I hate to say "I told you so" but...I said that if HD behaved in a manner that was "deliberate" but not "brutal" the relationship would improve and stabilize but in a non-sexual manner. The bunny now feels safe with Daddy. Daddy validated bunny's fear that most men are rapists but he reassured her that he didn't mean to scare her into thinking that he might be one by touching her breast. It's even possible that bunny will approach Daddy to cuddle and make love. However, Daddy better be very careful not to even think the word "f*ck" while the cuddle-love is going on. In case anybody wants to tell me again that I'm off my rocker in what I'm suggesting, here is the level of "brutality" that I think HD might consider employing. He might just say to MsHD "I like to f*ck. A lot." Also, I'm not trying to give the impression that there is anything wrong with making love or cuddling or any sweet honest expression of emotional connection. I've got a bunny too. I just want everybody on this BB to have every kind of intimacy possible in their relationships.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I wonder HD...anywhere in that conversation did sex come up? I think the time to bring it up is when she has let her guard down...perhaps not a huge conversation right now, but would like to know her thoughts about it and does she realize how important it is to you and to the wholeness of your marriage. She says she wants to be with you forever, but does she think you will be able to continue on the path you are on...non-sexually? What did she say about the sex moratorium?
Fantastic!!! See, under all that bluff and bluster she is really just a scared and hurt kid.
I want you to think very carefully about this question, Cobra. Why do you think it is "fantastic" that HD is married to a "scared and hurt kid"? By your own reference, why are you happy that your wife is a "scared and hurt kid" too? Hint: think potential ego-gratification.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Re: the sex moratorium... I told her that one of the goals behind the moratorium was that, because I would be the one in control of us NOT having sex, rather than me always seeing her as being in control, it would take the resentment level way down. (Among other reasons supporting the moratorium, which I've noted before). In the context of the NG theory, getting rid of the behavior of trying to please her just to keep the possibility of her "availability" would, hopefully, help the relationship and would certainly help me. She agreed. She said that often she could see that the true motivation behind my actions was all about sex, and that it ended up turning her 'off', and definitely did not make her feel loved. I told her that I was sorry she felt that way by the situation, but reiterated that talking and long walks made me feel somewhat closer and more intimate and connected with her, but that sex with my wife was that special thing for me that meant we shared a connection.
There's a lot more to discuss, no doubt, but at least it was a start.
I want you to think very carefully about this question, Cobra. Why do you think it is "fantastic" that HD is married to a "scared and hurt kid"? By your own reference, why are you happy that your wife is a "scared and hurt kid" too? Hint: think potential ego-gratification.
Have you constructed your own box to put me in? Why don't you just take my statement at face value that I am glad HD made a break through and that the key to understanding his W is to not see her as a cold hard enemy but a vulnerable child who wants and needs compassion?
Does my statement get too close to the truth for your comfort?
Can someone plleeeease help me? I don't even know if I'm in the right forum or how to post right. I'm in a totally backwards situation. I just found out about DB and it makes sense. My situation is unique because the W (newly weds for 8 months) says she has never felt love except for once in our very short engagement, but we are catholic and she is committed to marriage so no divorce. But living like this is HELL. She has severe depression and past sexaul issues, and she hates herself, how she looks, and says she doesn't feel love period. WHere do I even begin to go from there? I am probably the most sensitive, affectionate, old-fashioned, lovers, but nothing seems to work. How can someone tell you they feel nothing for you and just turn their back on you in bed? I profess my love, do everything, and basically baby her. I think codependence on my part. Am I driving her away with too much smothering? I'm just dizzy at this point. Every time I think it's going good, I'll spend a day in hell trying to make her happy like a child, granting her anything she wants. Then she'll get all mopey dopey at the end of what any other woman would view as the perfect day of being catered too, and says she's not good enough for me, and I should be with another woman, to which I reply, "Of course not, you are my equal, I love you and God picked us for each other and I'll never leave you."
I don't understand how to implement DB methods in this instance. She says she doesn't love me and I am doing all the things an ideal husband should be doing, so am I supposed to stop doing all the loving things and ignore her to make her somehow love me. It would seem counterproductive.
She's not threatening to walk out, and reassures me, but she always mentions she wants the happy cloud feeling she had with A-holes from the past, even though she knows they were horrible to her. To me it's like the classic case of self-hatred, self-loathing (there are eating disorders, too); like she's locking off being able to love and feel love.
