Howdy... great resource. I'm waiting on the Divorce Remedy book to arrive any day now. Move out day for the Wife and 2 kids (daughters, 5 & 3) is the 27th.
Here is my story so far:
Wife and I have had issues with our marriage... I understand now that I wasn't affectionate enough, but there were issues on both sides. Plain and simple, we just weren't happy together. We've seen counseling twice and neither of us really committed to doing anything.
2 weeks ago she went out with a GF from work and got too drunk to drive which is not her. They are teachers at a daycare, and one of the fathers showed up. He ended up giving her a ride home. Oddly enough, this guy is going through a divorce and my wife knows him and his kids relatively well.
A week ago, she goes out with GF again. At 0300, I get nervous and call her. No answer.. I call GF and she states that they are over at OM's house and he is showing her around. W says he is just a friend and it's no big deal.
The following evening, W goes out with GF again. This is key because she said she wasn't going to see OM and I caught her in a lie. She still says he is just a friend, but she is being very secretive about her phone.
Monday she says she wants to get separated.. and she isn't backing down. We've had ups and downs, but she went out last weekend and stayed out till 0400. I was supposed to be somewhere the following morning at 0730, so I called her at 0200. She was at OM's house with GF and GF's boyfriend. Again, she claims he's just a friend.
I've helped her get an apartment, went shopping with her yesterday for new bathroom stuff.. we've hashed out what stuff will be going over to her apt from the house. We've talked about kids etc.
I finally asked her what our status was.. does she want to date? Can we talk? She basically told me she was emotionally fried and doesn't want a relationship right now. She is willing to work on us, but she wants to take it VERY SLOWLY.
I don't have the book, but I'm struggling with what to do and how to react. I'll post a follow on with what's going on currently.. any help would be appreciated.
Since we are living together still, it's very hard to know what to say or what to do. We are still hashing out the separation details and that does provide conflict. I'm not going to roll over, but I don't want to make things worse. It's fairly friendly at this point, but I want to keep it on the right track.
I'm supposed to file for separation today or tomorrow... we agreed I would do it because she can't afford to. She will be meeting with an atty today for a second opinion, but probably much won't change.
How do I communicate with her? There is tension... but there are times when she seems happy and interested. Then there are times when I have to reach out to her.
I've started leaving notes for her... she likes that. Although she didn't mention anything about the one this morning.
This will be odd as she works at the Daycare our kids attend. I will see her very often.. we've even agreed that I will watch the girls when she has school on one of her days. It's very friendly, I just want to do the right things to win her back.
She still talks (and probably sees) OM. I've stopped snooping (mostly) and have backed off of her on it. She likes OM because he listens to her and genuinely seems interested. He is also going through a divorce, so she feels sorry for him and they have something in common. I think he's using her because he's 41 and she's 26.
Ironically, a woman from my past shows up about this time. She found my email addr and pinged me to see how I was doing. She's recently divorced and has a 1 year old. I thought it would be nice to have someone to talk to since W isn't really talking to me. I informed W of this when she called one evening... that was not very well received which I expected. I've delayed talking with this woman in fear of upsetting the apple cart. I would only be friends and nothing more, but I know how perceptions work. W is very jealous. Should I use this other woman as bait, or will that just drive her away? I think I know the answer, I would just like validation.
As for DBing in my current situation... what is right?
Do not use the other woman as bait! Do not play any games with her. If you want to save your M, just do your best to show her that by giving her space, being as upbeat and pleasant as you can be in her presence & make sure to do the 180's and work on whatever it is that you need to work on to make yourself a better person - for yourself & your marriage.
I am not sure about you filing for seperation. Are your accounts not joint? I am referring to the fact that she said she doesn't have money to file? I am not sure if you filing is sending the right message. While I don't think you should/could refuse a seperation, I am not sure if you should be the one to file it if you don't want one. It sounds to me like she may not be 100% sure that is what she wants - so she thinks it will just be easier if you do it b/c that will make her feel better about it. Just a thought...
Money has always been an issue for us. She has her own account and we both agreed that I shouldn't have to pay for her atty. She can't afford an atty on what she makes, so we would be going through my atty. So far everything is civil and I don't have a problem with that.. if it does get ugly, that's when I will recommend she get her own. She wants to move out and needs the CS that a separation will provide to do so. I don't want to separate, but I want to keep her happy.
Let her be, let her have all her cake and let her eat it. Let her get her own apt and pay her own bills. Phone - you can login online and see the mins used or called and get a new pwd set if you know her ssn.
Friends dont stay out til 4 am esp when you dont know who this male friend is.
See the W, Listen to the W, but dont Speak back to the W. Bridle your tongue...
Oh yeah... 180's... She had been bugging me to quit smoking, so I had gone on Chantix... had been done for about 2-3 weeks when all this happened. I'm proud to say I have yet to go back and don't plan on it. I did drink quite a bit.. beer nightly. I don't think it was a big issue (she even said so), but I wasn't happy with it. Now I don't keep beer in the house. I will drink when I go out, but not at home unless it's a special occassion. I've also started working out and plan to continue to do so. I'm going to therapy on Wednesday and W has asked to call the same place. I have no issue with that either. I really need to get a plan in place and work on executing... I'm hoping the book will give me some guidance, but I've tried to start on my own. She's noticed already, but it's early... really just a week. I'm sure she's thinking "How long will this last" that's where I have to be dedicated... which I will.
