I was almost a WAW

[Dom R]

Awww.. more "bad timing", on your part of telling your dad about it, i guess. Your heart was in the right place, though.
That's important.

It's really nice to hear about a wife who really did, and does, care about her husband, even though there were many mistakes that you both are struggling through recovering from.


To answer your question about your husband:

So, why did he react the way he did when I told him I would have sex anytime he wanted to? ...
Or, was he saying that he "knew" in his heart that I was just making myself available without the feelings?

I think that's exactly it. Except as usual, he didnt "say" that.
If he actually said that he was "tired" of being rejected...
he didnt communicate that well. What he probably should have said, was "fear". But a "real man", doesnt tell his wife that he's afraid, yeah?
(note: a "real man" doesnt want pity about it, either!)

I dont think michelle covers this. (although I havent read "the sex starved marriage" book). Its more on the marriagebuilders side of things. About properly understanding "his needs".
If it was purely a "He wants sex more", then yeah, "do it anyway". Problem is.. that isnt all there is to it. And yes, he will be able to tell.

I think there there's a whole lot of interlinked stuff here.
To truely "solve" that issue where your husband wanted way more sexual frequency than you do... i think if you ever got to the point where you could use your body to "make your husband happy",and that in itself, made you happy, even if you werent sexually turned on... that would make him happy. To see, and thus know, that you enjoyed physically being with him, would help a lot.
(doesnt mean you should stop looking for your own "happy hour" though )

Trouble is, o course.. you're a loong way from that right now, and you probably cant just jump in.

Thats why I asked you how you felt about touching him, even though you said you felt creepy when he touched you.
If you're ok with touching HIM... maybe you could rub his shoulders or something sometime, and just see how you are with that.

[Corri]

Sandi:

Sweety. No offense. This board is the ultimate in venting and clearing thoughts. And I think DomR is trying to help you with that.

But what I see Cemar trying to do for you is to OWN your part of it... the only way change will come about is for you to OWN... and then DO something about what you own. THAT takes courage.

Cemar is really good for that. He can't figure out his own sh!t, but... the man... CAN help you.

Corri

[sandi2]

But back to the original question I had for you, How are YOU going to emtionally connect with him using HIS LL. All this TALKING stuff is for YOU, not for him. HE needs to focus on the talking stuff, what am I trying to get is for you to understand what YOUR focus needs to be, and it won't involve talking. And he really does not need to TELL you, cause I think that you already know what he needs.

I am still thinking about what you and Corri said.

[imLIN]

OK...I have to jump in concerning two points...AD's and ED

I think AD's can be very helpful...even in the restoration of a M/R....case in point my H...he was depressed....felt sick, physically....and has/had ED!...the Dr. put him on AD's...the first two didn't work for him...actually seemed to make things mildly worse...finally they found one that began to work...he felt better emotionally and physically...he also began to function better sexually!...while it isn't where he used to be it is functional...

Also, I for one have never made my H feel like less of man when things didn't work...I have always held fast that he is a great lover and I mean that in whole sense...the penis is NOT his whole self...while we both would like for things to be great we don't stress over it...we discuss it in ways that are constructive and I work with his abilities and don't complain about it...He is harder on himself and I often have to correct his point of view...

So anyway...Sandi...my point in this is that you very well should talk with your DR and see if there isn't something to help you...it might not be the first thing you try...but it is rare that nothing is found that works...I think in your sitauation...with the physical pain and the emotional pain you might actually have more positives then negatives...

Yes, sexual functions can be affected...but that can also be in an improvement if the emotions are better...not everything revolves around the genitals!...intimacy is more then sex...wayyyy more

I do agree that trying to talk with your H isn't the approach to take right now...when his needs start being met (it sounds like this really hasn't happened before in your marriage) then it will be time for him to see that he needs to start meeting your needs...the healing starts with one person...I know...I worked a long time alone in this...but it has been worth it to have my H join me again in our M!

Take care....Lin

[cemar2]

Sandi:

You really need to read "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" by Dr. Laura. It is specifically for LD women that wish to save their marriages by becoming more HD. I am not sure how that will work with you because of all your other conditions, but it is definitely a place to start.

You also have to realize that when it comes to sexual desire, women are teh OPPOSITE of men. What this mean is that you sexual drive is CAUSED by sex. In effect, to desire sex, you will have to have LOTS of sex. Not having sex will CAUSE you to NOT WANT SEX! Read her book, it will tell you all this. It will also tell you how to solve this problem, and it will NOT be easy.

As for not FAKING desire for your husband, I have no clue as to how to solve this one. Maybe one of the LD women on here has some useful experience. I would like to know the answer to that one as well. How does the LD women change the situation in a believeable way, when the HD man has gone for years KNOWING that he is not desired? I think that this is actually the hardest part of fixing a SSM. I have the same problem in my own marriage, How does the LD women make it BELIEVEABLE?

