I'm somewhat confused as to why your here. Your on a SSM board seeking advice on your marriage and in the next breath your going down to the bank to meet another woman?
Not poking in the chest but if you take it that way, hey I'm game.
hi GG. glad to hear you've calmed down a bit. maybe I can clarify a bit more on what I wrote to you:
Quote:
ball park that every man on this site is only after an intimate relationship with a woman is pretty immature, I am 48 years old, not 20!
Two things - "intimate" is not just a synonym for "sexual"... and... who says that 48 year old guys dont need or want sex just like 20 year olds anyway?
To put it another way; "intimate relationship" == "someone to share your life with". That's supposed to be shared with your wife. Sharing it with other people instead, is how the majority of (non-sex-driven) people end up having physical affairs after the relationship develops.
As far as "venting" goes... you've got to be careful of the difference between venting, and psyching yourself up to do something. It's one thing to say, "my wife is acting like such a bitch!" It's an entirely different thing to say, "my wife is 'forcing' me to go and ...."
Your exact words were, "I had no intention of ever breaking my vows. I was forced into it."
That's not venting. That's self-justification for doing something that is wrong, and trying to avoid responsibility for your own choices. Be careful?
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I found it interesting that Dom R got really upset about Sandi not responding, but has not bothered to respond to several of my posts to him. Frankly though, that is his perogative, and if he doesn't want to engage in conversation with me, that's fine. I'm sure he's just busy focusing on helping Sandi (and I say that in all seriousness, that is perfectly fine).
I do get the same feeling that I'm not wanted on this thread, which is also fine.
Finechrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Yes, chrome, i'm trying to focus on helping sandi, in HER thread One side chatter is enough; i didnt want to start yet another side thread in it. I thought that I actually addressed some of what you said to me, though, in my reply to sandi afterwards. Anyways.. back to Sandi. as i said, I'm gonna write more about that, a bit later today.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I want you, I want you, I want you! Please you guys don't feel this way. We all get so emotional b/c we are going through emotional stuff in our lives. I will admit that the first time Corri posted to me that I thought I was being ....... what word shall I use?.....ah....I don't know, but it wasn't good (lol) However, when I saw that help about finding the site for the Fibromyalgia...then I knew that my best interest really was what was intended at the time the first post came through.
So, see, I misunderstood b/c my "emotions" were fragile at the time and I think that a lot of us are that way now. When I went to "piecing" forum....I got very few responses....then someone from here asked me to come to SSM....and oh boy...did that ever open a box of ..."something"!
Anyway, since this is my thread.....let me say to all of you...my "guys" and my "gals".... you are all my "sweeties"...that is what I call people I care about....nothing sexual intended......I want you to know I appreciate all of you and I am proud of my sweetie--GoodGuy-- for what he said today. I want all of us to get along on my thread. I consider you to be my friends and you ARE helping me. I doubt I have been much help to anyone....but someday I hope to be.
If the rest of my day goes slow at work and I get a minute here and there to reply to you individually....I will. If I don't get a chance....I will tonight. Just pray that I can make it through the afternoon. As I said, my pain level is getting higher today, so it is hard...but so far the work activity has been slow in the office.
Take care......my "sweeties".
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sound good Dom. Just let me know if you would like to continue our discussion. I didn't see a response to me in a response to Sandi, but I could have missed it.
Sandi,
Don't worry, I wasn't planning on "abandoning" you. If something comes up that I think I can help on, I WILL post, with the exception of being explicitly told not too by the person involved. There was just this general "feeling" of "WE are here to help Sandi, so butt out!" As you say though, feelings are not always the best yardstick to use.
Carry on, Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
The poster with a screen name KML talks a lot about thyroid conditions and has said a few things about fibromyalgia.
KML often tells people to e-mail her at elliestough@hotmail.com
Yesterday she posted I am leaving tomorrow for a long-planned trip with my sister and my mom so it might take a while for her to reply to you.
Chrom/Corri, your posts are right on.
Sandi, in some ways your situation has many things in common with my situation. I can give you my opinions and state how I feel as a H in some similar instances. I dont know if or how it might help you and your H improve your M.
For me, there is a line between me complaining and letting someone else know how it might feel like to your H so you can understand where/what he MIGHT be feeling/thinking.