Without the book, I keep seeing things about stopping pursuit. Am I in this zone? Being that we are friendly and all, I know she is lonely and wants attention.... which is what she gets from OM. I want to show her affection, but I don't want it to seem cheesy or desperate which I'm sure it does.
Yes you are in that zone, its a phase you are going tru. I have been tru that too and not I feel as if it didnt happend but it did since we still dont sleep together.
About the drinking, see if you can do without it. I have been sober for 2 1/2 months, thank God. No AA though, I am not ready for that. I do turn my life to God and church, this has helped me so much.
Do simple things you normally dont do, go to malls, buy new clothes, get a hair cut often, dress up on wknds. Go to dinner alone for a bit, invite her only if you feel like it.
See the W, Listen to the W, but dont Speak back to the W. Bridle your tongue...
jar love the name, are you a marine? I love that movie w/ Jake Gillenhall. Anyway, you are living classic WAW syndrome maybe MLC? How old is your W?
Rest assured, you are not alone. Personally, I get furious when I read stories like yours (like mine, whatever). Sure, there are always problems but unlikely the grass is greener. If we all went around doing this, the whole freakin society would collapse. I digress.
I wouldnt file anything if I were you. Just go about your biz.
C
Me: 46 Wife: 39 D: 13 S: 11, 9, 7 Bomb 3.2.07, Sep Same Day, D papers 11.1.07 Current Status - Wants to take me through Discovery, I will go to prison first.
She's 26. She has some issues, and is very immature. I believe part of this is to prove to herself she can be on her own. Which she definitely needs. Only problem is, MIL won't allow her to be truly on her own. Maybe that will work for me as well... MIL will start to hammer on her and she won't be able to fight her off alone. Or, she could lean on OM to help her out. Who knows. MIL doesn't like me and blames me for this of course... but W has been lying to MIL as well. Still, MIL is backing her D which I can't blame. MIL actually called this morning to ask if W was taking the treadmill they gave HER for Xmas. If not, they would like it back as theirs is on the fritz. W is taking the treadmill.
Let me give you some WAW insight. Your W is confused, hurt, probably angry. This is a tough time for her too. Do not file anything right away. You are way to early in this game to be giving up. Filing now will send the wrong message. It will say to her that you want this separation and divorce as well. If its not what you want then just let things be for a while and see where it leads. Give her time and space. You cannot control her or her actions regarding OM. Yes its awful to be here and going through this but you can make progress even if it seems hopeless. Try another MC if you didn't like the last one. Sometimes it takes more than one try. Read some of the other sitch's on here...lots of good advice.
Don't give up!
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
I guess I'm confused there. It's not what I want, but she has asked me to file for her because she can't afford to. I had brought this up when we first started talking about this. I'm worried that if I don't follow through (another issue I have) it will be perceived as either that or I don't care.. odd I know.
If I tell her that I don't want to file, she may perceive that as me keeping her from doing what she wants. Is that the wrong way to be looking at it?
Make her file. She is an adult. Too bad if she doesn't have the funds. If you do not want a divorce do not file for one. If you do file then it will seem like you don't care. At least holding off shows that YOU are commited to making your M work.
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
OMG (that's Oh My God) what a lame excuse. Agreed, if she wants this then you are not the bad guy for not helping her throw in the towel!
Keeping from doing what she want? Jar, you have got to be kidding? Again, she is 26 not 2. If you want to act like an adult you better consider the consequences of your actions. We all have, NOW anyway.
Dude, dont let her talk YOU into doing something you dont want out of wanting to look good in her eyes. This may be the thing that actually makes you look good in her eyes, i.e. leaving her to do what she wants to do / not do. Full Stop.
C
Me: 46 Wife: 39 D: 13 S: 11, 9, 7 Bomb 3.2.07, Sep Same Day, D papers 11.1.07 Current Status - Wants to take me through Discovery, I will go to prison first.
I agree on the not filing. I see what you are saying about having already "agreed" to be the one to file and how that may be perceived by her. I think you should have a talk with her and let her know that while initially - you thought that you could do it - but in actuality as you have had time to think about things - you realize that filing for S/D is not right for you and you want to fight and work on your marriage. While you will not stand in her way if that is what she chooses to do, you cannot be the one to file. If it makes you feel better, you can deposit some add'l money in her account and let her know that the choice is hers but that you are not filing. Who knows, maybe she'll just use the money to buy a cute pair of shoes? JK - Just some girl humor in there...
