Hey Purr... I was thinking about you this morning. I wrote some stuff before about Uranus, you didnt answer that, so I am geussing you arent keen on astrology! But, your W is the right age to be having her Uranus half return. Its the classic MLC in astrology. If it helps you...try not to take this PERSONALLY. I know it feels horrible, but shes not doing it TO you, you are just the unfortunate casualty. When she said to you she feels trapped..it isnt you thats trapping her (although she wrongly thinks it is). Uranus is the planet of freedom, freedom of expression and freedom quite literally. Of rebellion and change but also chaos and instability. I think if this is whats happening to her, then rest assured, she feels compelled to do this, without understanding why (although she seems to be groping around for explanations). If you can be the bigger man, then lovlngly let her have her freedom. Let her know you support her and that you are there for her, that she needs to do this. My BF, as I said, is having a major Uranus transit (hence the living alone in a poxy flat and not even giving me the address) combined with some major Saturn ones too (hence the depression). I know all this, so its easier for me to not take it so personally. At the same time thuogh, I can see how the type of R we had led him to feel in part, frustrated and stuck. But, its his nature, or personality that dictated how he responded to this. His pattern in Rs has been to end it and move on. Thats what he did with me, except this time, he is suffering (he never showed any doubt or lasting hurt over the other GFs he left).
Uranus transits do cause us to act irrationaly and suddenly and to those around it can seem taht the person is sweeping changes through without permission or care. But it will feel scary and unsettling for her too, the difference is, she is compelled to make changes, not on the receiving end of them. Some people do come to their senses at the end of all this and realise that they in fact hastily swept away things that they miss and try and get them back. I guess thats why there are tales of MLCers coming back sometime later.
Any panic or distress on your part or attempts to cling, would make her want to free herself up even more I suspect. Can you perhaps try and be calmer about letting her do this? If its meant to be, I believe it does come back. You might need to work on forgiving her (I really believe she cant help it) and coping alone in the meantime. If after some time has gone by, she isnt showing signs of coming back, you may be feeling stronger by then anyway. You may not even want her back! But you're nowhere near that place now. So just do what you can one day at a time to get through this bit and let some more time go by,
Ali xxx
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Ali makes some good points here, even if you don't believe in astrology. I believe they lash out at us, and we do deserve some "blame" in that I'm sure each of us can find things we could have done differently in our marriages to make them happier. I know I can find a bunch, and for all the pain I've been through I really do feel good about learning these things. They have helped me grow, and while I've got a lot more work to do I do feel good about how far I've come. Frankly, if I do end up with a D, as I feel I will, some woman out there in my future will owe my W a thank you for cutting me loose. That woman will get someone who has grown, who has learned a great deal. My W will be selling this stock high, but that's her right. I don't mean to sound arrogant here, as I have many faults and a lot of work left to do, but I don't think it's wrong to pat ourselves on the back once in a while either.
I think one of the key things to learn here is the cycling experience. Detachment is not linear. At times we are furious at our spouses, yet at other times we still want to believe. For some of us, that faith will be rewarded, but for others it will not. Only time will tell. I'm convinced, however, that even those of us who lose our marriages are going through a very normal process of cycling through many different emotions, and that the process of pulling away from someone who has been a close part of our lives for so long takes a very long time, no matter what they say or do. Frankly, I feel I've gained a bit of insight into why battered women stay with their abusers for a while. I don't want to push that analogy too far, except to say that detaching from those who cause us pain is not as simple as it may look to an outsider.
This is a great thread; keep posting how you are doing.
Been reading your thread...ouch, what a tough sitch you have. You've got a good head on your shoulders though. I wish I could be in that place that you are at of being able to enjoy some things, like your trip.
I think something that hit me from your thread was what my W. is doing...still sending occasional email messages as little "contact points". I used to look at them as positive signs...that maybe it reflected some ambivalence or hope. Now though, I think she just wants to do it to keep me as her "friend", or appease her guilt.
Thank you for posting on my thread, lodo, and good luck on things. I'm continuing to track your sitch. I know exactly what you mean by the changing moods and the dread re: D. that is coming up for you.