Sometimes I feel I put out too much information and it turns to W basking or idle chatter, so if I dont say much, it isnt because I am ignoring you or anyone else.
WTG on the recent I took the advice....and I went in and sat right next to my H on the couch. He immediately reached over and put his arms around me and kissed me on the shoulder and said he was so sorry I was hurting.
Lou
See next post related to back pain and other pains due to stress. I wrote a summary of things that I thought might apply to me. It may or may not apply to your situation.
A summary of what I found in the book Healing Back Pain: The Mind body Connection by John E. Sarno M.D.
OXYGEN DEPRIVATION; THE PATHOPHYSIOLOGY OF TMS
We have postulated that in TMS the autonomic system selectively decreases blood flow in certain muscles, nerves, tendons and ligaments in response to the presence of repressed emotions like anxiety and anger. This state is known as ischemia, that is, the tissue involved is getting less than its normal complement of blood. This means that there will be less oxygen available to those tissues than they are accustomed to and the result will be symptoms-pain, numbness, tingling and sometimes weakness. These things happen because of the critical importance of oxygen in all physiologic processes. When it is reduced below its normal levels one can expect a reaction that will signal that fact.
What is difficult to understand is why the autonomic system should react so as to cause pain and other unpleasant symptoms when its normal function is to keep the body operating at an optimal level regardless of what's going on around it. This is clearly highly unusual but suggests that there must be some pressing need for the reaction. As we have suggested earlier, that need is to deflect the person's attention away from those very unpleasant, often painful emotions that the mind is trying to keep repressed. It is as though the mind had decided that a physical pain is preferable to an emotional one. When viewed in this light the process is not so illogical. .. One body of evidence that the physiologic alteration in TMS is oxygen deprivation is clinical. It has long been recognized that heat, introduced into muscle by diathermy or ultrasound machines, will relieve back pain temporarily. So will deep massage and active exercise of the muscles involved. All three of these physical measures are known to increase blood flow through muscle. Increased blood flow means more oxygen, and if that relieves pain it is logical to assume that oxygen deprivation was responsible for the pain. There is also laboratory evidence for this concept. In 1973 two German research workers, H. G. Fassbender and K. Wegner, reported finding microscopic changes in the nuclei of biopsied muscles from back pain patients suggesting oxygen deprivation in "Morphologic and Pathogeneses des Weichteilrheumatismus," Z. Rheumaforsch (Vol. 32, p. 355).
For additional evidence on the critical role of oxygen in TMS we are indebted to a group of research workers who have demonstrated in their laboratories in recent years that muscle oxygenation is low in patients suffering from a disorder known as primary fibromyalgia.
The Physiology of TMS 65
The term trigger points, which has been around for many years, refers to the pain elicited when pressure is applied over various muscles in the neck, shoulders, back and buttocks. There is some controversy over what precisely is painful, but most would agree that it is something in the muscle. Rheumatologists, who have taken the lead in studying fibromyalgia (TMS), appear to avoid using the term, probably because of its association with other diagnoses through the years. I neither use it nor avoid it, for I have concluded that these points of tenderness are merely the central zones of oxygen deprivation. Further, there is evidence that some of these points of tenderness may persist for life in TMS-susceptible people, like me, though there may be no pain. In the first chapter the point was made that most patients with TMS will have tenderness at six key points: the outer aspect of both buttocks, both sides of the small of the back (lumbar area) and the top of both shoulders. These tender points, trigger points, call them what you will, are the hallmark findings in TMS and they are the ones that tend to persist after the pain is gone. It is an important part of the physiology of TMS to know that the brain has chosen to implicate these muscles in creating the syndrome we know as TMS. Patients sometimes ask if breathing pure oxygen will relieve the pain. This has been tried and, unfortunately, does not help. If the brain intends to create a state of oxygen deprivation it will do so regardless of how oxygen-rich the blood is. ..
P79 Theres nothing like a little physical pain to keep your mind off your emotional problems.
P82 Review the Daily Reminders
This is an important strategy but one must be careful that it does not become a ritual. Patients are given a list of twelve key thoughts, and it is suggested that at least once a day they set aside fifteen minutes or so when they can relax and quietly review them. They are called daily reminders.