So I guess I should provide some backfill as well.... Originally, she asked me to move out. I had agreed and was going to stay at a buddies house for a while. After doing some research, I felt that wasn't the right thing to do from a CS/Custody perspective so I refused. We are in separate rooms now, but she wants to be physically separated from me. After the first couple of days, I've gone into "I just want you to be happy mode" even though this stuff is killing me. We actually walked around room to room last night picking what stuff she was taking and what stuff was staying here. BRUTAL. Another reason I was to file was for the "one throat to choke" approach. We aren't very well financially, so we couldn't both hire Atty's. Again, not making excuses (maybe I am), just laying the background. I believe she's fully aware that I'm not happy about this..I just see this as a key move.
I think the money thing is an excuse. If she REALLY wanted this, she could use a mediator i/o a lawyer, she could borrow money, get a part-time job, she could charge it and pay it off over time, etc. She is trying to get you to be the one to file so that she feels less guilty about doing it.
Jarhead, I am going to back up what the others have said. This is not your responsibility to file! Calmly and nicely explain to W that this is not what you want and cannot bring yourself to do it. You still think this is a mistake and feel that you can work things out. Something along those lines. If W wants out, she has to take the bull by the balls. Sorry you are here, dude, but there can be some good advice from the folks around here. Given the handle, I assume you are retired/active marine? If so, thanks for your service!
Good thinking, the same thing here, the W dont want to file since she knows she cannot afford it. And I wont do it either to make her be 'happy.' I told her it can cost her 20k to do so since I will fight it as long as I can and now there's no more talk of D. W said she would get a 2nd job but when she thought of making 160.00 minus taxes each wknd she said hell no she wont work. Besides she goes to school and work full time. Possibly a bluff for me to back off.
See the W, Listen to the W, but dont Speak back to the W. Bridle your tongue...
Hi Jarhead, While I was waiting for the book, I read all the articles on this website...even the first chapter of the book. I think you can get them in the archives and from the home page. When you get the book, read Step 5...this was suggested when I had a coaching consult with a DB coach. It is the Last Resort Technique...It's what I am doing now. I was told, 'don't be scared by the title...it's just a name. Read EVERYTHING you can before you talk with your W again. Then set your goals. Good luck.
M 45 H 44 M 11 T 14 Bomb 3/07 My sad story More details
OK... So I told her I didn't want to file. I told her I didn't feel right doing something I didn't want to do. I kind of got the impression she was happy to hear that, but it was followed by... "You knew this was going to happen... it's what we agreed upon." I reiterated it's not what I want... I don't want to give up on us. To which she replied "And I do"... I didn't respond. The obvious was "So you're sticking me with the bill?" And I said that's not the way I mean it.. I just don't feel comfortable doing this. She stared for a minute.. finally noticed that I had shaved my Goatee (which she likes) and asks what that is about. I said "something different... for you" She knew I did it for her anyway. Then she asked what was wrong with me... I told her that I loved her and I didn't want to give up on us.
She had to go... it was time for her to go to her Atty's. She has school tonight and won't be home till 10:00, so I get to sit on pins and needles till then. At least I'll have the girls to keep me busy!!
OK... So I told her I didn't want to file. I told her I didn't feel right doing something I didn't want to do. I kind of got the impression she was happy to hear that
No But! That is great - good for you. Just stay strong & consistent. Do whatever you need to do for the next few hours to make sure that you show her your best when she gets home. Make her rethink about the person she is wanting to leave.
I JUST GOT MY BOOK.... I'm so excited. To hopefully have a plan!!!
I started reading "His needs/Her needs" last night. The chapter on affection slammed me like a ton of bricks. I felt horrible... I wanted to go into our room and hold her because I hadn't for so long. I know that I've been wrong, I just want another chance to fix it.
I would say yes for the his needs/her needs but no for the DB'ing book. (I have read both). You don't want your actions to come across as being part of a plan or script... Which a WAS could think of the DBing book.
Read the does and don'ts on this website. Looks like you have met some of the good ones already.
In respect of the DB book, keep it to yourself, don't even let her see you reading it. I am treating my sitch as a war and using all the ammunition and information to my best efforts.
I totally agree with everything that all the other posters have said about the seperation. Explain to her that you love her, you are willing to give her space, but you are not going to pay to file. You can always say you originally agreed because your emotions were all over the place (I agreed to everything originally).
One of the best things you are doing is looking after yourself and your children. Now the really hard thing to do is 'not chase', in fact no relationship talk at all.
At the moment she will be trying to push your buttons and you have to rise above it, walk away and be the person she fell in love with.
I know this goes against all the natural order of things (does for me), but boy does it work. I have gone from 'I want you out and a spereation for several months' to 'I'm trying to sort out my work for our holiday in October'. You will slide - we all have, but be strong, use this website to vent your feelings and act 'as if' everything is great.
Can someone point me in the right direction for the do's and don'ts?
I'm sure I'm breaking all the rules.. I'm out of my skull right now. Things went from OK to horrible. On the way home from picking up the girls from school, she calls me. She's on the way back from the lawyer and she seems to like him. She goes into the "so what's this you don't want to file stuff.." then she gets another call... after 2-3 minutes I hang up. She calls me back we talk for like 2 seconds and she's interrupted again. I ask for her to talk to me, but she switches over. I hang up. She walks in the house like 2 minutes later and I say "Thanks for the respect of talking to me!!" She said "It was my mother" and I said, "We'll you can call her back.. we kind of have an issue here!!"
