I don't see anything wrong with your plan. You can monitor as you go along. Just make sure you stay upbeat around her, help her with things if she asks you to, still be a good friend and caring husband. I think you're on the right track based on the history you've given us.
First off, I think you should arrange for a consultation with one of Michele's people before you do anything.
If you decide to press the issue, and I don't disagree with your reasons, then be prepared for the fallout.
Reduce the situation to a few simple facts.
Are you willing to leave things the way they are?
Is it 'ok' for her to ignore your needs?
Are you meeting hers? Are you SURE?
If you decide that it your current situation isn't 'ok' (obviously, it isn't) and decide to push the issue, then you had better be prepared for repercussions. There is a chance that it will turn things around. There is a chance it will destroy the relationship.
What you really have to decide, is just how important is the sex/love portion of your relationship. If it will ultimately destroy the relationship anyway, then I wouldn't waste a minute in pushing the envelope. If you might eventually learn to accept "status quo", then you will probably want to back off.
We all like and want black and white decisions. Even when we make one that appears to be very clear and well defined, the results are often a shade of gray. You have a decision to make - Push and accept, or wait and accept. Spending your life going in circles, anger and despair to elation and hope, is no way to live. I did it for over 10 years. I will never be that patient for such a simple matter of choice, again.
You can't listen hard to my advice, though. My advice is from my perspective, not yours. As for making a decision, you will eventually have no choice in that matter. Your only real choice, is when you will decide to choose.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Yes MPT, I'm confused. And yes, I do want more opinions - yours definitely being one of them.
First, thanks to lowrob, wiley, and NOPkins for their comments - I'm pondering all of them at the moment. I realize they're somewhat different, but I actually agree with all of them to some extent. In reply to some of the points that NOPkins raised, I can't imagine going through the rest of my life without my wife. I'm tired of being miserable over our lack of intimacy, but by the same token I don't want to destroy our marriage. If I had to choose between a lifelong relationship with her without any hope of achieving the intimacy that I desire or no relationship with her at all, I'd choose to stay with her for the rest of my life. But the primary reason that I'm here is that I don't want to have to choose between the two. I'm just trying to find the best way to achieve the relationship that I want with my wife without losing her in the process.
With regard to "my latest plan" presented in my earlier thread, I think there's no doubt that I need to stop discussing the relationship with her, writing letters, asking her to read books, etc. I also think it might help to completely stop initiating anything physical. However, I'm not sure about avoiding or refusing goodbye kisses or about not saying "I love you" at the end of a call. Those things bother me a bit. Trying not to be alone with her and not calling unless I absolutely have to are also gray areas, although I don't think they're as potentially harmful as the other two. In short, I need all the advice I can get. My "plan" is by no means set in stone. I just want to do whatever has the best chance of helping.
If you look back at your own post you will find that you sounded much more positive in the beggining. Now you sound in despair. Perhaps you are trying too hard and your frustration is showing through to your W.
About your plan, just be careful that your W may not interpret it as 'loving' detachment. It may just confirm her belief (if she feels that way) that you are being nice to her for one reason only. She may also interpret you as trying to 'punish' her ie "if you don't satisfy my needs, I shall withold this and that from you". Also, you mentioned that some of the plan does not feel natural to you. My feeling is to avoid those that does not come naturally to you.
I have a link for you about how some low libido W's feel about their sitch. No Sex Drive At All All of them love their Hs and haven't the faintest clue on how to deal with the problem. I think communication is the key. Perhaps your W feels that way too and does not know how to communicate her feelings to you just has you are having difficulty communicating yours to her so do work on the communication process. Maybe your W is also struggling within herself about not being able to 'please' you but does not know how to tell you.
I hope things improve for you. As for me, I have decided to accept things for what they are and wait patiently. This has made H much happier but I think I have a long wait ahead of me.
Thanks luvhubby. I hadn't realized that my despair was showing in my posts, but you're absolutely right - I had a lot of hope initially. But it seems to fade a little bit every day. I'm a very "capable" person - I've always been able to do about anything I've ever set my mind to. So it's hard on me that I'm basically powerless to fix the one issue in my life that I'd most like to fix. I'm also a very honest person so I prefer to handle things in an upfront manner - I don't like resorting to reverse psychology to make my wife want me again.
I love my wife so much and I really want her to be happy. I don't want to do anything to make her miserable or to make her think that I don't love her or need her. I just want to be happy too.
Oh Sooner, I can't sleep so I thought I could either do some laundry...or not .
I definitely like number 1 of your plan. I also like #2 if your motivation is to provide space and not punishment. Respond in a subtle positive way to any physical contact she initiates, like with a smile. You want to reinforce her initiating contact without scaring her off.
