My wife keeps talking about "one of us needs to move out" and I'm not going anywhere. I'll take the cue from you, my man. I am very sorry you are no longer at home, but your words have helped out some of us here who are in the same messed up place.
My wife keeps saying she feels smothered and has had some of the same complaints as yours (I was controlling, abusive, a bad husband and father, etc.). She even has done the BS like your wife with the OM ("he really gets me" and "we really have a connection"). I feel your pain and I feel your story is a lot like mine, my friend.
Hang in there and know you've emboldened me to tell my wife that she can be the one who moves out if she really needs the space, because I don't need "space" so I ain't movin'.
Hey I was once in your shoes, shell-shocked really. Not knowing where to turn. I turned to DBing pretty late in the game, actually. So you are doing very well if you are already here.
Let me tell you something: you will slip up repeatedly. You should know that right now. You ever play basketball? hockey? Football? You mess up constantly. In a rare moment, you do exactly what you want to do, you make the play you envision in your head. It's perfect. But it's rare. On most plays, pretty much every play, you don't do it perfectly. You mess up. You mishandle the dribble. You don't block the guy you're supposed to block. You strike out. And then? You get up and try again.
That's what DBing might be like for you. And because it is no new to you, you just started, and you are in a very stressful situation, you're likely to not get it perfect at first, to say the least. The key thing is to not get down on yourself. Stick to the principles. Stick to what works. And keep trying. Never give up. Never lose hope. Stay patient.
I found, in the beginning, it was helpful to remind myself every morning of what I wanted to do. I'd read a little thing every morning reminding me to stay detached, stay calm, stay patient.
You too will find the formula that works for you.
Why is patience so important? Because your wife will behave in ways that confuse you. Because you will mess up. Because external factors will interfere (other man, relatives, etc). Because it's just darn hard and rocky road. So patience with yourself and your spouse is critically important.
As to EXACTLY what you should do? I don't know, because I don't really know your situation. BUT, if you want to get some interaction, I suggest you start a thread, maybe in the newcomers forum, describe what's happening. Then ask some specific questions.
Of course I'm happy to swap stories with you right here.
Do you think it is MLC? What makes you say so?
Did you read the DR book?
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Something you ought to consider - call up and get some time with the DB coaches. It is expensive, like $390 for 3 sessions, but these people are professionals and they are very wise. It is a good way to bootstrap your efforts, if you can afford it.
Regarding: "one of us needs to move out" .
This is tricky.
#1. if you consider moving out (and I'm not recommending it), see a lawyer and discuss it thoroughly, BEFORE you move out. Take a lesson from me.
#2. this is a trap for you! If you agree, then you are moving apart physically. If you disagree with her request, then you are arguing with her and alienating her emotionally.
Your challenge is to validate her concerns (active listening), without getting railroaded out of the house. "Yes, I hear you, you think that one of us has to move out. Wow. Let me think about that. I hear what you're saying, totally. But it seems like such a big step. I'd like to think about it. "
(Buy yourself a couple days)
By all means, you must avoid arguing with her. If you feel yourself or her getting hot under the collar, ask for a timeout. Withdraw from the conversation. "I don't feel ready to talk about this calmly." And take a breather. Things said in the heat of the moment can spoil the relationship.
Then if/when she brings it up again, you will have had time to calm yourself on the topic. You will have had time to speak to advisors. The DB coaches can be worth the money in this case.
Some other words of caution: be careful taking advice from friends + family. They will often "take your side", feel protective of YOU, and advise you to protect YOU. But they may not be thinking of how to save the marriage. They may feel like you are being insulted or mistreated and they will want to stop it, even at the cost of ruining your marriage. So please do be careful.
Also be careful even TALKING to friends/family about your situation. It can poison the well for later. You don't want everyone gossiping about yoru situation. You don't want throw your wife under the proverbial bus. Pick a friend, maybe one or two, who you can trust. Ask them to not speak of this to anyone. No gossip. Ask them to just listen to you, but it is IMPERATIVE that they do not talk to anyone else about your troubles. Seriously. Lots of people promise to keep secrets. This is really important that they do.
If you haven't found someone close to you that you can confide in (not your parents!), you should find someone, soon.
Finally, NEVER argue in front of your child.
Maybe you have specific questions. I'll stop rambling.
Thank you for the replies and I think I am going to post a thread this morning.
I read both of your responses and I agree totally and will be careful on the moving out situation for sure. Also, the athletic analogies really hit home. Who else but a former jock would be able to understand stress, pressure, and performance? Thanks for the great visuals and the trip down memory lane when things were pretty good.