So basically, she said I'm trying to screw her. She couldn't afford a lawyer and now I'm scheming her into staying by not filing. Even worse, she somehow assumed I was paying for both lawyers. I asked her if this is really what she wanted. She's an animal nut.. we have 2 cats, 2 dogs and her passion... 2 horses. She's agreed to give them all up. I asked if that's what she really wants. Evidently it is.
I told her over and over I'm not trying to screw her.. that I love her and can't do something I don't think is right.
I basically took all the blame.. I've done this, I've done that.. I'm going to change... yada yadda yaddda. Of course the "How do I believe that"
I'm so stupid.... She then said that she needs her space... she needs to think... she doesn't even know if this thing is salvageable.
She is so angry with me right now... She said "Even if I wanted to work things out with you, it's little stuff like this that pushes me away" Meaning screwing her over.
I'm sick over this... I plan to read the book as much as possible tonight... hopefully I can put a plan in place instead of this gut wrenching yo-yo game that she is winning.
Oh yeah... she seems to get a kick out of knowing when I'm in pain... is that normal?
Soldier! Yes to all. It is called Alien Spew. Ignore it.
OK, believe what I am about to say young man. Your wife is giving you signals here that it is not over. Her anger w/ you is so predictable most of us could have written the script.
Help us out, how can you just get "out of her way?"
That is what this is going to take IMHO.
Anyone else, Jar needs some help.
C
Me: 46 Wife: 39 D: 13 S: 11, 9, 7 Bomb 3.2.07, Sep Same Day, D papers 11.1.07 Current Status - Wants to take me through Discovery, I will go to prison first.
This woman is driving me crazy... she was supposed to watch the game with me tonight after school. She wouldn't get home until 10-10:30. Well, she just calls me and acts like nothing happened. She sounds sweet and says some of her college friends are going to watch the game.. I responded by saying "Well, I'll see you tomorrow" to which she got offended.. (I'm PO'd)She then said well the game is on at 7 (I honestly thought it was 9) and she wouldn't stay for the whole game. She was wondering what time the game would be over. She told me not to go to bed until after she got home.
Why is she driving me nuts?
Also... the Last Resort.. I got the Divorce Remedy.. did I get the wrong book?
Why does she want u to stay up? Whatever she says to u just liste and keep your mouth shut and ears open. Use 48 hour rule on responding to anything negative if it all possible, in other words, think it over and ask yourself if what u are about to say will help the sitch at all or are u just being selfish of your needs which have to be put on the backburner for now. All advice we have give each other.
Me: 46 Wife: 39 D: 13 S: 11, 9, 7 Bomb 3.2.07, Sep Same Day, D papers 11.1.07 Current Status - Wants to take me through Discovery, I will go to prison first.
So last night was weird. She got home and we chatted.. about the Bengals game and I asked her about school... (Conversation.. one of my lacking areas). That went fine for a while, then she went at the "Who is going to file" thing again. I stood my ground.
Up until this morning, she had come in to let me know she was going downstairs for work. She didn't do that this morning. She may have realized that I had an alarm, but it still kind of stung.
I also heard her SMS go off on her phone.. I know she has told OM that he can text her from 6-3.. well it was 6:03.
She left me a note saying the house looked nice (Another area) and she asked if I could find a shelter for the cats. We had talked about that and I had agreed... I know that will be too difficult for her.
Stay the course with the filing. Read the books and get started. Like others have said there are signs she is not ready to abandon the M. Yes, she is angry hurt and very very confused. Thats one of the hallmarks of a WAW. Trust me I know cause I am one of them. Its not an easy road but if you are willing you have a good chance of getting this back on track. Wish my H would wake up and smell the coffee. I even bought the book and read it myself but its aimed more for LBS than WAS. My H refused to read the book (or any others)but I am still open to working on the M. No matter how angry I am or confused I know that D is not what I want in the end.
Give it time, give her space. See how it all washes out.
As for the cats, are you opposed to keeping them while all of this is going on/being sorted out? If she really holds them dear this could be an act of kindness that she would look fondly on. Just an idea.
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
I appreciate the encouragement.. I feel in my heart she's still there, but I understand she doesn't trust me. Time will tell.
As for the cats, the one cat has developed a problem where she pees in the house. We have her locked in the basement and as such so is the other cat. I hate to admit it, but I told her that I didn't want to keep the cats. We were debating on what to do with the one that pees anyway and our carpet upstairs needs to be replaced as it is.
Now we found out yesterday our youngest D has an MRSA Staff infection.. could be from the animals. So this boosted her request to have something done with them.
These were my first cats and it wasn't a good experience.
The idea is you want to do exactly the opposite of what she expects. Stop fighting her. Give her space. The more you try to convince her that you love her, she's making a mistake and you want her to stay, the more she'll resist and insist that she's making the right decision. You'll drive her further away. You want to do what will bring her back. Try using this rule of thumb..."is what i am about to do right now going to make me more attractive to her or push her away?" I had a DB coach session and this is what she told me.
