Quoting luvhubby:Thats the hard part because I think that as a couple we should try to fix whats bothering the other. I don't know how to fix this problem alone and I don't know how things are ever going to get better if I'm not allowed to even talk about it.
I know exactly how you feel luvhubby. If my wife were to let me know anything I could do to make her happier, I know that I would give it my best shot. All she'd have to do is ask. Yet I've asked, begged, and cried, and now I have to resort to shutting up and holding all of my feelings inside. It doesn't seem fair does it.
Feel free to vent your frustrations on here any time. I understand what you're going through and I'll gladly rant with you.
I had a breakthrough the other day, that is, after a long pleasant conversation over a romantic (whoops! I said the “R” word) dinner for our 15th anniversary my wife let out a bit of information that has given me a foothold in making change. It is a difficult foothold to stand on, however. She basically said that she feels we are out of sync in terms of our spiritual connection and that the differences in our core values is too great for her to feel that connection, which she needs to feel attracted to me. She says that often when we have a deep philosophical or academic discussion (non-confrontational) that she feels more attraction for me, not quite enough to feel sexual but more than on a typical day. She also offered (on her own!) that she understands that I am a physical person and is sorry that I am not getting nearly what I need in terms of intimacy. The fact that we even talked about it was a huge step although during the conversation I felt sick to my stomach because I knew the it could have led to a split up if I wasn’t extremely careful with my words.
Her personality and belief system has changed considerably since we got married. We both used to be very conservative and religious, I a bit more than her. We both have become a lot less conservative; she is almost as far opposite where we were when we got together as she could be (oddly the one area she is still quite conservative is in terms of sexuality...it just kills me!). Her belief system has done a 180 degree reversal but I haven’t kept up with the speed of her “evolution”. I’d say I’m lagging about 5-8 yrs behind. At the current natural rate of progress, I’ll never catch up and she will fly off into space without me.
So folks, here’s the deal: Can I change my core values out of love for my wife to allow a more harmonious relationship? There really is no guarantee that she will be more interested in building a closer relationship but I feel it is a pretty solid investment. Unfortunately, to begin with, in her “enlightened” view of the world, marriage is an antiquated tradition that has little positive reasons for existence. That’s a big problem because I value our relationship/marriage above all other possible things in life and a exuberant sex life along with it. She says she could be just fine if the human race gave up sex tomorrow and she had to go without for the rest of her life. My opinion is quite the opposite. I start losing my sanity after a month, a week or two I get antsy.
It still seems bizarre that you could admire, respect, appreciate, care for someone that you’ve committed your life to and yet not feel attraction to. Basically, if we were to meet each other at the stages we are at now there is no way we would get together. On one hand, this at least gives me a reason to contemplate why she feels little connection. On the other hand what she is essentially compelling me to change is possibly such a central part of who I am that it may not be possible to accelerate the necessary change to catch up with her. I did tell myself that if there was ANYTHING I could actively do to improve our intimate relationship I would absolutely put effort into it. But is it even possible to change one’s core values by shear will and force of decision? Certainly I can try to have a more open mind about the issues she cares about; that’s easy but to actually say, ok I don’t believe that anymore, I believe this...Very tall order, y’all. Also tied in with this is the level of conservativeness in my family is about 50 years behind and how do I really want my kid to be raised?
Could I fake it for the sake of us and still live with myself? I really need some help from y’all on this one.
Quote: Certainly I can try to have a more open mind about the issues she cares about
so you can have more of these...
Quote: She says that often when we have a deep philosophical or academic discussion (non-confrontational)
leading to more of this...
Quote: she feels more attraction for me
.
Don't worry about the big changes you think you'll have to make. Start small with just having the conversations.
Oh yeah. Ignore this...
Quote: Unfortunately, to begin with, in her “enlightened” view of the world, marriage is an antiquated tradition that has little positive reasons for existence. That’s a big problem because I value our relationship/marriage above all other possible things in life and a exuberant sex life along with it. She says she could be just fine if the human race gave up sex tomorrow and she had to go without for the rest of her life.
Quoting MPT:I think I'm getting a feel for why your wife has a hard time sharing her thoughts with you.
MPT,
I'm so sorry that what I said came across the way it did. Seeing your reply made me feel terrible. I actually wasn't trying to take a stab at you personally - I was trying to better explain why it's hard for me to see things from the "other side". But upon reading my post again I can understand your reaction. I think I let my frustration show through a bit too much.
MPT, you've been more help to me than anyone and I hope that I haven't ruined my chances of getting future input from you.
Aaaack!! That's not what I meant. Poor choice of emoticon on my part. I didn't take what you posted personally. I meant I was frustrated. This can be a good form of communication for some things and not so good for others.
I forgot you had written that your wife feels attacked. Not too surprising that you thought that is what I meant. I'm sorry.
Let me explain the source of my frustration. Maybe it will have some relevance to discussions with your w. When I try to give you some idea of what things may look like from another perspective, I'm not trying to convince you to take on that pov. I'm just trying to describe it to you. (Remember, you asked for it ) Often your response is to provide more info on your pov. It seems like a reasonable response...in a debate. It doesn't work if you're really trying to understand what makes someone else tick AND/OR trying to communicate that you want to understand them.
Understanding another person rarely involves explaining yourself to them. It involves listening to them, and I don't mean half-listening while you're generating arguments to what they have said. Reflecting what you have heard. Accepting it as their view, regardless of your own.
Now, I'm not trying to get you to understand me. That's irrelevant. Some of what I post isn't even my pov. It's your wife you said you wanted to understand. Do you or did you respond to her explanations of her pov, on any topic with emotional content, not just sex, with explanations of your own pov? Do your discussions turn into arguments or debates when this happens? Or does your wife just shut down and not want to discuss it anymore? Both are defensive reactions to not feeling understood.
You are both trying to feel understood by the other. However, when no one acknowledges the others pov as a valid pov, even if not their own, then no one feels understood. Who should go first with expressing understanding? Doesn't matter, as long as someone does. It might stop that tug-o-war game. You walk toward your wife instead of pulling back. Once she's recovered from having fallen on her backside because the tension is gone from the rope, she might be better able to reciprocate. Yes, I know, she could do the same for you. But she isn't right now and it is a royal pain in the a$$. I'd be saying the same thing to her if she were here...walk toward your h. But she's not here and you are.
The above is rather on the theory side of things rather than on specific suggestions. Would you like some specific things you might say or do which could communicate understanding?
Sleepily, MPT
P.S. For the record...I do understand that sex/ml is very, very important to you. You need it to feel fully connected to your W. Your m doesn't feel complete to you. It sometimes becomes overwhelmingly distressing. Yours is a valid position...for the simple reason that it is yours and it is a part of who you are. You do not need to explain it to me anymore. I understand.
Okay, now I understand. And you're right - I do often go into more explanation of my own point of view when in reality I should be listening to what my wife says and trying to understand her better. I'm a bit argumentative by nature (in case you hadn't figured that out by now) and that personality trait is probably my worst enemy when it comes to communicating with my wife. I'll pay closer attention to this in the future and try to be more of a listener and less of a talker when my wife tries to open up to me.
Thanks for your understanding and for taking the time to get this point through my head. And yes, I'd greatly appreciate specific suggestions as to how I can better communicate understanding.
) Often your response is to provide more info on your pov. It seems like a reasonable response...in a debate. It doesn't work if you're really trying to understand what makes someone else tick AND/OR trying to communicate that you want to understand them. 