Ali, thanks for your astrology input! I'm not too knowledgeable about it, but you sound pretty expert. : ) It's not totally my thing, but you know this has been the weirdest and most confusing experience I've had, so maybe what you're saying is true! The sense of her somehow feeling compelled to make changes and yet not seeming sure of what she wants certainly fits with what I've experienced.
I'm calm and have always been respectful in my interactions with her...I use the board here to vent and let all this awful stuff out. I guess it's been new for me to connect more with the anger part. That question of forgiveness to myself and her is a central one in this, I know. I just don't think I'm there at this point. Everything feels very raw and exposed. But you are right that eventually, that is going to need to be a part of my healing process.
Bruce--others have told me that during this process I've really made a lot of excuses for her and taken all the blame on to myself. I see my mistakes and neglect in the R. for sure. I must say that I don't feel that any of them were so treacherous as to warrant this process and outcome...and I've been really critically looking at them.
This has been another pretty restless day for me. I feel like I've spent the day mainly trying to distract myself, but having a hard time not thinking about all this. The house feels very empty tonight and I feel the same, like I am out floating in a dark, stormy sea by myself.
My last metaphor of the stormy sea reminded me of a song that captures some of how I feel sometimes.
This is part of the lyrics from Blue October. The song is "Into the Ocean"
Now floating up and down I spin, colliding into sound Like whales beneath me diving down I'm sinking to the bottom of my Everything that freaks me out The lighthouse beam has just run out I'm cold as cold as cold can be be
I want to swim away but don't know how Sometimes it feels just like I'm falling in the ocean Let the waves up take me down Let the hurricane set in motion... yeah Let the rain of what I feel right now...come down Let the rain come down
Where is the coastguard I keep looking each direction For a spotlight, give me something I need something for protection Maybe flotsam junk will do just fine the jetsam sunk, I'm left behind I'm treading for my life believe me (How can I keep up this breathing)
Not knowing how to think I scream aloud, begin to sink My legs and arms are broken down With envy for the solid ground I'm reaching for the life within me How can one man stop his ending I thought of just your face Relaxed, and floated into space
I want to swim away but don't know how Sometimes it feels just like I'm falling in the ocean Let the waves up take me down Let the hurricane set in motion... yeah Let the rain of what I feel right now...come down Let the rain come down Let the rain come down
Great song; thanks for sharing that. Music has helped me too, both in terms of finding joy and feeling pain.
You really sound like you're doing pretty well under these trying times. This is one of the most emotionally and physically challenging things a person can face, so pat yourself on the back a bit.
I agree with you that whatever your and my faults as spouses, we didn't deserve this. We should have the chance to work things through with our wives, provided they are really willing to own up to their failings and work too. And that's the kicker isn't it? I do agree that one person can potentially change the dynamic of a relationship, which is one reason why we need to do our work (but the main reason for doing our work is to improve ourselves), but in the end if they want to run that is going to be the reality of the situation. We couldn't force them to marry us, nor can we force them to stay married to us. Which brings me back to the question that keeps nagging me--do I really want to be with someone who runs from a relationship rather than works through things, who flees rather than holds a commitment to our relationship through thick and thin? I was guilty of downplaying and ignoring problems, as many men are, but now the lights are on.
If now is too late for my wife, then that's her decision and I will have to live with the consequences of my shortcomings over the years and her refusal to see if we can find a way through the hard times. All this work has shown me many flaws in her as well, and in the way we interacted. That adds another layer of complexity. If she suddenly said she wanted to see if we could work on things, I'd be willing to listen, but I realize more than ever what I need from her, and it's by no means clear to me that she can provide it. I guess all this uncertainty comes from being apart from her for eight months with minimal contact and no really serious talks about R.
Make it a good day. Perhaps you and I have learned some lessons and will move on to other people. The key, I've decided, is to do the work on ourselves and let the other pieces fall where they may. Eckhart Tolle has a wonderful saying which basically advises us to pay attention to our inner worlds and the other stuff will take care of itself. I take that to mean don't be desperately looking for love. Instead, become the most wonderful, loving, passionate, interesting person you can be, and someone will find that attractive.