Try taking a step back and get some perspective. I know it feels desperate right now, but she is still engaged with you. You need to give her space if she is going to come around. Unfortunately that takes time.
Absolutely... you guys are keeping me sane right now... that and my kids!!!
So.. as I mentioned, my W works at the daycare our kids attend, so I see her everyday. I get the girls up every morning, dress, feed and prepare them for school and drop them off.
I told her she looked nice and she said thanks and we chatted about the kids for a few minutes. I noticed a sticky on her board that was for me asking for stuff (Bills, Insurance #'s, Cobra) and I asked if that was for me... she said yes. I asked who was asking for the info and she said her and her atty.
Then she asked if I had to travel today (I'm a Sales Engineer) and I said yes. She said she needed her hearing aid fixed and asked if I would get it fixed for her. I said I could't that I would be out of town (back by dinner)and I was sorry. I said I also have some other things to attend to... she immediately spun on that... "what other things".. "Personal things.." "See... you are not open with me.. I tell you everything.." So I told her I needed to schedule some appointments for this and that.
Then she says "Go ahead and file" and I told her again that I wouldn't. I told her "I'm not giving up... I'm not the one turning this off... you are, so you should file"
She got PO'd and told me to get out that I wasn't being very nice.
Then she says "Go ahead and file" and I told her again that I wouldn't. I told her "I'm not giving up... I'm not the one turning this off... you are, so you should file"
She got PO'd and told me to get out that I wasn't being very nice.
Next time just leave out the last part "you are, so you should file".
In telling her that you are not going to be the one to file - try to let it come across more as what you are feeling and how you are emotionally still connected to her and the marriage vs. just standing your ground and making her do it. Let her know that you respect her feelings and will not stand in her way for what she feels she needs to do, but that in your heart, you don't feel that you could live with yourself if you filed. PERIOD.
Hang in there. Your W will try and test your patience to the limit. Whenever they say something that is hurtful, I count up to 10 and carry on the conversation as though nothing has happened.
Damn hard I know, but by not reacting, you are not pushing the buttons that you always used to push (arguing, fighting etc.). Be loving, but not clingy. Act slightly mysterious but don't hide anything from her.
I find that if I act as though there is no-one else, that I can cope and life does not suck big style.
Also, as the other sages have said, voice ALL your frustrations here. This means that any conversations with W are calm and collected.
Finally, DON'T FILE. Tell her 'you have given me a lot to think about and it will take me some time to understand it all' or words to that effect.
No comment on the cats as I am a dog lover - keep them if you can, but if they are affecting the kids, send them packing!
Oh yeah, I forgot about the cats. Keep in mind that I am a bit biased b/c I am a cat/dog/furry animal lover. Have you taken the 1 to the vet to see what is causing & what can be done about the peeing in the house? Why are you giving up the other one?
It sounds like your W is emotionally connected to the cats from what you said about her not being able to be the one to do it -seems to be a trend with her huh?
If it would help your sitch at all and put you in better light with the W - I would try and see if you can make the cat thing work.
Drop the D filing talk, W brings it up, tell her you gonna go out or something and will talk about it later. It will diffuse things better. Go for a ride or better yet go watch a movie until she calms down. Get a gold fish and get rid of the cats.
See the W, Listen to the W, but dont Speak back to the W. Bridle your tongue...
OK... I'll try and work with the cats... probably would be better all around.
I told her that I knew she was mad at me and I was sorry, but I couldn't do this in my heart. She responded saying she didn't want to be an ass. I responded saying she wasn't... I knew she was angry, hurt, scared etc. And I said I was too.
She responded saying "Me too, but we need to face facts divorce i love you but want to be happy"
I responded with "I understand that you want out and won't stop you"
She asked me to call her. We talked and basically I said the same things and she said the same things. She did say "don't give up on me"... I was floored!!! I told her I wouldn't and that I was working on things.
The cat thing would be a good 180.. I think anyway. I do like them, I just don't like the one peeing all over the house. Plus it gives me the excuse to work on the carpet!!
She supposedly has some kind of infection that is sensitive to antibiotics of all things. Poor thing... I know she is hurting, but it's disgusting at the same time. She finds anything soft she can (clothes, carpet, etc) and pees on it. She knows she's not supposed to.. I'll watch her got to lay on something and she'll walk away when she sees me.
Have you thought about setting up a litter box with something soft for her to P on that she likes i/o of litter. Then reward her with her favorite treat anytime you see her using it? Maybe find some old towels or clothes or something. And just change it out like you would litter?
Cats are very clean & habitual animals by nature so I would think if you supply someplace for her to go and train her to go there she would learn to do so.
That's a thought... I'm also thinking what it would be like to change towels/clothes. NASTY. Would you wash them? I couldn't see running that through the washer!!
The Vet did have some medicine and food we could try. It's been a frustrating ordeal with her, but hopefully this will work. Obviously the carpets upstairs need to be removed. We already did that in the basement (grrrrr), so it just takes time and money... something we all have tons of right!!
