I was almost a WAW

[sandi2]

Dear AmyC,

Thank you sweetie, I am not a better woman than you!
And, when I read your response to my "efforts" in my M over the years......well, it helped my feelings to know that you understand. I was beginning to feel that ........oh well, it doesn't matter what I was beginning to feel.....

Thanks for supporting me. I felt like I needed to come to the SSM forum and the guys here have been nice to me and tried to help. They are trying to help me see from my H's POV and at the same time ask for my POV. I haven't heard from too many of the women. But you have been here for me from the first when I came on board and so I consider you to be a friend.....an important one too. I was feeling really "down" last night and then this morning I had to get up early b/c I was in so much pain from the fibromyalgia I couldn't sleep.....then I found your post. I could cry just to know you understand what I have tried to do down through the years. After all these years of being "blamed" and my "good" husband thinks he has done all he knows to do.....well, it just helps me for somebody to understand me. He is not a mean spirited man, but in a way....he has kind of "beaten" me down b/c it was always my fault.

You said you didn't know how to help me.....but you have sweetie. You gave me what I needed to hear this morning.

Love ya,
Sandi

[Corri]

Hey... is kml around anymore? Does anyone remember the post she made about fibromyalgia to... ooohhhh.... somethingJames... his wife had it, and kml gave him a reference for it... they checked it out... found amazing success... for THEM... it isn't for everyone...

Sandi, have you ever talked to a poster called kml about your fibromyalgia? She's a doctor IRL... if not... let me know, and I will go digging through the posts to see if I can find the info...

...could be something worth exploring for you. Sorry to digress...

Corri

[OG_Lou]

Sandi
Like BB, my H feels that I had to have everything around me "perfect" in order to have sex. I didn't see it that way at all......so there you go....two sides to the story.
So, what would you advise your H to do if life had a reset/do over button? I am asking for my benefit too.
So far, I have been complying with, setting up/putting in place the list items, and ignoring some of BB’s list items.

Sandi, I may be listing some things from a man’s POV, but I am also trying to help you and supporting you. My timing might be off. It wouldn’t be the first time.

I posted this before. Here is KML latest post.
Kml latest post http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1186777

Lou

[sandi2]

Hi Corri,

No I have not talked to that doctor, but I am willing to listen to anyone or to try just about anything that is suggested to me. My H even said, at one point, that that was one reason he kind of gave up this past eleven years...b/c I always felt so blasted bad all the time. A lot of truth is in that statement he made. Especially in the evenings after we both get home and I have worked all day...I have had it! I know I'm not much fun to be around any more.

Anyway, if you find something, I'd appreciate the information.

[Corri]

Sandi:

Found it. I will quote what I found here. This, from the man to whom she gave the info (JamesMD):

Much advice has been given to me, and I have been “listening” to it. I have purchased a number of books and researched many websites on the Internet. One person in particular on this Board...called “kml” gave me the most key bit of information. She recommended that I visit a website http://www.drlowe.com which gave information regarding hypothyroidism. My wife has had that since she was a teenager. She has always taken a T4 med (synthroid) commonly prescribed by doctors. This website gave her info regarding meds which targeted the T3 number of thyroid tests. Despite our doctor not knowing much about it and despite his lack of confidence in this med helping, my wife has been taking it for a week. The results thus far are rather dramatic. By far the majority of her pains and fatigue associated with her fibromyalgia diagnosis have disappeared. Her mood fluctuations are now much, much more stable and pleasant. I have been holding my breath, afraid that it will not stay, but one week has gone by, and we are still looking good. By the way, she said my hopes are up to high. She will remain skeptical for at least a couple of months.

From kml:

Okay, I see from your old thread that her doctor put her on Thyrolar - a mixture of T4 and T3. Actually a little more convenient than taking Synthroid and Cytomel, but doesn't give you the same flexibility in dosing, since the ratio of T4 to T3 is fixed.

Two things for her to consider:

1) Since T3 is fast-acting, most people who take it do better if they split their dose into twice a day (to keep the T3 levels up). So, if she's taking it once a day, she may feel better splitting the dose in half and taking it twice a day.

2)Cytomel is a perfectly mainstream medication, pure T3. If she needs a different ratio of T4 to T3 in the future, she shouldn't be afraid to educate her FP on this. There is actually a lot of medical literature on its use.

