"I will agree that in a long-term SSM, where the husband is the higher-desire partner and he gets turned down regularly and repeatedly over the years, there will be damage to his sense of masculinity."
This is the big sexual taboo of our times. The man ends up feeling like "damaged goods". It is like a heavy stone that he drags with him everywhere he goes. It pulls down every area of his life. It can lead to very serious psychological problems - I've peered over that particular precipice - its not a pretty sight. If the typical "not tonight dear" (or the night after that) wife knew how much damage she'd caused to a man's self-esteem, I imagine she'd be pretty distraught. But - pity, tears, shame and guilt are not aphrodisiacs. The "look what you've done to me" approach to kick-starting a sex-life doesn't work. Instead, the man has to renew himself and make himself the force of nature god intended him to be. There has to be strength and energy and joy in all he does. He has to get to a mental, physical and spiritual state in which he does not take rejections (too) personally. Sex is no longer a need but it is something he wants. He is strong enough to live without it, but also strong enough to leave a sexless marriage. That cocktail of freestanding strength, passion and perhaps even a dash of ruthlessness, is what many women are looking for.
"To be a bit tongue-in-cheek, this strong, feminine woman wants a strong, masculine man to push against --> and when she pushes, I had better not budge!"
You are a very lucky man - so is your wife.
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
Well if you asked my ex-husband whose fault our divorce was and whose fault it was that our marriage was sex starved, he would say that it was 100% my fault and 0% his fault.
Dance, I wasn't being facetious. You seemed to indicate that women only respond to their husbands, not act on their own under these circumstances, or that they don't bring their own baggage into the situation. I realize it is a two way street here.
I think many, MANY women are getting what they THOUGHT they wanted. The constant rejection of their husbands, as they've gone about essentially being "married" to their kids, has led the husbands to give up, turn to porn, turn to OW, etc.
Not saying that's RIGHT; just saying it's TRUE.
For the past 30 years, the contemporary American woman -- and the media -- have asked for Phil Donahue. Well, now that you got him, he ain't that attractive, is he.
Well if you asked my ex-husband whose fault our divorce was and whose fault it was that our marriage was sex starved, he would say that it was 100% my fault and 0% his fault.
Yep, after many men get married, they stop 'courting' their wives, become wrapped up in careers, and become lazy about maintaining that emotional connection that their wives need to stay physically close.
Yep, after many women get married, they stop 'courting' their husbands, become wrapped up in motherhood, and become lazy about maintaining that physical connection that their husbands need to stay emotionally close.
The point is, when a marriage is broken, the fault lies squarely with BOTH PARTNERS. Period. And to fix it, EACH much accept responsibility and work to fix themselves.
Nothing else works.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Well if you asked my ex-husband whose fault our divorce was and whose fault it was that our marriage was sex starved, he would say that it was 100% my fault and 0% his fault.
Yep, after many men get married, they stop 'courting' their wives, become wrapped up in careers, and become lazy about maintaining that emotional connection that their wives need to stay physically close.
Yep, after many women get married, they stop 'courting' their husbands, become wrapped up in motherhood, and become lazy about maintaining that physical connection that their husbands need to stay emotionally close.
The point is, when a marriage is broken, the fault lies squarely with BOTH PARTNERS. Period. And to fix it, EACH much accept responsibility and work to fix themselves.
Well if you asked my ex-husband whose fault our divorce was and whose fault it was that our marriage was sex starved, he would say that it was 100% my fault and 0% his fault.
Yep, after many men get married, they stop 'courting' their wives, become wrapped up in careers, and become lazy about maintaining that emotional connection that their wives need to stay physically close.
Yep, after many women get married, they stop 'courting' their husbands, become wrapped up in motherhood, and become lazy about maintaining that physical connection that their husbands need to stay emotionally close.
The point is, when a marriage is broken, the fault lies squarely with BOTH PARTNERS. Period. And to fix it, EACH much accept responsibility and work to fix themselves.
Thanks. That was my point. This is a two way street. Even if one spouse shows up with a problem, the other spouse is equaly as responsible for working on it. You can't simply throw it over the fence and drive on. By the way, this is a do as I say and not as I do post...
NTE - you are preaching to the choir. I don't know if you read my original thread or not, but I was the one in my marriage who tried everything, read the books, wanted to improve, brought up the situation and tried to get him to understand my side of things, tried the "just do it" approach...and he was the one who basically ignored every attempt I ever made and buried his head in the sand and blamed me for each and every failure our marriage had. He still blames me to this day.
In my other post to Baghera, I was simply trying to give him kudos for really "getting it". You seem to have taken it personally, but it has nothing to do with anyone else and I even said specifically that I wasn't picking on anyone in particular.
Also, I have commented on numerous women's threads in other forums discussing where it seems obvious to the outside reader how they (the woman) went wrong and how it is her responsibility to fix it herself. I am not saying it is always a man's fault by any means!
In my own marriage, our failures were about a 50/50 split. I take my 50 very seriously and have devoted a large chunk of my life toward not repeating my 50, by learning, growing, moving forward, reading forums and books such as this one, going to counseling, church, prayer, meditation, staying in shape, handling depression better, slaying my OWN inner demons myself.
I am engaged now and am determined NOT to have another failed marriage.
Where is my ex-husband? Still in the same place he was when I left him. Sad, full of blame for me, no inner growth, and slowly getting older but not wiser. I pray for him all the time. He hates my guts and makes it well known and would sooner die than pray for me. For I and I alone "ruined his life" as far as he is concerned. What about my life and how it was devastated by divorce? He got out with a better settlement than I did. But in his mind, it doesn't matter. It was all my fault and I ruined his life. 100% my fault, 0% his fault.
So you see...you are preaching to the choir about both parties having their fair share of the responsibility for the F-ed up parts of a failed marriage. But you simply mis-read the intention of my message to Baghera.
Dance, Maybe I did take it personally, though I know it was not aimed at me. I suppose I am tired of the endless books constantly blaiming everything on the husband and little to no responsibility on the wife. I did re-read your post, and it still looks a bit that way. This does exclude your previous posts. Again this is probably a trigger for me as my wife subsribes to the all the husband all the time camp.