I guess I wasn't thinking about the washing part. Well either way, I am sure you can find something to make the situation work - and I think it will make you look good in your W's eyes...
OK folks... I'm in a lot of pain today.. I'll break this into multiple posts to keep it readable. I could really use some support.
The MIL. Well the MIL is an interesting creature. She is very much in charge of my W and basically does everything for her. Well.. this whole deal was foreign to the MIL as W was keeping her at distance. Until recently that is. Yesterday I get home from work.. W calls me and is all excited. She is at the Dodge Dealer and there is a great deal on a vehicle. I was stunned.. I asked who was up there, and she said it was her parents. We have an 03 Truck that's paid off and I agreed to give her. I was going to sell it and get her an SUV and split the profits. Well, MIL and FIL decided to go find her a vehicle and basically had a deal worked out. W had to basically borrow 1300 from FIL to pay for vehicle. They asked me if this was OK!! LIKE I WOULD SAY NO AND RUIN EVERYTHING!!! I felt as though the MIL just ripped my balls off right then and there. The whole time I was talking to FIL, MIL is whispering to W and bad mouthing me. I went to pick the girls up in the truck and noticed that W had been to her bank and got a new account (get me off of hers).. I know that's a MIL move. I also found out that MIL is loaning W the money for the L. This woman is very evil and is now back in full control of W. My W is so spoiled, that MIL will make sure this goes as smoothly as possible for her.
So W got a new SUV yesterday. It wasn't what she really wanted, but I tried to be as supportive as possible. I congratulated her etc. I didn't expect her to run back into my arms or anything, but she was very cold about it. No thank you, not a smile or anything. I'm hoping she was consciously being cold to not let the new car give false signals. Anyway, it was an OK evening. We talked.. about her work mostly. She brought some L stuff up. She did mention Divorce, and I asked if it was Divorce or Separation. She said that Separation was the same thing, so Divorce. We can always delay it or put it off. I was so hurt.. I heard the delay part, but I believe that was only to calm my nerves.
Later, we were talking and she mentioned OM called her about his divorce. She rambled on about some stuff and I couldn't help it... I said "Yeah... Tiffany has been pinging me... but I haven't talked to her".. I know this shocked her... she said "You got you a little girlfriend huh" jokingly... I said "Yeah... whatever" and she spun and stared at me. I said "No, she's just someone to talk to, just like yours" To which she flipped me off.
Oh yeah... I forgot to mention that she is probably filing for the D today.
She also asked me to get her hearing aid fixed for her today.
This morning, I took the girls in and acted like I didn't have a care in the world. Said good morning etc. Told her that I was going to get new car seats for the girls for my vehicle so we wouldn't have to trade vehicles all the time (I think this hit her a little) and she asked if she could have them since they were newer. I said No.. I'm buying them for my car. Probably not the best way to answer, but that's what I did. She then asked what was wrong with me. I said "Nothing... I'm fine" in a cheery voice. "Why?" I asked... "You just seem different, that's all" Then I went to take our other daughter to her room and gave her a busy "Bye!!" and she looked stunned. As I left, I passed her room and gave her a busy wave... she still looked stunned and gave me a depressed looking wave.
I hope I'm not making things worse, but I have to get myself feeling better!!
Talked to MIL earlier today. I had to get an account number for a bill, and she had the nuggets to ask me if W was still going through with this. I responded "Well... you are paying for her L". Whammo.. off guard. "Well.... she asked for a loan.." Then she proceeded to tell me that they weren't trying to overstep bounds etc with the vehicle, blah blah blah. I also mentioned that she had gotten a new bank account and that it had hurt my feelings. She asked how I knew and I said I saw the stuff sitting on the passenger seat. She said "Well maybe someone is talking to her"... DUH!! She did tell me that W told her I was "Hot" the other day. At least I know some things are paying off!! :))
Anyway, W calls and says she's just checking in to see how I am. I said "I'm fine" like nothing was going on.. I asked how she was and she hesitated.. then she said she was OK. I didn't push. She then said.. "If we don't sign the papers we're OK right?" I said "Sure.. we can hold of as long as it takes." She then said she was confused. I told her I knew and I understood. Then like the prarie dog, she hopped back in her hole.. "I just need some space.. I need to think." I understand..
Someone should mention that in the book "You will say you understand everytime you speak with SO"!!
Thats right Jar. Thats the name of the game. Validate, repeat and add "I understand". Even if you are irritated, angry and resentful. Let her see this new you while you are working on being a wonderful H.
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
So interesting evening... W only filed for separation!! (yay!!)
I get home in enough time to hang out with W and girls for a little bit and then I have my first shrink appt. I'm sitting on the couch with youngest D and W is helping oldest D with homework in the kitchen. Everythings light and OK.
As I'm walking between the kitchen and family room, I catch W texting under the table!!! I ask her what she was doing and she fumbled about the phone being in her pocket etc. I said "Whatever" and walked away. Shaking my head the whole time. She asked "What's wrong".. "Nothing" lather rinse repeat a few times. Now every time I walk by her, the phone keeps getting scooted under something. GRRRRRRR. What balls... stupid OM!!