Great song; thanks for sharing that. Music has helped me too, both in terms of finding joy and feeling pain.
You really sound like you're doing pretty well under these trying times. This is one of the most emotionally and physically challenging things a person can face, so pat yourself on the back a bit.
I agree with you that whatever your and my faults as spouses, we didn't deserve this. We should have the chance to work things through with our wives, provided they are really willing to own up to their failings and work too. And that's the kicker isn't it? I do agree that one person can potentially change the dynamic of a relationship, which is one reason why we need to do our work (but the main reason for doing our work is to improve ourselves), but in the end if they want to run that is going to be the reality of the situation. We couldn't force them to marry us, nor can we force them to stay married to us. Which brings me back to the question that keeps nagging me--do I really want to be with someone who runs from a relationship rather than works through things, who flees rather than holds a commitment to our relationship through thick and thin? I was guilty of downplaying and ignoring problems, as many men are, but now the lights are on.
If now is too late for my wife, then that's her decision and I will have to live with the consequences of my shortcomings over the years and her refusal to see if we can find a way through the hard times. All this work has shown me many flaws in her as well, and in the way we interacted. That adds another layer of complexity. If she suddenly said she wanted to see if we could work on things, I'd be willing to listen, but I realize more than ever what I need from her, and it's by no means clear to me that she can provide it. I guess all this uncertainty comes from being apart from her for eight months with minimal contact and no really serious talks about R.
Perhaps you and I have learned some lessons and will move on to other people. The key, I've decided, is to do the work on ourselves and let the other pieces fall where they may. Eckhart Tolle has a wonderful saying which basically advises us to pay attention to our inner worlds and the other stuff will take care of itself. I take that to mean don't be desperately looking for love. Instead, become the most wonderful, loving, passionate, interesting person you can be, and someone will find that attractive.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
Thanks for your message, and I am trying to get closer to that place you describe, though I feel it is still a long ways off.
As an update, my W. sent an email late last night with some reflections on our MC session last week. She was really pretty defensive throughout it, saying she felt singled out and blamed for so much of the relationship problems. I was really surprised to read this as I thought the MC has been incredibly supportive and validating of her. Felt to me like there was quite a bit of projection and very little responsibility taking, though it was not attacking.
She inserted a short paragraph in the middle of the email that read
"At another level, you have really been taking care of yourself and, in fact, working on yourself -- for you -- and probably a little bit for me. I want to tell you how much I respect what you're doing. I admire your commitment to put some things in order, which in turn, impacts your level of confidence and sense of yourself, which I have seen and appreciated on numerous occasions. The work you are doing on yourself is very attractive."
But it was then sandwiched between all kinds of listings of problems and frustrations, so it was a very minor part of the overall message. She says she feels an incredible burden on her shoulders re: what next from here. She wanted to connect and get feedback on her message but wasn't sure if we should do this via email or go for a walk. I sent her a message which responded to a few of the things she said and suggested that it might be easier to talk through some of the other parts together with a walk. She's leaving on her trip tomorrow, which is why she wants some kind of contact today.
I just tried to validate her feelings where I could on things and gently bring in my perspective, gently tried to balance out things where I thought it was really distorted. I personally think she's on the defensive because the MC really touched on some of her issues that are hard to see, and that it is very hard for her to accept that some parts of how she has handled this really are her responsibility. But the MC was so supportive and gentle with her, I was like--"what's all this going on?"
W. emailed back to thank me for my "caring and thoughtful" response to her message. We are going to meet later this afternoon to go for a walk and talk.
I feel good about my response to her, that it was honest and gentle but not sucky. But I would look so much more forward to a get together with a sense that there is some desire to actually engage and work on things vs. just talk about the problems historically.Ugh. My back is tensing up.
I will try for some PMA, but I do feel so resigned. Why is she even bothering with this?? It feels like this is just a prolonged exercise for her to feel less guilt so she can leave, not because she is even in the slightest considering reconciling. Well guys, wish me luck.