ท The pain is due to TMS, not to a structural abnormality. ท The direct reason for the pain is mild oxygen deprivation. ท TMS is a harmless condition, caused by my repressed emotions. ท The principal emotion is my repressed anger. ท TMS exists only to distract my attention from the emotions. ท Since my back is basically normal there is nothing to fear. ท Therefore, physical activity is not dangerous. ท And I must resume all normal physical activity. ท I will not be concerned or intimidated by the pain. ท I will shift my attention from the pain to emotional issues. ท I intend to be in control-not my subconscious mind. I must think psychological at all times, not physical.
P141 It is possible that the anxiety that is a part of everyone's life stems from the response of this part of our emotional systems to the stresses and strains of daily existence. The greater the stress, the more anxiety is generated. And, as stated in the psychology chapter, the same goes for anger. Anger may be one of the most important and least appreciated of the emotions we generate. The celebrated psychoanalyst and ethicist Willard Gaylin published a book in 1984 titled The Rage Within, which explored the subject of anger in modern man. Because anger is so antithetical to our idea of appropriate behavior in a civilized society we tend to repress it at the very moment it is generated in the unconscious and so remain unaware of its existence. There are many reasons, most of them unconscious, why we repress anger. They were enumerated in the psychology chapter (see page 38). The tendency to repress undesirable emotions is a supremely important element of one's emotional life.
P144 Experience with TMS and these related conditions suggests that there may be a common denominator, anxiety perhaps, that can bring on any one of these disorders. In that case, some other emotion, anger for example, may be the primary one that may in turn induce anxiety, which then brings on the symptom. Personally, I have experienced gastric hyperacidity, colitis, migraine headache, palpitations and a variety of musculoskeletal symptoms typical of TMS and know that they were all the result of repressed anger. Once having learned the trick, I could usually identify the reason for the anger-and often turns off the symptom. It is interesting to note that most of the disorders listed above are mediated through the autonomic nervous system.
The Physical Disorder as a Defense Against Repressed Emotions
This has been discussed in chapter 2 on psychology, and it will be only briefly reiterated here that the purpose of the physical symptomatology, whether it is musculoskeletal, gastrointestinal or genitourinary, is to distract attention, which is a mechanism for allowing the individual to avoid feeling or dealing with the undesirable emotions, whatever they may be. It is, in essence, a lack of desire of the mind to cope with these feelings. One must make a sharp distinction, however, between a decision made in the subconscious and one which the person would consciously make. . Mind and Body 147 The Emotions and More Serious Disorders
There are those in medicine who believe that emotions play a role in all aspects of health and illness. I am one of them. Alexander suggested doing away with the term psychosomatic medicine since it was redundant-everything medical is influenced in some way by the emotions. I believe that all medical studies are flawed if they do not consider the emotional factor. .
Before discussing other kinds of medical problems in which emotions may play a prominent role, it is important to make it clear that people do not do these things to themselves. It is not uncommon for patients to say to me after the diagnosis of TMS has been made, "I feel terrible; I did it to myself." Upon which I tell them that their emotional patterns were well established long before they reached the age of responsibility and that what they are now is a result of a combination of genetic and developmental-environmental factors over which they had no control. Might as well take responsibility for how tall you are or the color of your eyes. Therefore, they are reacting to life in the only way they know how. Further, if one begins to understand why one reacts the way one does and wants to change, some degree of progress is possible. . P151 Because of their tendency to be compulsive, perfectionisti,c and very responsible and conscientious, people with TMS often describe themselves as Type A. They are, in fact, different in some important respects. Many TMS patients are the antithesis of hostile; they often have a strong need to be good, nice, pleasant, accommodating and helpful. Though they may be ambitious and often very accomplished, they do not necessarily pursue their goals with the intensity that seems to be characteristic of the Type A person.
ok, now I'll write the other half of my post This is relating to you "emotionally connecting" with your husband, with the idea that you want to experience deep sharing between you both.
You probably already know everything that I'm going to mention, but I think it's worth explicitly writing it down. Your husband is going to have GREAT difficulty doing this, because
He's never really done it before, so doesnt know how
He's a GUY!
He's old, so he may be cranky about changing himself
He may not want to "feel vulnerable", depending on what you talk about.
But... that doesnt mean he's incapable of sharing.