Anyway, had a panick attack on the way to the shrink as I thought she was probably inviting OM over.
Got home from shrink and we went downstairs to workout. She mentions that she may go for a drive after her workout?? Whatever. She then proclaims she needs to shower after working out instead of doing it in the morning.
Since I've known this woman, she has NEVER taken a shower in the evening. I can tell you she's done it at least twice this week. She said that one of her female friends (who I despise because she keeps inviting OM)asked her to come over. Again... "Whatever" "What's wrong".. lather rinse repeat.
She came back down smelling nice after her shower and said... "Please don't be mad at me" "For what" "I am going for a drive" I was livid.. I said "We'll I'm not happy about it, but you do whatever you need to do" "What's wrong" "If you don't know then it doesn't matter"
She then asked me to get off the treadmill for a minute.. she had to ask 3 times cause I didn't understand what she wanted. She then kissed me on the cheek!!??
What is she doing to me?
I think being the angry guy from time to time works as well. I'll monitor.. If she comes home past 12 tonight, she'll get the silent treatment tomorrow.
Question... I can show on her cell bill where she has been texting this OM like crazy... the bill won't be available till the 29th, which is 3 days after she moves. I was thinking of highlighting all the entries from him and asking "This is just friends?"
I know it's wrong and off, but I'd like to hear your thoughts!!
Man, I don't know. I have no advice to give you. But, I can totally understand your frustration. She is all over the place with playing with your emotions. You have some good control. I would be flipping out.
The one thing I will advice you to do though (if she does come back after 12), is to act as if. Don't even let it bother you. Be the bigger person. The silent treatment will not prove anything to anyone. It may make you fell like you have control, but quite the opposite. It will just prove to her that you are an ass (since she thinks you are blind to her and OM, because she is to sneeky for you). And it will also drive her farther into the arms of OM.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Hey jarhead I would advise against the silent treatment it will probally not have the effect you want. Instead of the silent treatment go out and do something. My W has done the texting thing with OM, that OM is now out of the picture, although I am sure he will be replaced. I was tempted to call her out with the phone bill, but I am glad I didn't it will no move her any closer to you.
Its difficult to control the anger and frustration, but if you are able to it will only help in the long run.
Me - 34 W - 33 S - 5 D - 4 M - 14 years Bomb 1 Dec 06 Bomb 2 Aug 07 Separated - Aug 07 WAW Renting own place - Dec 07
Yeah... I was good this morning.. I was cheerful and said hello.
MAN SHE LOOKED HOT TODAY!!!
She's going back to L today to finalize stuff and I should be able to pick up the papers tomorrow.
She seemed a little distant this morning, so who knows.. probably from the attention she gave.
I did notice that she didn't take the note off of the door. Maybe she didn't notice it? I took it down and threw it away.
I know the phone bill thing is wrong, but I want her to know what I know. I'd much rather her quit telling me lies and sneaking around. I understand why, she just needs to be a little more considerate about it.. ie at least wait until I'm out of the room!!!
So I went to the mall to fix W's hearing aid. She wears 2 and doesn't take very good care of them, which sucks cause they cost 5K!! Normally, the guy does a few things and it's right as rain. Well, this time it needs to be sent out.
I texted my wife this info and she calls me back.
She's freaking out.. she's taking our oldest D to kindergarten and the phone volume isn't loud enough and she's upset about her hearing aid etc etc. I apologize and calmly suggest getting into see the Hearing Aid folks more often.. yada yada yada.
We go back and forth (not fighting) and then she says "I'm sorry... I'm just not in a good mood today" to which I asked what was wrong and she responded "Nothing... I shouldn't even be talking to you!!" I asked her what that was about and she said "Since we aren't going to be together anymore" I asked what she meant by that and she said "The Divorce". Our D was then heading into school, so the conversation was derailed for a second. When she got back on, I told her that I was still her friend and she can talk to me about things.
She hesitated and said OK. I asked if there was anything she wanted to talk about and she reluctantly said no. She said she had to go.
I know what you mean. When I see my wife after her work, I am like d*mn she is smoking! I have started to let her know what I am thinking now, instead of just thinking it. She loves the compliments.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Just spoke to W on her way to L. She sounds distant...asks me to tell the girls she loves them and misses them. She has school tonight so she won't see them till tomorrow. She then proceeds to tell me about some history presentation that she has next week. Her "partner" texted her earlier today and wants to work on it after class.
AM I REALLY THAT F'N STUPID????
I'm half tempted to call one of my buddies over to watch the girls after they are in bed and go trap this damn thing once and for all.
I sounded unhappy on the phone, and she asked what was wrong and I of course said "nothing".
I asked her what was wrong and she said she was depressed (normal for her) and that nevermind.
Just spoke to W on her way to L. She sounds distant...asks me to tell the girls she loves them and misses them. She has school tonight so she won't see them till tomorrow. She then proceeds to tell me about some history presentation that she has next week. Her "partner" texted her earlier today and wants to work on it after class.
AM I REALLY THAT F'N STUPID????
