I Think I Have Officially DB'd Guys!!!

[jethro]

Hey SB.

So you never did tell us, was your break from the BB helpful at all???

Well, yes and no. I don't feel as entrenched in thinking about R-stuff so much; however, I find the BB grounding because others let me know when I'm off-base and need to regroup. (thanks LL and DFB)

After posting I did feel a bit better because now I know what I need to do...STOP DISCUSSING HER A. At this point, it really does neither one of us any good because I find out about more of the lies that have been told to me, and I continue to have to reset my thoughts on the whole sordid mess.

I think I'm confusing the A with our R...and although they are related, one is dead and the other renewed. And thus, my focus should not be on what is dead. Right?

jethro

[shinybear]

Hey Jethro...are we "on" together??

AS a bb addict, I'm relieved your experiment went that way .

You know, I think You may have it...it's something that I've not done yet too, but LL's post is making me think.

I don't ask ?'s about the A, per se any more...but the one-year anniversary of Bomb#1 is right around the corner. Of late it's been more that things "remind" me of the hurt, and I'll say so if CJ asks.

Then he says something to the effect of "we need to look to the future, not the past!". That really irked me. As it does you. I'm TRYING to get there, just have a little emotional garbage to sort out!!!

So yeah, it's easy to get resentful...but not particularly productive .

Shiny

[Trying24now]

LL,
Fantastic, insightful, thought provoking post.
T2

[Trying24now]

My God Jethro I think YOU'RE ME.
As I read through your posts and LL's questions I thought, MY god, he is saying exactly everything I'm thinking and feeling. Amazing!
If you get a chance to read some of my posts (especially the dozie of the past few days, I swear, you'll see yourself in them.
This crap is to pat. There must be "secret" handbooks out there that each of us roll players are doomed to follow. Geesh.
T2

[Jamesjohn]

I think I'm confusing the A with our R...and although they are related, one is dead and the other renewed. And thus, my focus should not be on what is dead. Right?

There you go, my friend!

"Some people are fix-it addicts. Fixing their marriages becomes the main focus of their lives. The problem with this is that relationships are like see-saws: the more that one person does of something, the less the other will do."

Make sure you don't fall prey to this, my friend. It's really easy to do this in the beginning of the piecing stage. So far, you've had to sprint to get to this point, and you've been really working your butt off. There comes a time, though, to start cooling down slowly.

Make sure you start "letting" her step up to the R some more. Make sure that YOU don't work on it so hard that there's nothing left for her to do. She may not do this EXACTLY the way you want it done, but from what I've seen with you two here so far, she'll probably pick up some of the slack.

This doesn't have to be a "mean" thing, either. It can do done in a way where you're doing you BOTH a favor.

[holdingon]

Jethro,
Have you read After the Affair? I found that book very hopeful (my H still involved with OW ) and might be helpful to you. Just a thought.

[Trying24now]

Holding,

First before I respond, let me apologize to Jethro for stealing this thread for a minute to respond to this post. Thank you Jethro.

Anyway Holding, I couldn't help but "butt" into the question you asked of Jethro about whether or not he's read, "After the Affair."

I read that book about two months after Bomb #1 struck and about two weeks into our first failed attempt at reconciliation. I found the book painful to read in some ways because at the time I didn't know "what kind of A" my H had. I think I saw it as an "exit affair"...anyway, the irony of that book is, here we were H * I (separated as a result of the bomb, even though the six month A had been over several months before I found out), and my H & I were talking about attempting reconciliation. Of course I was doing all the reading, pleading, begging, ad nauseum while HE began screwing OW #2. I scream (silently) every time I think of the irony of that.

I look back on how completely devastated I was back then. How pathetic, how needy, how totally out of control of myself and my life I was. It's almost frightening. During those months I wavered between homicide and suicide...how insane it all was.

I get angry at myself for dismissing the red flags I KNEW where there (when A#2) was going on, because I wanted so desperately to pull my "old life" and my marriage back together. So I talked myself out of what I knew to be true. I bought the continued lies because I needed to in order not to do take my own life. I was hanging by a thread psychologically and he was waving my mental state in the air like a white flag of surrender. I still till this day can't fathom the type of callous indifference he showed towards me, the woman he'd spent over 20 yrs of his life with. My ears ring with some of the 1/2 truths, out and out lies, omissions and cold hearted words he used to dismiss of my feelings. I saw him as a monster and yet...I clung to him.

Here I was, this somewhat successful professional woman whose outward appearance was held fastidiously intact that rushed home at night and jumped into bed wreathing and sobbing, trying to ward off the long nights of loneliness and absolute despair.