Sounds like she is lucky to have a doctor who is willing to listen to her. Many thyroid patients have a terrible time getting what they need because their doctors are uneducated or stuck in the endocrinologists' dogma.

One warning for your wife - there is a tendency for doctors to want to decrease the dose if the TSH falls too low, regardless of how the patient is doing. She should resist this if she is feeling well on the current dose - TSH is NOT the be-all and end-all that most doctors think it is.

Well, I never had fibromyalgia (although for 2 days I got a taste of it - yuck!) but I'll tell you this about thyroid replacement:
- first of all, once your body starts getting what it needs, there's still a lot of repair that has to go on. I had RAI for hyperthyroidism, became profoundly hypothyroid, and took 5 months to get my thyroid levels up to what I needed. Once I got to the right dose, I would say it still took a couple of months to kick in completely. Think about it - we know there are muscle changes (shown on muscle biopsy) in thyroid patients, and a multitude of other changes take place in the body. Those don't disappear overnight just because your metabolism recovers - the body has to repair all that damage, and that takes time. I don't know what Dr. Lowe sees, but I would expect that even on optimal therapy, it might take a couple of months or more to go away completely.

- second - I notice a lot of thyroid patients on the thyroid boards will get an initial good response when put on a T3-containing preparation, then start to relapse - usually, they seem to get better again when they increase their dosage further. If she truly seems to be going backwards, rather than just sputtering forward, I would definitely invest in a phone consult with Dr. Lowe. I believe this initial good response shows that she CAN improve with T3 therapy, and it will probably just be a matter of adjusting her doses properly and maybe doing some of the supportive things Dr. Lowe recommends as far as nutrition etc. Some people with fibromyalgia end up needing quite a bit of T3 on his protocol. And things like low iron stores can interfere with proper utilization of thyroid hormone. Be patient, encourage her to follow through. Have you bought Dr. Lowe's book for patients? That would be a good place to start. (I have his textbook, I enjoyed reading it but it is HUGE and really technical, so I recommend you get the other book.)

I would highly recommend you email her, or go look up the posts from JamesMD... and look for her posts to him on this subject. If you email her, tell her you are from the SSM Boards, and the crew recommended you drop her a line so she could tell you a bit about Dr. Lowe. Her email address is: [e-mail]

She made that public, so I don't feel bad re-posting it here. I hope this might help you and offer you some hope.

Corri

[sandi2]

Hi, I tried to go to that website but it said "Not Found". If you find some other address or way to let me know how to get there, I'd appreciate it.

I am sure my H could idenify with you and your frustration with your BB. You sound so much like him in the ways he does things for me....as I've said, that is my H's love language....but not mine. The funny thing is....I always knew when he was trying to ....what was the words you use?.....do the deed? lol
I bet BB can too. Our biggest problems have been "timing"! I am serious!! My timing to talk to him would be the wrong time.....when he wanted to have sex, it would be the wrong time, etc. I could count on it.....for an example.....the very day I would work myself to death cleaning house extra hard...that would be the night he would want to have sex. He would be so turned on that I accused him of getting that way just watching me work my ass off. But, when he was too tired.....then that would be the time I wanted to have fun...etc. Our timing still stinks!

I never believed in sex being given as a reward or refused as a punishment. I used to resent the things my H would do when I knew he was just trying to "get some" (as he called it). When I read about the different love languages....then I realized that was his way of showing me he loved me. But, it doesn't have the results that he hopes to get b/c my love language is needing to hear the "talk"....the words....and he is not going to give them b/c he doesn't talk! If he had given me those intimate moments of conversation I needed so badly when we were first married (especially living in the house with my MIL)....things would have been so different.

I have not mentioned this before. As I have told some, I got pregnant the first month we were married....which was certainly not planned, but anyway, sexual intercourse was so very painful for me....even before I was very far along in the pregnancy. Of course, now, people would tell me to get to the doctor....but back then I did not discuss things so personal like that except maybe with my SIL (who was older and she should have told me to see my doctor...but didn't). Having sex felt like a butcher knife raming into me.....that is very blunt (sorry) but it is the words I used to try to make him understand how much it hurt me to have intercourse. However, it did not slow him down. He wanted it every night. So, I gritted my teeth and tried to bear it while he was "satisfied". I would say a lot of resentment begin to build up there....wouldn't you? Then later in years, he admitted that he thought I was just trying to get out of having sex and that he did not really believe it was actually that painful for me! Why would he think that? We were newly weds. I had never,ever lied to the man before! That hurt me worse than him having the painful intercourse with me. It hurt my heart much more than having the sex.

