people back to their senses?

Phx, are you actually in the hot city? Or are you referring to a burning bird?

[sandi2]

But just to vent may I say the terms "convert" and "lifestyle" are repulsive to me. I am not a Presbeterian thinking about becoming a Jew and as to lifestyle??? You mean like having a career, paying taxes and having children? Yeah, that's my "lifestyle" and I'd venture to say it doesn't differ from Sandi's very darn much. And my spouse is cheating on me, breaking her commitments and it hurts like hell. Some lifestyle.

aaaaaaa.......I'm not sure exactly what this all means. I don't know if I was slapped in the face or what......I guess I hit a hot button or something.....I don't know. Maybe that isn't what is being said. I was just trying to offer my shoulder to a friend and I as I said, I don't know anything about the life of a lesbian, so if the term "lifestyle" or "convert" is replusive......I did not mean to turn anyone's stomach. To me it is a preferred way of living, by choice, a "lifestyle" and I think some are pulled, persuaded or converted into it. Anyway, rather than cause any problems, I guess the best thing for me to do is to back out of something I am not an authority on.

LS, you know I wish you the best in the world. I am concerned due to her past sexual history in your M that it would take a lot of therapy.....or something to help her. I do think that she is being malnipulated......and that is one reason the OW will not leave her alone with the children. JMHO. I would fight her tooth and nail for those kids.

But, I don't want to cause any more confusion here, so I will bow out of a subject I know very little about nor apparently am up on what words are appropriate to use. I just did not want to be offensive to anyone. You can reach me on my thread, if you wish.

Take care,
Sandi

[ernest88]

But just to vent may I say the terms "convert" and "lifestyle" are repulsive to me. I am not a Presbeterian thinking about becoming a Jew and as to lifestyle??? You mean like having a career, paying taxes and having children? Yeah, that's my "lifestyle" and I'd venture to say it doesn't differ from Sandi's very darn much. And my spouse is cheating on me, breaking her commitments and it hurts like hell. Some lifestyle.

aaaaaaa.......I'm not sure exactly what this all means. I don't know if I was slapped in the face or what......I guess I hit a hot button or something.....I don't know. Maybe that isn't what is being said. I was just trying to offer my shoulder to a friend and I as I said, I don't know anything about the life of a lesbian, so if the term "lifestyle" or "convert" is replusive......I did not mean to turn anyone's stomach. To me it is a preferred way of living, by choice, a "lifestyle" and I think some are pulled, persuaded or converted into it. Anyway, rather than cause any problems, I guess the best thing for me to do is to back out of something I am not an authority on.

LS, you know I wish you the best in the world. I am concerned due to her past sexual history in your M that it would take a lot of therapy.....or something to help her. I do think that she is being malnipulated......and that is one reason the OW will not leave her alone with the children. JMHO. I would fight her tooth and nail for those kids.

But, I don't want to cause any more confusion here, so I will bow out of a subject I know very little about nor apparently am up on what words are appropriate to use. I just did not want to be offensive to anyone. You can reach me on my thread, if you wish.

Take care,
Sandi

sandi- you need to stay right here on this thread. Chris needs you here. You are a voice of DB experience and that's what he needs at the moment.

I'm sure Stubby would agree that we all need to be helping Chris.

Correct Stubby??

[LosingSunshine]

Mike,

Thank you so much for saying what I was about to post last night. I had to close down before I posted as the W came home and we talked. By the time we were done, it was late and I had to get to bed.

(((Sandi))), Mike is right. I can use your DB experience moreso now than ever as my sitch is getting more and more interesting each passing day.

I'll journal shortly but W came home last night around 915 and we talked. As I expected, she is moving out this weekend and we agreed on a smooth transition for the kids. She really doesn't understand the reality of the legal situation which is sad. What I appreciated was the first opportunity in a long time to DB while we talked. And now, with only 2 to 3 days left before she's out, I will definitely need to revisit my goals and approach.

Chris