Dear Cemar2 and DomR.....and the entire "Sandi's crew",
You guys are so sweet trying to help me...especially from a man's POV. Lord knows, I need all of that I can get. My man, however, does not talk about anything....remember? He does not have any interests....remember? He has no ambition.....remember? (Just trying to be funny here, not sarcastic.) How do you talk to somebody like that?
I tried to pull him into a coversation by asking him to tell me how I had failed at fullfilling his emotional needs. (This was back a few months ago. He sat there for (seemed like hours) several minutes and I was determined I wasn't going to say anything before he did. In our early years, I would only wait a few seconds and if he didn't answer right away...I would redirect my question. In my family, nobody "waited" before giving an answer! (lol) But, over the years, I have tried to practice waiting to give him several minutes to answer me. I knew what he was going to say before he even answered me. Sure enough, he looked at me and finally said, "Sandi, I don't guess I know how to answer that." I wanted to pull my hair and scream at him, but I didn't. I could have talked for days about all the ways he failed me....and he couldn't tell me one single way that I had failed him? Finally, he said, "Well, I don't know that this is a good way to express it, but I guess I would have to say that I never felt like you supported me". I nearly fainted from the shock. Didn't support him? I could write pages on top of pages of things that happen over the past decades that other people said that they would not have put up with and would have left him....even my own parents thought that over more than a couple of things that he did (and they loved him!) but I stuck by him and thought that was what I was doing.....showing my "support" for my husband. I tried not to "re-act" to what he said, but calmly asked him to expound on what he meant. Well, I should have known that was asking too much. He said, "I don't really know.....*support* wasn't the word I was looking for". A week or so went by and I tried to bring it up again (can't hurry him, you know) and asked him if he had thought of a better way to explain to me and he said....nope. So, that was how it was left. (He probably remembered it started with an "s" but it was *sex*...not support.)
You think I am kidding when I tell you that he doesn't talk about anything. My own father did not know how to talk to him, and my dad was a big talker. I wonder how we ever got married....after all...he was required to say "I Do" at the wedding!
Jumping ahead several years up to this past year when he found out about the OM and my EA......he started followig me around all over the house.....just watching me and asking me questions. I wonder how it felt to him to find out that I did not want to talk? Funny how the tables turned over the years. When he was doing all the "wrong things" after finding out about he OM, he told me he loved me while drivng back from dropping my mother off at her house.....and for the first time in our marriage, I did not respond to him. It made him furious!
I told him that he treated people in our church, our neighbors, and even strangers a lot nicer than he did me. If anybody else were to ask him a question....he would not think about ignoring them and staring at the TV set and never giving them an answer. So, I had decided that I was going to start showing him how it felt to be asked something and be totally ignored as though he wasn't on planet earth. Want to know how he answered me that time? He said...and I quote, "Oh, I don't do you that way EVERYTIME"! So, I very calmly told him, "Ok, then I won't treat you that way EVERYTIME, I'll just treat you that way SOME of the time". He got the message. He has not ignored me whenever I've asked him a question since that day. I should have done that about 40 years ago!
Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that I wasn't going through just MLC or some other isolated thing when I fell for the OM. (Oh, I don't think I really fall in love with the OM. I fell in love with what I wanted the OM to be!) But what I wanted to say here is this....I did tell my H at that time I had been emotionally "divorced" from him for a long time before the OM came into my life. He, however, told me he did not believe in that (emotionally divorced)......therefore, I couldn't be. So, back to my conclusion.....I still think I am emotionally divorced from my H (even if he DOESN'T believe in it). And, I have to look inside myself and admit that I do have the heart of a WAW.....still. I don't have the almost "panic" attacks of wanting the space so badly that I'm ready to walk out the back door. I have decided to stay....but that is why I can't get the "feelings" that I want....b/c I am still divorced from my H. I am still a WAW. And.......this is what I have been leading up to saying....I am not "in love" with him. I know that I'm not. Just b/c I decided to stay did not change that...and I think he thinks it did. Even though I told him last night in response to his "I love you" that I loved him, too.....I know I am not "in love" with him. I honestly don't know if he knows the difference....surly to goodness he does! I felt sorry for him when it was so obvious how badly he needed the phyical contact and some type of confirmation of love between us. It is so sad.....and yet it makes me have mixed feelings of feeling sorry for him and being mad at him for allowing this to happen. Oh, not all by himself.....but not all by myself did it happen either. He doesn't think he is to blame for anything that went wrong! How can he be so blind?
It makes me feel like this.....maybe it's NOT this way, but it is how it makes me feel, ok?.......Like, "Ok Sandi, you are the one who was always frigid and then became this fallen sinner who had a shameful on-line EA----while I, on the other self-righteous hand, have been the faithful, long-suffering, sex withheld, sweet husband that any woman would kill to have, that has done nothing wrong except love you in the 41 years of M."
Of course he doesn't say that.....I just feel like he is thinking it. Naturally, he would not agree at all.
So, ok, the "feelings" aren't going to come without the actions. That is what you are saying, am I right? So, is it like you have to decide, as Gary Smalley says, that you are going to love a person? Can you just "fall in love" with a person if you decide to do that? Because, I think I am going to have to fall in love with him in order to be able to have a successful "physical" relationship.....or any kind of successful relationship at all.