As for Mid-Life Crisis, I'm pretty sure it is one for my wife because even though she is only 37, she had a MAJOR life change last May which is when all of this started for us.
My wife has battled Endometriosis since she hit puberty and in May she had a hysterectomy which left her feeling "broken" (her words). I'm convinced this has thrown her into an early MLC because she told me in August she didn't love me any more, that I was an awful husband, she lost 15 pounds, changed her wardrobe completely, and started the emotional affair (with passionate kissing, but no sex) with the man at work.
For my part, what I've done since August is get my rear into counselling and began to work on myself and saving the marriage. However, I will admit it took me a LONG time (2 1/2 months) to stop blaming her and looking closely at me. I really started to get serious when I discovered the emotional and physical affair.
Since that time, we've been on a roller coaster where one day I'm in good standing and the next day I'm a reincarnation of Satan. The inconsistency, the affair and my wife's massive consumption of wine on a daily basis have kept me off balance and kept her from facing facts.
Now, I'm just going through my peaks and valleys and trying to read everything I can about my issues, our issues, and hers. I'm pretty convinced it is MLC just by all the signs, but who really knows?
I've read the DR book and I have it dog-eared and underlined for quick and easy reference.
As I mentioned above, I'm going to start my own thread today, but I'd really enjoy continuing to swap stories with you, if you don't mind. I know I'm new to the game and unfortunately you have been playing for longer, but in the short time I've received correspondence from you, it has made sense and helped my thought process along with steeling my resolve.
Sure thing, Rob! I'm here. I don't have all the answers, but there's a good group here, we all support each other.I never thought I'd be part of something like this, but now that I am here, I get a lot of value out of the support.
About the rollercoaster - that's par for the course.
You think she is checked out, but she is watching you from her alien world. It's likely that deep down, without her admitting it, she wants what any woman + mother wants - a stable, reliable, solid man for a husband and father of her child. Even while she is doing her MLC dance.
A husband prone to begging, pouting, crying and pleading is not what she wants. Almost unfair, but what she wants (secretly, but deeply) is for you to stand for her while she falls completely apart. She wants someone who is clear headed under pressure, stable and reliable, regardless what she says now. Can you be that person? That means, Go to work. Do your job. Come home. Be the parent. Let her know where you will be. Act as if. Love your daughter limitlessly, ravenously. can you do that? Your W's moods, erratic behavior and drinking need not get you off track. Her mood need not dictate your mood.
You can't really get "off" the rollercoaster, but you can prepare for it and strap yourself in so that you don't get tossed around so much.
On the W drinking - that's her thing. I'd advise you to mostly stay out of it, don't confront her on it, don't demand she stop, don't nag her about it. Don't cut out articles about excessive drinking and leave them around for her to see.
For my part, when my wife was drinking too much, I stopped drinking with her, I stopped buying it and stocking it in the house, but I did not pour any of it out. I did not nag her or even raise my eyebrow when she kept filling her glass. But I didn't hang out with her when she drank, either. I let her handle it. Eventually she stopped drinking on her own. When she stopped, she said it was causing her to gain too much weight. Bullspit. She knew she had a problem. But I did not confront her on this. I just said, "oh, yeah, that's a lot of enpty calories." Just supporting her.
Drinking was never the main problem for us. Now she is drinking moderately. The way I handled the drinking - a gentle and indirect approach - not active discouragement, but total lack of encouragement for her drinking, I guess - I think it is a good pattern: you take care of your side of the street, let her take care of hers. That approach can work in other situations, too.
And in the big picture, that is the only thing that will work for the affair, too. You cannot end it. Confronting her on it, demanding that she stop, nagging her about it -- all counterproductive. It's ok to tell her how you feel about her in the marriage, about commitment and family values and all.
Yes, YYOU cannot end it. Only SHE can end it. Huge lesson for me. I tried ending my wife's affair. I wanted so badly for it to be over. I demanded she change her cell phone number. I told her to suspend her secret email account. I read all about ending affairs and directed what we'd do. All this time she was shellshocked at my having discovered the infidelity. And so she did all that I said, took all the concrete steps to ending the affair, and at the time I was glad. But the problem was, the effort and intention didn't come from within HER. It came from me. And so 2 problems: 1. the affair wasn't REALLY over. She went right back to him, secret calling cards, more secret email, and all that. 2. she felt controlled by me, and really resented it. The fact that I told her how to stop the affair - It made her want to have an affair more strongly. weird as that sounds.