[RealJourney]

Cemar, I was just thinking about your question today. Now that things have normalized in my marriage, I find I have a hard time showing desire to my H. The reason is that I don't feel it. I'd rather have him engage me in some fantasy talk ( which really isn't his way). So, he's waiting to see some physical desire from me, and I am waiting to see some mental engagement from him. We have been through too much to play the waiting game, and somehow things get started, usually by him initiating in a physical way.

So how do I appraoch him, knowing this is what he wants, when I am not feeling it?

( Sorry, Sandi, for the hijack)

[sandi2]

Good morning everyone,

First thanks to imLin and Cemar for your last input. Thanks to all of you for what you have said. Some of you are so compassionate to me and I need that a lot. Some of you, DomR, are like my doctor or counselor (lol).....and I sure need that! Then, some of you kind of slap me in the face as if to say..."listen to me!" (lol) At first, well, to be honest it makes me a tiny bit angry b/c that slap does have a sting. But it does gets my attention. The thing is that I don't discredit it and it makes me think! There is one thing about all of you that I think have in common.....I think of all of you as a friend. I am serious. I think if you didn't care, you would not even bother to post anything. I know that it takes time reading these posts and time to send a message back. So, again, my thnnks to each of you.

The thing about my physical problem with Fibro is not just the pain in itself but how it affects or effects (I never know which spelling to use) the nervous system. Therefore, I tend to cry, etc. when I am in a "flare" which makes it worse all the way around. I have been doing a lot of thinking about that the past three days and I have decided that I am my own worst enemy. I expect too much of myself and beat myself up when I feel that I have let people down that "I think" depend on me....such as work, church, family, etc. I have stayed home from work when I may "could" have forced myself to go in spite of the pain level....but my nerves were so fragile that I was afraid I would break down and cry at the drop of a hat...and where I work, that would not do at all. So, I have missed a lot of work and that makes people there resent me even more. So, it seems like a "no win" situation. However, I am going to try something that may or may not work...that being...I am going to try my best to stop beating myself half to death when I am not able to function properly.

This leads me back to the subject of the AD meds. Would I be as emotional when I have a "flare" (which means when the fibro is intense) as I am now? I was before when I was taking them, but like I said, I couldn't tell they were doing much of anything positive for me b/c apparently I was not taking the right kind.

As I've stated in previous threads, I have always had a certain amount of depression, but I think that was due to the living circumstances and our MR. I was very unhappy. There were times that was better, of course, but over-all I was not a "happy camper" in our R. I tried to use positive thinking and spiritual techniques (if I should even use such a phrase) b/c I was taught that if we "believed" that anything could happen. Well, I tried but I failed....."I" failed...not God. It would be better for a short period of time....but then revert to the same old--same old.

I have been thinking a lot the past couple of days about my H's needs and how they were not met by me in our R. It breaks my heart, but I still need to do more thinking about the time slots in our 41+ years .....you know, you can't think about everything in a few hours...those are a lot of years!

I have been doing a lot of soul searching....that is hard. I have also been trying to think about what my H truly meant when he said that "I had not been there for him", then said that wasn't really how to state it, but that he didn't know how. So, I am thinking in my heart that what he really meant was that he had not felt "respect" from me. That is true. I must confess that....and I did tell him that I had not shown him respect the way I should have. I think that helped his feelings some....I hope it did. But, I plan, with God's help, when we talk again (when the timing is right) to tell him that I can see where I always compared him to others. In everything.....I can see where I compared him to other men. Now, I did not express that to him through "verbal" ways, but it must have come out in other ways that caused him to feel it and "know" in his heart that he did not measure up to my expectations. On the "outside" I thought I was "supporting" him, but in my "heart".....I wasn't. I realize that now. I can tell you.....it is humbling!

I think I told you all the worst thing I ever said to him.....about why I didn't know why he was complaining about our sex life b/c at least he always had a climax and that was more than I could say that I had ever had during sex. I didn't leave much to his manhood. Of course, that was after about 10 years of no sex at that point when I told him that. I was so fed up with him blaming me for lack of sex.....for rejecting him, etc. until I just spewed it out. He looked so hurt. He knew I had never climaxed......and as DomR pointed out to me....it made him feel like he had failed as a man by knowing that I had not enjoyed the experiece. I was so frustrated by him not explaining to me why he reacted that way the time--when I told him that I would be available to him for sex whenever he wanted it, and I did not want him to think he would be rejected......and then he just went cold on me. I could never understand that and it put up that "wall" even higher. It made me mad b/c he wouldn't explain to me and, as usual, I tried to guess at "why" he reacted the way he did. Well, I suppose my "guess" was way off base to the real reason. It probably sounded like I was doing him some big favor by making a "sacrifice" to him. Of course, I did not mean for it to sound that way.....I truly was trying to make our R work! I thought that was what he wanted! But, in my ignorance, I made things worse. We both need communication skills. He was always so introverted and it drove me crazy! In the early years, I was always trying to prode him and make him talk. Well, it just didn't happen, so I tried to "guess" at everything and it just went from bad to terrible!