I DON'T WANT to hold on to the past! Please believe me when I say that I have tried to let go of it and not to think about it. What good would it do? I think my H has forgotten nearly everything that every happen.....the good and the bad. As I've said, I thought I had forgiven him......but if I have then why this resentment? I think we killed the love I had. I said WE killed MY love. I don't know why or how he still loves me. Oh, I know I'm beautiful, talented and sexy.....but that is just on the outside....it's the inside that counts...right? (Come on now.)
I need to go for a littel while. I'll try to come back later.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Sandi, Resentment that builds after many years of marriage is hard to shake off. It stays with you as you plow through the next step in your marital recovery. You ended the EA, which was a huge hurdle, but now there are new hurdles to face, equally challenging. In order to reconcile, you are going to have to connect with each other on a regular basis, even if you don't feel like it. That's how it worked for me, anyway...my H and I had lots of resentment towards each other ( and like your H he wasn't one to verbalize his feelings) but we came together to agree to a weekly date night. In the beginning those evenings were awkward and difficult. But it was a start.
You are going to have to get used to carrying around the resentment for awhile as you work on all this. It's like climbing a mountain ( the connecting part) with a boulder on your back ( the resentment). But in time, you can get to a new place and you are in awe of the view. And the boulder somehow got taken down along the way.
Hey Sandi, you had a very emotional post right now. totally understand you need to take a break.
When you come back.. i think you need to check out a non-db site: marriage builders. It addresses a side of things that DB does not. Your talk about wanting to fall "in love" with him, is the core of what their "love bank" principles are all about.
Ignore their forums (they're kinda nasty at times). Ignore most of the stuff they have. just go to the "basic concepts" part they have a link to, near the top of their pages, and then read up about the "love bank", and meeting "emotional needs".
(thats where the phrase comes from, fyi: lots of people here already know that, but sounds like you havent been "introduced" to that stuff
It describes pratical, experience-proven facts that yes, you CAN decide to (show) love to a person. But, whether you fall "in love" with them, is based on whether they show love back to you, in ways that fill your emotional needs.
They have a great "emotional needs" questionnaire, that you both should fill out. No more guesswork on him attempting to figure out what he is missing. it leads him through and helps him identify things more clearly. He really "doesnt know". but this will help him figure it out. It will also help YOU identify what things YOU are missing... and then let your husband know them more clearly, if he is interested.
Last edited by Dom R; 09/15/0712:51 AM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
[husband said] "I guess I would have to say that I never felt like you supported me".
I could write pages on top of pages of things that happen over the past decades that other people said that they would not have put up with and would have left him....even my own parents thought that over more than a couple of things that he did (and they loved him!) but I stuck by him and thought that was what I was doing.....showing my "support" for my husband.
actually.... that's not neccessarily "supporting him".
that's just "putting up with him". there's a difference. an important one.
it really wasnt/isnt about sex, Sandi. He actually opened up to you, and ACCURATELY described something that he needs from you. You need to try to believe and understand him more. But when you cant understand, it's always good to ask about it here, like you just did
As far as "not believing in emotionally divorced".. he could mean that he doesnt mean in adulterating the word "divorced". Some people use "emotionally divorced" as an excuse to say, "well i'm divorced, so I can go screw someone else!". Not saying you do... just trying to explain his rejection of that phrase. I could actually have used similar wording to his myself, some years back. I also detest the phrase.
You would probably get better empathy from him, if you used the phrase "emotionally shut down" or something like that.
YOU... are doing really well. believe it or not. you are continuing to have an open dialog about issues about you, and between you both... AND, you have a husband who, while scarred, is still willing to give you love and affection. he is just a bit confused as to how
I can see a wonderful future together for you both. You hang in there, and keep going along the positive path of progress you are following, and you'll get there
PS: GOOD JOB, on waiting extra long, for him to reply!!
talk to you monday...
PPS: you have no idea how long it took me to get to my current "give affirmation" habits... one of my wife's major complaints is that I dont affirm her enough. I am not this way by "base nature". it takes lots o practice and forethought. (an I do it a WHOOOLE lot better when writing in forums, than in person!!! sigh.) So there's some hope for your husband
Last edited by Dom R; 09/15/0701:22 AM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I don't know what to do to help him emotionaly connect b/c he doesn't know how to express what he needs. In the early years all he could say was "more sex".....now he doesn't know what to say at all. Do you have any suggestions what to do for a man that honestly doesn't know how to tell me what he wants? If he can't express how I have failed to fulfill his emotional needs, how can I know what to do?
I am open to suggestions.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks DomR......for all your hard work (posting) you have done this week. I actually have known about the Marriage Buiders site and it is very good (except the message board). I have encouraged several people to go there also. But you made it very easy by posting all those links.....thanks.
You have been a great help and I know you put a lot of time and thought into what you said to me each time.
Now YOU go have a good weekend and be ready to come back Monday.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I wanted to find the beginning of your stitch, but I couldn't. Can you tell me where to go or else kind of give me a quick summary of what is going on?
I feel a connection with you and would appreciate hearing from you more often. I repect the things you have said and take it to heart.
Thanks
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, The people here on SSM are the greatest. Yes, they'll sometimes (often maybe) tell you things you don't want to hear, but they'll also help you muddle through the mire IF YOU LET THEM. I think you'll find SSM more pro-marriage than pretty much anything else out there, including some so-called marriage counsellors.