Can someone plleeeease help me? I don't even know if I'm in the right forum or how to post right. I'm in a totally backwards situation. I just found out about DB and it makes sense. My situation is unique because the W (newly weds for 8 months) says she has never felt love except for once in our very short engagement, but we are catholic and she is committed to marriage so no divorce. But living like this is HELL. She has severe depression and past sexaul issues, and she hates herself, how she looks, and says she doesn't feel love period. WHere do I even begin to go from there? I am probably the most sensitive, affectionate, old-fashioned, lovers, but nothing seems to work. How can someone tell you they feel nothing for you and just turn their back on you in bed? I profess my love, do everything, and basically baby her. I think codependence on my part. Am I driving her away with too much smothering? I'm just dizzy at this point. Every time I think it's going good, I'll spend a day in hell trying to make her happy like a child, granting her anything she wants. Then she'll get all mopey dopey at the end of what any other woman would view as the perfect day of being catered too, and says she's not good enough for me, and I should be with another woman, to which I reply, "Of course not, you are my equal, I love you and God picked us for each other and I'll never leave you."
I don't understand how to implement DB methods in this instance. She says she doesn't love me and I am doing all the things an ideal husband should be doing, so am I supposed to stop doing all the loving things and ignore her to make her somehow love me. It would seem counterproductive.
She's not threatening to walk out, and reassures me, but she always mentions she wants the happy cloud feeling she had with A-holes from the past, even though she knows they were horrible to her. To me it's like the classic case of self-hatred, self-loathing (there are eating disorders, too); like she's locking off being able to love and feel love.
Oh. Forgot to mention the fact that I have been a jerk about sex in the past. It was a little disconcerting to discover that all the talk about crazy sex after marriage was a fizzle. Basically, it fizzled even on the honeymoon night. I went through my bad stage of basically being like, look, I need this and it's not healthy that you don't want it, and I want to pleasure you the best way, etc. I mean, I can still do like 4 hours of foreplay, without sex even wanted and she'll turn around or just pop out of bed. It got better since I learned to not ask, beg, etc, but it's kind of a disgusting feeling to think you are making progress after great sex and cuddling and sharing and then still be told on various occasions, "I'm really praying that God allows me to feel love for you." So basically, all the love-making was one-sided. I don't think she doesn't feel love. I think she denies herself to feel and acknowlege it and happy moments and memories.
My wife definitely needs therapy to deal with issues, and I tell her I will help and we could get counseling, but I'm smart enough to know I can't continue to sign her up for everyhting, make appointments she never keeps or follows up on. I want to support her but she has to want help as much as I do. Am I wrong for thinking that, or should I be making her appointments and guiding her through?
I'm just drained. It seems like I have become a live-in spiritual guru, trainer, motivator, therapist, and court jester, plastic model husband. Everything except for a lover. I make hot lunches for her breaks at work and bring them, and she says she loves me coming and looks forward to that as the highlight of her day (she works evening shift). Do I need to ease back on these everyday expected visits and nice-ities, making dinner, massages, etc? Note, she is an awesome wife as far as cleaning and doing bills and laundry; she's OCD. I don't have a problem or think there's a problem and life is great until she starts cutting herself down, telling me she shouldn't be with me, I deserve better, saying how fat she is (she's a stick), how she is worthless, can't give me the love I deserve, etc. I mean, at a certain point, I start feeling guilty because I'm thinking, 'Darn. Maybe you're right!" SHe's her own worst fan.
Have you constructed your own box to put me in? Why don't you just take my statement at face value that I am glad HD made a break through and that the key to understanding his W is to not see her as a cold hard enemy but a vulnerable child who wants and needs compassion?
Does my statement get too close to the truth for your comfort?
My point is that, in the long run but ASAP, HD needs to see his wife as a strong yet vulnerable woman (not a weak and needy child) who wants intimacy of all kinds. I am well aware of the fact that I have been in semi-denial of my bunny (but never my monkey - lol ) but the only person who can heal my child within is me. I can gain awareness through interactions with others but I'm the one who needs to "grow-up" bunny if I'm ever going to get the intimacy that I want rather than the compassion I might feel I need. You know quite well that any kind of "rescuing" is a manifestation of the "need to be needed" and therefore counter-productive unless you yourself crave compassion and security more than intimacy and passion.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