I have to stop for a bit....hope to get a minute to get back to you shortly.

[Dom R]

sorry about the timing issues.
most stuff I read, says that this is exactly why (happily married, otherwise communicating) couples need to SCHEDULE sex, particularly if they have children.
Becuase otherwise, more often than not, something will mess things up.
"but doesnt that kill spontaneity?"
A woman wrote somewhere, that that's why she scheduled multiple times a week for it. If nothing happened on some of those nights that neither of you could control.. . that's ok. becuase the next one will be right along shortly.
Just as long as you dont let ALL of them get interrupted

different subject one coming soon. wanted to get that out of the way first.

[Dom R]

Ok, now the tougher one.

quickie thing out the way first:

Dont tell him that you "want to draw closer". Dont tell him that you're working on sex. I think you should just do the work, and see how he responds. That's the DR method, I think. it doesnt require that you tell your spouse "you're working on things". In some cases, it's even counter-productive to do so.
Just work on improving things between you, by your own actions, and see what happens. If he approaches you and says he wants to work with you because he sees good changes in you.. great. otherwise, ... you dont "have" to tell him.


----------------------------------------

Sandi, you've described me as a good friend, so I hope you will take this friend's advice to heart.
I'm going to ask you to do something at the end of this post.
I'd like you to promise me that you will Just Do It, today, and write that you will, as soon as you've finished reading this.

I'm not a professional counsellor... but I think that I manage to understand some peoples' emotions pretty durn well. I think that I have a good feeling for what's going on inside you in a particular area.

I understand what resentment can do. I know what a poison it can be. I've been both on the giving, and the recieving end of it.

You have had a lot of difficult things to deal with over the course of your marriage. the initial inconsideration with sex (which was due to a misunderstanding, dont forget). The lack of intimate communication about it, and your feelings.
The drawing away. the lack of sex for over a decade. The unmet need for closeness.

Sandi.. I think that you had an EA, because basically, you have drifted over into WAW mode.
You havent left yet. But you are not "almost" a walk away wife. You are one. You just haven't left let.

There is something in your heart that says, "I will not ALLOW myself to be closer to my husband. I refuse to forgive, and heal, and mend things between us."

You are putting in efforts to make your husband feel nice. and that's really good!
Yet, that's also exactly what the WAW does. She burns herself out with one-way effort, to justify to herself, "Look! I tried!!! but I still feel empty!"

The thing is, though... they feel empty about the marriage, because they dont nurture positive things from their husband to them. Which means that they will never FEEL positive things for their husbands again, because "he never does anything for me. he doesnt 'meet my needs'".



The good news is, you are being fairly honest about your surface level feelings, at least. When I asked you outright if you wanted to be held by your husband, you wrote:

Do I "want" him to hold me? I don't know. I honestly don't know.

But you wrote, now many days ago, that you very much want, and need, to be held "by someone", I think.

So: you want to be held "by someone".
But, you are blocking that "someone" from being your husband.
Your WAW side is clouding your mind and heart by saying to yourself, "but I dont 'want' it, i dont 'feel'....". But those are just excuses to justify sabotaging your relationship with your marriage, and not allowing it to get better.

If you wait until you 'want' physical closeness with your husband... it will never come.
You wont 'want it', until you experience simple closeness at just a physical level again, and allow yourself to accept it as a gift of love for your husband.
If you refuse to do either of those things... then it will never get better.

Forget about sex right now.
Just give your husband the opportunity to show caring and love for you, and then accept it from him.
Your WAW side may bubble up in you right now with, "but i GAVE him opportunities, and he didnt ...".
If you truely want to enjoy the marriage that you were meant to have... make her go stand in the corner and shut up



Sandi, please promise me that you will ask him today/tonight, to just hold you.
Pick a GOOD time for this.. dont sabotage yourself by picking a time that is so late, you reasonably know things will fall apart by then.
Pick a good PLACE for this. Some place that you know you will feel warm, and comfortable, and peaceful. Where you can just close your eyes, and relax, and think/feel what it is like to have your husband show that he cares about you, by having his arms around you for 15 minutes then.