So I often ask myself, how did I get here? How did I get from looking into the eyes of a devil, to even considering still wanting to try again? I have great difficulty justifying that in my mind, finding the balance or sanity of that.

The memories of those days and the lessons I've learned from them greatly impact the way I perceive my H now. I relate so much to the things Jethro says they are my exact feelings in many many respects.

My H & I are still separated and although this time he seems far more committed to trying to heal our R...I am so haunted with suspicions, warning signs, mistrust, and fear that it is very difficult to see a "baby step" and take it at face value.

Believe me, I want to "trust" again because I know that if I can't, we don't stand a chance. But I know that after all the lies, deceitfulness and pain, we have a tough row to hoe here.

But as Jethro has said, as human beings there comes a point at which we have to allow ourselves to say, "I've done 90% of the work, I've driven us this far, if you can't take the wheel now and get us home, then you have to get out and walk.
T2

[lostlove]

For me, it's more that I know what patterns represent what didn't work in the past and I don't want to repeat those patterns. Also, I know what it takes to draw her closer, and she knows (as I've told her a million times) what it takes to draw me closer. This is what we need to work on, and frankly, I do far more work than she...and she will admit it.

does it matter who does more of the work as long as it gets done? why do we keep these score cards? I did the dishes and put the kids to bed, you cut the lawn and put out the trash? let's see you owe me x y z...doesn't seem right does it? how would we feel if our spouses kept such score cards with us? do we even consider that maybe though we think we are doing more (ok maybe we actually are) we are just doing more of what doesn't work and trying to give ourselves credit for it?

Honest to God, I don't know. I feel I "give" pretty consistently while she does it in more "spurts."

when I tried to address this same issue with my h, the response I got was "I'm human" in other words he has good days and bad days...some days he can give more and some less....he also pointed out that if/when I have a down day or a day when I'm simply not giving as much (as if it actually just happens) he understands and doesn't take it personally. Jethro are you taking it personally when w doesn't give as much as you think she should to you?

Quoting LL:
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what makes you so sure? how do you "know" that she'd do anything differently?
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Because of how she has behaved in the past, LL.

what do you mean by "how she behaved in the past"? do you treat her the same as you did in the past? do you look at her the same way? do you love her any less than you did before. (I'm afraid of what the answer to the last one will be)

now that I've written all this I'm feeling like I already responded to this post and it wasn't the one I was looking for...in anycase if I've pointed out anything new let me know what you think...if I've contradicted myself well shame on me and let me know. Now to search for the post I think I came to reply to.

LL

[lostlove]

here's the one I was looking for,

I HAVE changed first. I've been doing that all along. Do I need to "change" again? Perhaps...but again, I'm tired, LL...I just want to "be." Maybe you'd interpret that as a lack of effort, but one can only "drive" so long.

well then Jethro, from what I've read about you and the way you "are" in the r...just "being" would be a change now wouldn't it? can you just "be" and allow w to just "be" as well? I think you'd find yourself less tired and maybe just maybe w might pick up where you've left off?

Ahh...expectations. You know as well as I, LL, that we can only give for so long without expecting something in return...and frankly, for years I have done this...

ok then, what is it you are "expecting" in return that you aren't getting in some form or another?

So, then, how do I achieve my objective without telling her my needs, as I've been doing? I don't see how I can make it any clearer.

let's define your "needs" vs. your "wants" and see if we can't all come up with some plan to go about getting them met.

are things getting better even if slowly?
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Not sure. They were for a while, but maybe it's my own problems with not "getting over it."

so things got better for a while but you are not sure if they are still getting better?
are things getting any worse?
if things are not getting worse and you are just concerned that you've platued can you possible look at it as, you have come a long way and are taking a rest to regroup and note the changes made already?
also it is good to note that the problems of "getting over it" are OUR problems and we shouldn't hold our s's responsible for getting us over it, sure what they do and don't do can effect the healing process but ultimately it's up to us to heal.

I guess what it comes down to is I'd really like her to express to me that she wants to be with me.

again I will remind you that I do know how you feel, but let's look at the BIG picture...if she didn't want to be with you why the heck would she be there...why would she call you like she did yesterday to see how you were doing, why would she even make the slightest attempt at fixing things. If she didn't want to be with you I doubt you'd even get half of what you're getting now.

Perhaps show a little jealousy...just a little...something to give me a sign she's afraid of losing me.

she can't be afraid of loosing you if you are always so concerned with whether or not she wants to be with you. when you stop being afraid to loose her maybe she'll then show you some of that jeolousy.

Is that somewhat pathetic?

if it is then use a capital P for me.

LL

[Dagny]

Jethro,

You mentioned expectations you have of her behavior. Have you told her those? Have you told her what actions you need from her?

Jackie