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[fb2]

On the Db'ing front you carry on as normal. In your next chat with W you can let her know that you/lawyers are dealing with the legal stuff sensibly, but in the meantime you and her can still progress things in a friendly manner. This gets her to see there are two sides to events, legal stuff and personal stuff.

It seems to me that each time things get a bit more cordial W brings up the financial stuff so she can get me to agree to something on the side; and I did do some of this for the sake of peace. I think both lawyers see thru' her BS tho' her lawyer is rather slow on the uptake and W has come to hate her and I think is a bit scared of the legal process overall since it came back to hit her. But yes one of my challenges is to make her see the two separate streams and hopefully focus on the the personal.

My lawyer is on maternity leave for the next 3 months. She has a substitute who an handle things. But I'm wondering if I should ask her to put things in a holding pattern now till she's back so I can focus on the 'personal' and tell W that things are on bold because by L is away. Any thoughts??

[fb2]

Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because s/he is hurting and scared.

W has cooled off considerably these days and I can talk to her directly instead of thru' e-mail and the kids. My fear is that maybe W has overcome the guilt, fear and negativity, and is quite comfortable where she is emotionally and financially. For example the kids tell me she has a 42" HDTV which we never had before. Perhaps her cooling off comes from association with "enablers" other than the OM - like the divorced woman she hangs out a lot with and others at her workplace rather than from my changes. She'd stopped going to church after she filed the D and still stays away. These are all bad signs.

Regardless I will continue with the LRT and the validation and try to be patient but now I feel the need to "read the tea leaves" correctly and move things to the next level if possible. I feel I need some goals and to make sure I'm making progress in the right direction. I don't want to be enabling W to go along the D path by what I'm doing. For example I'd like to see the day when W will mention R or even invite me into her apartment for some reason or at least initiate a meeting with her for some reason.

Is there anyone else in a very similar sitch? I hope more wise DBers in addition to lanzo will read my sitch and HELP!!!!

[Lanzo]

Sorry to keep popping up, but I did say I'd ride this roller coaster with you. (yes, I also felt the same frustration as you).

For example I'd like to see the day when W will mention R or even invite me into her apartment for some reason or at least initiate a meeting with her for some reason.

Err..... in my opinion you are still a long way from this, at the moment this would be a big ask of W, a big jump rather than a baby step. I think to get W interested in you, you will need to take an interest in her. Example, W's 42" HDTV, could this be a conversation point ? could you possibly talk to her on a level that she understands about the merits of the TV? If you got her excited about it do you think she would show it off to you. You see for W to invite you to her apartment she would need to see you as an interesting friend rather than her stbx and all the baggage that comes with it. Yes to make progress you need to become her friend (urgh!!! )

Keep throwing different bits of bait and see what she bites on, see what get her interested.

Well that's my take on things I'm sure others could put it another way.

[fb2]

Lan, But for your popping up I'd have given up long ago. If you get a chance please also comment on #1331549 above. Thanks as always.

[Lanzo]

My lawyer is on maternity leave for the next 3 months. She has a substitute who an handle things. But I'm wondering if I should ask her to put things in a holding pattern now till she's back so I can focus on the 'personal' and tell W that things are on bold because by L is away. Any thoughts??

I wouldn't tell W that things are going on hold, I would more likeky ask her what her opinion would be to things going on hold, etc, etc (you fill in the blanks). This does a couple of things, it validates W by asking for her input, and it shows that you are handling a difficult situation with compassion. If W wants to plough on regardless then she should have no quarms about the final outcome.

Lan

[fb2]

Keep throwing different bits of bait and see what she bites on, see what get her interested.

Lan, I've been focusing on the S7 topic with moderate results; she's met with me several times on this; but I'm running out of ammo on this subject and I would have liked her initiating a meeting or 2. Have to be careful what other bait I throw out as it may appear pursuing or not worth her time. But as you suggest will try the TV and other triva just for size (did a bit of this over the phone last time we talked). However I'm tiring and my patience is being sorely tried that's why I wanted a realistic reading of where I'm at. From what you're saying there's a hell of a long way to go and I hope its not too much of a long shot. If anyone runs across a more similar sitch where someone has succeed please let me know so I have something to go by. Most of the success stories seem to have lesser odds where the couple is in D or S and not D and S. It would also help to have some input from women in these situations.

[Lanzo]

Hi fb2,

I've had a long think about this and this is what I've come up with, your W sees your changes, your new upbeat relaxed attitude, but what she doesn't see is you moving on. So at the moment she can chat all kinds of sh*t to you, but at the end of the day she still knows you will be there to take it. So to her you're still a sounding board, a doormat or a punch bag (ouch).

If I look into my sitch the two things which turned things round for me were me telling W that I was done with the M, and I was serious. The other thing was through my best pal I've hooked up with a group of guys who are real party animals, real playas, not my usual type of pals. This is something which has caught W attention so anytime I'm out with them W wants to know where we've been, what we've been upto etc.

What I am saying to you is W needs to see that you're out there again, you need to slip into conversation that your social life is on the up. OK I know money is tight but I think you need to show her that you can and will live life to the full without her.

Think about it.

[ann25]

Hi fb2 -

I agree with Lan - It's obvious that W sees that changes in you, that's where her change in behavior comes from. You are being nicer and more understanding so she is as well. Problem is I don't see you doing a whole lot of GAL activites (unless you just don't post much of that).

Read through the success stories. Look on the seperated/divorced forums and I think at the begining there are success stories. Those would probably be closest to your sitch.

This is a long road. You really have to decide if you want to go through with it because if you only do it halfway, you aren't going to see any positive results. I know you can do this. It seems hard and probably like a lost cause half the time, but it'll be worth it. Even if you never rekindle things with your W (which i'm hoping is not the case), how much better is your R with her now, then it was when you got here? Have you been doing some 180s? have you been doing stuff for you to make you a better person? Have you learned something about Rs in general. This is all good stuff. So, worst case Senario.... this is still a good thing to be doing. From what I've read, you'll know when you are done. For me, I'm going to be here for a really long time if it takes that, for others, there is only so much they can handle. How much time are the years you spent together worth now? 3 months? 6 months? a year? longer? that's up to you!

Hang in there.

[jmw128]

For me, I'm going to be here for a really long time if it takes that

That's me. I think I could wait an eternity. In the meanwhile, you better find something to do other than think about the WA. And make it something you can live with permanently, otherwise you are just wasting your time.

[fb2]

Thanks Ann. It seems more that I see changes in W and I'm not sure what to make of it tho' I'll go with Lan's and your assessment for now that her changes are more a result of my changes rather than her getting comfortable with her sitch. But she is a tough nut to crack so if anything it will take me longer than most.

I don't GAL much because resources (time and money) are very limited as I have your kids I get every other week and I've got to spend all my time with them and in the alternate weeks I have to catch up on everything else. I do sometimes make it to the gym or to friends houses. But that's it - nothing wild like bars, dancing, dating, etc. which I don't much care for anyway.

Can anyone suggest something to do as far a 180, etc. ? I'm at a loss. I thought I'd lie low for a few days and see if she initiates the next meeting based on my efforts so far. But that's all I can think of.