The other thing this does is give her a little control back so that she can respond to her physical needs as they arise. I know you feel she's the one in control because she's been rejecting you, but from my experience it doesn't feel that way at all from the other perspective. First, your own body isn't doing what you want it to. Second, if your spouse is always initiating physical contact, and doing it fairly frequently, you don't get an opportunity to experience your own physical needs. You're always reacting to his. This could take some time for her to experience if this is the case for her. I know you've tried this before, but I don't think you've given it much time.
#7 you should do regardless of your sex life. (Although...seeing my H cultivate his r with his daughters warms my heart toward him.) The other stuff, do what feels right to you and look at your motivations and purposes. Luvhubby is right though, your w may misinterpret your intentions. You have no control over that, but if what you do doesn't have the effect you want...stop doing it.
One goal I think you should consider before the ultimate goal of increasing sexual activity is doing whatever you can to repair the battlefield that's been created over the sex problem. You guys have been having a tug-o-war game and the ground has gotten very messy. That's going to need some work, IMHO. Time and no arguments over sex might help.
Lots of laughter is usually a good idea too. My H actually used to make me laugh over the sex issue. The fact that he kept his sense of humor, didn't take himself too seriously (typical stance for him, keeps him mentally healthy) and was willing to let me laugh too was another thing that kept me looking for solutions. I don't think you're in a position to make jokes about the sex issue right now, but find other things to laugh about together. Make it a top priority to cultivate more positive feelings between the two of you. This is where you may want to think about not doing some of the things on your list. If it has the effect of producing hostility between you two, I'd recommend stopping. Just my opinion though. I tend to prefer the carrot to the stick.
One thing I noticed from one of your older posts I wanted to comment on. If your w is falling asleep in your daughter's bed and on the couch, see if you can wake her up and get her to come back to her bed. Not for sex, but because the quality of sleep is better. I speak from experience. I'd fall asleep in those same places and would keep waking up a little all night long, think "I need to get to bed," but then inertia made it hard to act on that thought. When I stopped that bad habit, I felt less fatiqued and less irritable.
I still haven't posted about the suggestions for what you can do for yourself without any change on the part of your spouse, but I'm getting sleepy.
Hi luvhubby, I've read through some of your posts. I don't know that I have anything new that I could offer you. Your h does seem to have a lot on his plate right now, but you also indicate that this has been a problem for longer than just recently.
But something in your posts leads me to ask you how are you are doing otherwise? Are you feeling okay?
Quoting MPT:But something in your posts leads me to ask you how are you are doing otherwise? Are you feeling okay?
Thanks for responding MPT. If not for this issue, I am very happy and have a good R with H and that is probably why I am so afraid to rock the boat. We laugh a lot together. He is also more affectionate now as compared to a few months ago. However, no passion for me. None whatsoever. H does not think that the lack of intimacy in our M is a problem and thinks I am crazy to complain about the 10% of unhappiness and risk giving up our 90% of happiness.
I know H is under a great strain as we are currently living under his one income but he works very hard to make sure we are doing ok. H is a wonderful father and we have lots of family time together. H does not understand why I am always talking about my individual needs, why I have to separate my needs from our family's needs since we spend a lot of happy times together as a family unit.
I think that H is dissapointed when I tell him that when there is no intimacy my emotional needs are not being met. Everytime I mention this issue it makes both of us unhappy and H feels very stressed and pressured by it. I don't know what else to do but to not press the issue anymore as I love H very much and stressing him up further is the last thing I want to do. H sometimes tells me to be patient and that things will get better but they never do. Something new always comes up and intimacy goes to the back burner again. H is always too tired and too busy. I think you have to make time for such things or you will never have the time, ever.
I don't know what else to do except to not mention this anymore and to try to do more for H so he would be less tired. And I shall be patient and wait but I do forsee a long, long wait.
Yeah, finally getting around to responding to this post. H has done all those things in the past. Sorry to say none of them really worked.
I agree with MPT that 1 and 2 are good choices although they made me feel sort of depressed when I realized H had given up. Even with him no longer initiating contact, we eventually fell into the same "we're not having sex fight". I think the other plans might just tick her off. I really disagree with the no more alone time. Counselor I saw a couple months ago, stressed the importance of time together, just the two of you. H and I still haven't followed that advice, but it does make sense. Your wife may see it as "Okay, he only wants to spend time with me if I'm going to have sex. I am right, he doesn't love me, he loves sex." Warped mind we LD spouses have isn't it?
Remember, it's an automatic response on our part. We can't help thinking that way once we have done it day in and day out for so long.
By pulling away completely from your W you may send the wrong message. Maybe if you talk to her and let her know that you are going to stop intiating and why, she might not take it the wrong way. She may be relieved or angry or maybe sad. Whatever her reaction, you can base your plan of "attack" on that. At least you'll know where she stands.
I also agree with whomever said not to do what makes you uncomfortable. If you are not to the point of no return yet, do what your heart tells you.
Hope I made some sense, I've got a toddler hanging on the back of my chair babbling about God knows what....Good luck again.
! Are you thoroughly confused yet? Do you want any more?