Promise?

[Corri]

Sandi:

In case you missed it, I posted to you about kml and gave a web site for you to check out.

Corri

[sandi2]

Ok, I'm back. So, what would I tell my husband if I had a reset button? Probably the same thing I tried to tell him the first time around. The problem, Lou, is that he did not LISTEN! As I just told in the example about having the painful sex. Another thing happen after our second child was born. Well, it started while I was pregnant, but perhaps the childbirth made things worse, anyway....I developed a bad back. I went for years and years and am still going with a painful back problem due to some nerve damage in the lower part of my back. My H even admitted that he thought I used that at times to get out of having sex. Again, I had never lied to this man my entire life (up until I met the OM on line and had the EA....I never had lied to my H and didn't lie then when he confronted me about the OM.) My point is why would he think I was lying to him about having back pain to get out of sex? So, again......resentment built up.

Sweetie, I don't know where I would even begin to reset the button....probably by not moving into my MIL's house! But, that doesn't help you....(lol).

In the early years, I did not feel as though my H tried at all to contribute to the emotional part of our R. I felt as though all he ever thought about or cared about was sex. That was certainly all he wanted to talk about b/c he never wanted to carry on a conversation about anything else that related to "us".

I've already told how he was in the relationship. So, I would just say that if he had tried to "contribute" something on an intimate level.....that wasn't having sex......I think it would have helped me. To talk to me about what we wanted out of life.....to discuss our dreams and set goals to achieve...but that wasn't him! I wanted to hear his thoughts about everything.....but I heard nothing....absolutely nothing. I make him sound boring, don't I? Well, the honest truth is....he was boring. I did not see him like that before I married him and it did not make me stop loving him after we were married, but it was disappointing. He could be funny at times b/c he has a dry sense of humor....so he could say things that would get me tickled....but he didn't clown around & play or anything like that.

I was disappointed in him as a daddy to the kids. Now, before anyone jumps to conclusions....I don't mean anything bad here. He was a good Christian man and good to the kids, etc. as I have already explained in past messages. He just didn't do anything special with them. For example, he wouldn't take our son fishing or throw a ball with him, etc. You know....men things. My son has said enough over the years that I know it kind of hurt him that his dad did not do those things with him. But family members know that is just how my H is and they might as well accept it b/c he won't change.

I don't think it would really do any good for me to look back over the past and say what I wish I could re-do, b/c it can't be done. However, if I could say something to help you....I would.

I can't remember if it was you or one of the other guys that asked me what would attract me to him now or what he could do now that would turn me on. For one thing......to see him lying on the couch in his underwear is not that attractive to me. That has become his usual state of these days. When he sits down in the recliner or even on the couch, his head fall forward or backwards about two seconds later.....and he is sound asleep.....usually snoring. Not the most attractive sight. He keeps clean and likes to wear good smelling cologne. All the men in his family have always done that. So, no complaints there. The main thing I think I wished he would do .......is to stop acting like he is my husband! Maybe he would try to act sexy then. If he pretended to be my lover instead of my husband......maybe he would at least "act" sexy.....you know as in "try". Married people become too lazy and take each other for "granted"....and it shows! Lovers would not do that...at least I don't think they would. They would look good (often even look their best)for each other and try to show some "life" about themselves. I think they might even try to "entertain" each other at times and have a little fun.

Yep......I think that would be sexy to me! That would be the button I would want to have to push and see if any fireworks were set off.

Now....about you "BB". Is she as really as selfish as she ounds? Lordy! I don't want to make you mad at me sweetie, but it sounds like she has you jumping through hoops trying to make her happy in hopes that you may get a little bit of sex.....if everything else is just perfect......(BTW, this is what my H would say is exactly the way it is around his house too). It would be very interesting to hear my H's and your W's stories.

I want us to talk more about this......all this stuff you are trying to do to please her and how she is treating you. Are you sure you are not going down those "cheese-less tunnels"?

Have to go for a little bit...get back with you.