I'm cautiously optimistic about Mrs. HD's "I want us to be together" statement, but I also put it in the category of the "I'll try to be a better wife" statement that didn't really go anywhere.
He needs to stay the course...this time it needs to be different to see any long-term or lasting results. Need not fold or give in on this. Stick with the sexual moritorium at all costs. He threw it out there...and he needs to stick with it.
but the only person who can heal my child within is me. I can gain awareness through interactions with others but I'm the one who needs to "grow-up" bunny if I'm ever going to get the intimacy that I want rather than the compassion I might feel I need.
For you specifically, may this makes sense, but as a general statement I would say yes and no. IMO some people can work through growing up their "bunny." For others, no. I am thinking specifically about trauma survivors. Remember that book I once mentioned about "Emotionally Focused Couple Therapy with Trauma Survivors," Susan Johnson says the success rate for rehabilitating post traumatic stress survivors in one-on-one settings is not too good. But when undergoing therapy with a partner, the success rate improves dramatically.
The book gives lots of reasons why, but taking the research into a marriage, the same concept applies. So maybe growing up your bunny with the help of a close partner could create a strong bond for you.
As for HD, I suspect his W will never be able to get to the point of being a truly strong woman. I think there is just too much in her past. But that may not matter if she can learn to trust HD to support her. That does not mean one person is rescuing the other, though it could.
A workable marriage does not HAVE to be completely healthy and functional, it just needs to be workable. This is the general idea I am pursuing in my M.
A workable marriage does not HAVE to be completely healthy and functional, it just needs to be workable. This is the general idea I am pursuing in my M.
Okay, I get what you're saying but it's kind of depressing, right? I hope/plan to have passion and intimacy in my next LTR. I even see your point about how having a strong partner might help but I think the help is more found in mirroring or bouncing off the strength rather than being soothed or rescued. Even my short-term relationship with NG was helpful/healing to me in that way but it wouldn't have been if I hadn't been participating in this BB and trying to be self-aware about my behavior within a relationship or if he had tried to rescue me. Let me tell you, the internet is teeming with men who would be happy to rescue my bunny. One guy who wants to date me has a profile that says "Just give me one chance and I will never let you down." but ,luckily for me, I know better than to try to build a relationship on that kind of attraction. Therefore, what I would suggest is that instead of HD offering an "I'm sorry I frightened you." vibe, he should simply reflect back "When I put my hand on your breast, you felt frightened."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Therefore, what I would suggest is that instead of HD offering an "I'm sorry I frightened you." vibe, he should simply reflect back "When I put my hand on your breast, you felt frightened."
Mojo, well said!
FWIW I think this is a great point for HD. Yes MsHdog was frightened (or disrespected, etc.). In the future letting her know he recognizes her feelings is okay. However recognizing her feelings does not mean he has to take responsibility for those feelings.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Therefore, what I would suggest is that instead of HD offering an "I'm sorry I frightened you." vibe, he should simply reflect back "When I put my hand on your breast, you felt frightened."
I don't get it. What, if anything, is this supposed to accomplish? When it seems pretty clear to me that what Ms.Hdog wants is me to apologize for what I did, how is "mirroring" going to do anything more than, probably, piss her off?
Plus, let's remember that my deepest "transgression" was not respecting her stated wish not to be touched in a sexual way while sleeping. The action may have offended her, but I actually don't feel more than just a little shameful about that. It's that she said "x is important to me. Don't do x. Okay?" and I said, "yes." Then, I did x. Disrespect. Whether or not you agree that it was wrong to touch her breast, can't we agree that it was wrong of me to disregard her stated wish? A stronger man would have said to her, "I understand that you don't want to be touched while asleep. The problem is that since you also don't want to be touched while you're awake, that means I don't get to touch you at all. That doesn't work for me. Let's see if we can work something out." I'm not there yet.
Maybe I'm missing the whole "apologizing equals taking responsibility for her feelings" thing. Apologizing, to me, means that I'm taking responsibility for something I did.
I would just flat out ask her if she thinks it is important for married couples to touch each other...when you are awake...LOL. Ask her what intimacy and sex means to her...I would want her to verbalize this now.
Hairdog, I feel that you tweaked your W after the vacation as a way of coneecting after a disappointing vacation. What was going on between you and W to make her so unempathic when you were sick? I am sure you have hurt feelings about the lack of caring, and I think in the interests of increased intimacy you should express to her what it felt like. That's how closeness and healing take place.
"I understand that you don't want to be touched while asleep. The problem is that since you also don't want to be touched while you're awake, that means I don't get to touch you at all. That doesn't work for me. Let's see if we can work something out."
I like it.
Ms hairdog wants you to stand up for yourself. Don't ever forget that. She may hiss and scratch but avoiding and giving in drives her crazy. Sure she heavily contributed to the fact that you started avoiding but that's not the point. I think you're doing great, btw. Cudos for the weekend "talk".
What was going on between you and W to make her so unempathic when you were sick?
I'm not sure. I was, certainly, getting a little grumpy/short-tempered, due to some severe cramping, but I don't think it warranted the treatment I got from her. She may have a whole different story. We really had a great time in Colorado...got along fine, I was decisive and independent, she seemed to approve of that (not that I was doing it for her approval, btw). Maybe it was just one of those long car trip things. We had already been on the road about 7 hours by then, with 6+ left to go.
Again, though, why "mirror" when she want/expects an apology?