At some point in the future, you may be able to approach him and start the road to intimate sharing. [I would suggest, not before you have done a few weeks of the physical closeness on a very regular basis!] It's going to have to be a very gentle, slow road. Guys can get really tired out from doing this stuff, if it's not something that feels natural to them. They can even feel attacked, or hurt, and certainly vulnerable.
I'm going to use a somewhat ugly metaphor. please forgive me. Think about how rough it felt to you, when you first were having sex with him. It was painful for you. But he couldnt understand that. To him, sex was natural, feels good, and you should be all enthusiastic about it. To YOU... you needed it to be slow, and gentle, and not overwhelm you when you werent ready for it. I think that it's important to approach him for "intimate sharing", with almost the same kind of very slow, gentle patience that you wish he had used with sex way back when. He didnt understand you then. Hopefully, you will understand him better, now, with this.
------------------
PHEW! quite a leadup. Which is why I wanted to make this a separate post.
So... with that in mind... how to approach? I think it's important not to start with an "I need sharing, dammit!" kind of attitude not saying you have that, just warning against it. The thing is to make it a comfortable, pleasant experience that he feels good about, and wants to repeat.
Plus: you may be wanting a "conversational partner". He's not very conversational. That's a WHOOOLE 'nuther issue to get over I think that you need to be aware of this, and understand that you will have the burden of "driving the conversation", so to speak.
That being said... some authors claim that guys LIKE talking about themselves. I think that this is true... IF the guy believes that the person they are talking to, is really interested in them. and/or the topic they want to talk about. In other words, from a typical guy perspective, I think the feelings are:
talk "just to make conversation"? waste of time
talk about fishing, to someone who doesnt like fishing? waste of time
talk about fishing, to someone who likes sports, or wants to cook fresh fish/other genuine interest? Useful! Productive! Good!
I think the good tactic, is to first figure out the stuff that interests him (and ideally, has SOME interest to you)... then encourage him to talk about it. THEN maybe toss out a few "what does that mean to you?" "how do you feel about it" kinda things. (gotta be really sparing on those, though. one or two per conversation only!)
Men usually like to DO things. When they're not doing things themselves, most men like to talk about doing things, or watch other people doing things. That's why men watch sports, whereas women watch soaps. Vicarious DOings, vs vicarious FEELings If you get used to talking to him about things he enjoys talking about, and that he has a personal interest in doing.. then I'm guessing he will feel that much more connected to you, in talking about "personal" things in general. If you are patient about it, you will have built a link with him there.
Men tend to "feel" things, in terms of ambitions. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in helping you more deeply, because I dont know how a 60 year old man views ambitions. But I bet there are still things he'd like to do or achieve. Some kind of ambitions that are still "future" things that he looks forward to. If he's given up on doing things.... that's a problem. Maybe you can encourage him (gently!!) to look forward to doing things, that other men his age enjoy.
WHoops. but I veered off course. The focus should not be on how to "fix" your husband! The focus should be on, how to encourage, and listen to, and admire, your husband. In other words, what YOU can do, to make your relationship better for BOTH of you!
It is also said that men thrive on "respect". If you seek out areas and things that you can admire and/or respect your husband in, and show him that you do...that might bump-start a whole new positive dynamo for your relationship, alongside the physical closeness one that may be starting up. Not to mention, that it doesnt hurt to remind yourself of positive qualities in your husband
All this is mostly just something for you to file away to maybe look at in october. Certainly, there's nothing stopping you from admiring and respecting your husband right away But I'm guessing that you have plenty to occupy you right now, just getting reaccquainted with your husband's arms. Maybe, instead of trying to pressure yourself to rush to the final destination... you should take your time, and enjoy the journey
oh well.. hope this was helpful to you. enough blathering from me now
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
My idea of doing that for an evening would be to come home from work and spend "quality" time together snuggled up with each other and talking about how we "feel" about things.
This is good. This is restoring the emotional connection to YOU. This is your HUSBANDS responsibility. This is where HE should be focusing HIS efforts. TELL HIM that this is where he should focus HIS efforts.
But he is still left out. HE needs emotional connection to you. How are YOU going to give HIM the emotional connection that HE wants.
One side chatter is enough; i didnt want to start yet another side thread in it.
I think that you need to be aware of this, and understand that you will have the burden of "driving the conversation", so to speak. 