Gee, I hope some younger people can learn from my bad mistakes. If anyone is reading this that has been doing the same thing with your S.....please stop before you distory everything. He told me one time that it hurt him to try to express into words about his feelings as bad as it would hurt me to keep everything bottled up inside. You see, I thought he would feel better if he would just talk about it. Well, just b/c that worked for me didn't mean it worked for everybody in the world.

You are right Cemar....I have been focusing on what I need and not on what he needs. In fact, when you first brought that up, I thought to myself, "I wouldn't have a clue as to what he needs b/c he won't talk". But, you hit me by saying that I really already knew. In my heart.....that is where I have to go to dig it out. And...it hurts bad. I have such a high wall built around me that it is going to be hard breaking it down...but I've got to do it. I just thought I had forgiven him, but I hadn't. The hardest part is to forgive myself for the pain I have caused him all these years.

It is no wonder he crawled into his cave and hasn't come out in so many years to pay any attention to me. Yes, it left me emotionally empty and craving for male attention and yes, I turned to another man, which was very wrong. I can try to justify myself for what I did, but it is still wrong. Yes, he hurt me.....a lot, and there were times that I thought I was trying so hard to improve our MR.....and he certainly did not respond the way I thought he would have. I still don't understand a lot of times in the past, but it must have had something to do with his own personal pain at the time. I may never know for sure just what was going on at that particular time. Maybe he saw me as trying to manipulate him. God! I never in my wildest dreams thought of that! I don't think I ever....ever meant to be doing that! I truly was just trying to make things exciting for him. Like the time I wore the sexy garments and he did not respond.....perhaps that was what he thought at the time. I couldn't think b/c I was too hurt and felt too rejected myself. It is all so sad. So sad! Why couldn't he just tell me.....if that "is" what he thought? I don't "know" that it is.......I'm "guessing" again! But it never entered into my mind until this very minute. It is mind blowing! At the time this happened, I don't recall having too much sexual problems. In fact, that was the times that seem to be better between us.......so, I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I brought it up to him once and he acted like he couldn't even remember it. Like I said.....it just blows me away. Please bear with me while I have a break-down here.

We both have been hurt a lot. It has certainly been a two-way street. I doubt that my pain has equaled to his. It amazes me to think how we have endured each other this long. We both have high walls built around ourselves for our own protection from each other. Oh dear God, how terrible sad.....what people do to each other that are suppose to be in love! I do love him....but I sure haven't shown it. My body rejected him.....my heart.....my attitude....actions.....speech....everything showed him that I did not accept him for who he was then and who is tody.

[Corri]

RJ:

So how do I appraoch him, knowing this is what he wants, when I am not feeling it?

You approach him and use him to kick start your desire. Meaning... you don't wait for him to make the first move... and I'm sure he would be willing to let you use him a bit while you get yourself going... because THAT is the goal.. kicking in your desire... not faking it.

Corri

[RealJourney]

Hey Sandi, Don't bother playing the " who hurt each other more" game. If you're the winner, and have hurt your H more, then you feel guilty. If he's the winner, and hurt you more, then you're the martyr. It's all subjective anyway, and it really makes no difference.

Okay, so we know both you and H have repeatedly hurt each other. Welcome to marriage...it's all par for the course. In a previous post I suggested to you the book Passionate Marriage. Now I suggest you run and get it ( I guess I fall into the " listen to me" category). The book is such a refreshing take on what really goes on, psychologically, in marriage. It gives hope for long standing marriages, as the author feels the capacity for intimacy increases with age if you can untangle the mess.

My other "listen to me" thing is to encourage you, once more, to consider the AD. As I have mentioned, I am someone who suffers from depression. For the most part, I am quite functional, but I have my moments. One of the things I do is that I save my despondency for when I am in the car. Then the tears come. I guess I feel safe there to let it out. I know to keep a box of tissues in the car, and this is my norm.

Recently it occurred to me that " normal" people don't do this. I had so used to my pathology, my norm, that I just accepted the car episodes as typical life for Journey. It was a real eye opener to discover that my car crying jags stopped after being on the AD.

I just think you are selling yourself short, so to speak, by not considering the AD option. It may not be right for you, but I say it's worth giving it a whirl.

[RealJourney]

Corri, thanks for the response. Time to start a thread.