So what I am saying is, if the marriage is to survive (and I know just reading that is probably hard for you now), she's going to have to take a decision, make a choice, and live with that intention. You cannot do it for her. Trying to do it for her will not work. All you can do is gently, gently show her the way.
Even though it is heartwrenching and nauseating that she has left your marriage, you can console yourself in the knowledge that these things do not last. Affairs burn out. All wise counselors say it, but the people experiencing the betrayal still don't get it. I certainly didn't. Here's your job: ride out the storm. Don't freak. Don't fly off the handle. Ride it out. Wait, and work your side of the street. The affair will end, bank on it. Freaking will cause more damage than the affair.
It seems like it will never end. They seem so sure in their "love". My W had finally found her "soulmate" after all those eyars of wandering in the desert that was our marriage. I started believing her. It was all false. The physical affair has ended. OM moved on to fcuk other women. the emotional affair is dying too. I should have waited more patiently. It was excruciating.
This is why DB principles say: Do not initiate relationship talk. They need to take the initiative on their own. If they do initiate an R talk, then you follow. But follow gently. Don't take the lead. Be careful with the truth, since too much honesty all at one can be overwhelming. Let them take the action. That's what you need for a healthy marriage. You need your spouse to take constructive action on her own.
anyway getting back to the rollercoaster - do stuff you love. Get some exercise. Spend an hour every day doing something that helps you feel comofortable and happy. That will help you deal with the inevitable ups and downs. I won't call them surprises, because, ... you know it's coming. you just don't know what exactly is coming. it's like weather. It's coming, and there's nothing you can do about it, so just be prepared to deal with it. (Maybe that analogy doesn't work if you are in arizona someplace where the weather is always the same? but you get the point.)
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
My best buddy, met him in college, I love this guy, anyway, we came from two different places. My dad drove a truck delivering bread every morning, then moved into insurance sales and from there into investment management and advising. sort of a self-made guy, seat-of-the-pants approach, never got a college degree, never was much for reading (that I saw).
My bud's father was an engineer, certified and registered. Worked on real engineering problems, margins of safety, equations, specifications, regulatory compliance, etc. Ongoing professional education.
Anyway this buddy of mine went on to work as an engineer himself at a Dept of Energy plant - lots of control and oversight, the very highest engineering principles. I went on to work in software, which calls itself an engineering discipline but is really about craftwork.
interesting study in contrasts. I am trying to apply my buddy's sense of discipline and rigor to my current problems, rather than fly seat-of-the-pants, which is what I had been doing, and which is not working.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Great thread. Sorry - can not really add much, but I just wanted to indicate that you seem to have a pretty good grasp on this stuff. Additionally, your sitch is very similar to mine - ages, OM, snooping, etc..
However, my W moved out last Feb, while you still live together - correct?
Me: 48 Ex-W: 45 M: Nov '96, together since Oct 93 Bomb: on 10-yr anni - Nov '06 OM Separated: mid-Feb '07 Divorced mid-July '08 One daughter - 28 XW living w/OM
Thanks again. I'm really glad I found someone like you to help and I can only hope that I'll be able to pass it on to others in the future.
I am finding it very hard to stay out of this emotionally and act like I don't care. I know the best thing to do is to distance myself is to step back, but you are right, it is excruciating!
I'll continue to work on being consistent, acting "as if" she wants to see me and be with me, always put on my "happy face" in public, and dote on my daughter. I know the DB book says to be mysterious with your schedule and whereabouts, etc., but I'm having trouble with that one. It seems so dishonest to me. However, if it is what I need to do, I'll do it.
I'll definitely take your advice and not address the drinking, but I also won't enable it. Good words to follow.
For now, I need to be confident and consistent around her which is definitely harder than it sounds. Thanks for the words.
The real test comes tonight as I head home from a week in Washington, DC with some students. She told me last night she didn't love me any more and she was really pissed at me right now for the past, my anger, my spying, you name it. I'll have roughly 4 hours to get my mind ready to not discuss us and act "as if" she is elated to get me home. I've done some acting in the past, but I think this is without a doubt the most challenging role I'll ever be asked to play.
SPM, in the past day or so, you have been an invaluable resource and friend to me and I can't thank you enough. I'm looking forward to continuing our conversations and support after I get home.
If you ever want to e-mail me you can reach me at regwinn@msn.com. Also, if you ever get to Arizona, your first multiple beers are on me!