I'm half tempted to call one of my buddies over to watch the girls after they are in bed and go trap this damn thing once and for all.
I sounded unhappy on the phone, and she asked what was wrong and I of course said "nothing".
I asked her what was wrong and she said she was depressed (normal for her) and that nevermind.
You need to find your happy place!
One thing that has always pissed my wife off is when I'm hurt, I get pouty and then I refuse to tell her what's wrong. Don't do that! Either get your head around it and choose to not get upset by it, or just fake it and don't let on you're upset. Being upset and unhappy is only going to drive her away, remember you want to be the happy fun guy she'll want to be with.
That's what I'm not so sure about... if you read my posts from last night, by telling her I was unhappy with the situation, I got a kiss on the cheek and a hug.
I guess I'm paying for that today, but maybe it's guilt on her part.
She just called and said she was done with L. She's going to the chiropractor, coming home to pick out some clothes for the girls then heading to school.
Just b/c you got a kiss on the cheek & a hug does not mean that she is reconsidering - it most likely means that she FEELS guilty. I think for most of our WAS, it is not that they don't have feelings for us and feel badly that they are hurting us - but that they don't THINK they should be with us any more because of x,y,z past history etc. The only thing you can do is change those things & you have to be in a good frame of mind in order to do so. Rather than asking your buddy to watch the girls to go check up on her - why not ask your buddy to watch the girls so you can go out and have a good time yourself?
Good for you! I didn't mean to come off snide...if so, I apologize!
I went to one person for about 1 month and then didn't feel like I was getting what I needed so I switched to someone else and they have been much better at helping me identify & work on the problems I am dealing with. Just make sure whoever you go to is a good fit for what your needs are.
OK... so yesterday/last night I decide to get some things done around the house and things that needed to be done.
Got her a new kit for her hearing aids (hers was broken) Got medicine for the cat Folded our D's laundry which had been sitting in baskets for weeks Cleaned the master bath (pet peeve of hers) Did some laundry Worked out
She calls to tell me she has a presentation due next week and will be staying late to study. (She's killing me).
I broke... I mentioned how she's avoiding me. I told her I understood and to be careful on her way home. She said "Oh you care huh?" To which I implored and she said she didn't want to argue. She said making comments like that make her wonder. I reiterated that I felt she was avoiding me. She then told me she would probably need to work with her friend next week, and I told her that was fine but I would probably be going out with some guys from work (made it up) next Tuesday. She got all curious.. (Who, Why, etc) then said "Whatever, I'm not your boss" She never says that!! She says "Well.. just make sure I can go out one night during the week." I reminded her that she had been out every night this week and she responded "Really?.. Oh well"
This feels like it's getting worse, but I don't know what to do.
During the course of moving around the house, I had locked the door coming in from the garage. This is the primary door we use to get in/out. Woke up at 12:30 to her beating on the door. She was all freaked out about how I locked her out. I explained that I was doing stuff around the house and locked it and forgot. She immediately chimed in with how they finished their project and she wouldn't have to go next week. She then asked if I was mad at her to which I said no.. she asked "Promise?" to which I said yes. We then had an awkward hug and went to bed.
This morning... no thanks for cleaning the bathroom, I mentioned the kit and she complained that her hearing aid wasn't in it, mentioned the cat medicine and the fact I gave it to her (the cat) and she just said "Yeah, I noticed that"
She did ask me what time I was going out tonight..GRRR
As she pulled out of the drive, she was texting on her phone. Which I imitated in the driveway.
This morning... no thanks for cleaning the bathroom, I mentioned the kit and she complained that her hearing aid wasn't in it, mentioned the cat medicine and the fact I gave it to her (the cat) and she just said "Yeah, I noticed that"
This is important!!! Do these things because you want to do them - do not do them and point them out to her and expect her to give you a gold star. Believe me, if you are consistent with your actions she will notice & it will be better if you are not continually trying to point out to her your good deeds.
Originally Posted By: jarhead
As she pulled out of the drive, she was texting on her phone. Which I imitated in the driveway.
I hate to say it - but that does seem a bit immature to me - try not to let her see you that way. The best thing you can do is be the better person. Continue to show her you are GAL'ing and that will get her wondering as it appears it already has started to.
Got her a new kit for her hearing aids (hers was broken) Got medicine for the cat Folded our D's laundry which had been sitting in baskets for weeks Cleaned the master bath (pet peeve of hers) Did some laundry
Did you do things because you wanted to do them or because you have a hidden agenda (guilt, manipulation, false hope)? From your response at the bottom of you post, looks like you had a motive behind them. How often has she performed the same task and you have never thank her for doing them?
Originally Posted By: jarhead
I broke... I mentioned how she's avoiding me.
Guilt and manipulation. She is not going to want to spend any real true constructive time with you under those type of terms. She would only be doing it out of you making her feel guilty. Is that the type of company you want from her?
Originally Posted By: jarhead
I told her that was fine but I would probably be going out with some guys from work (made it up) next Tuesday. She got all curious.. (Who, Why, etc) then said "Whatever, I'm not your boss" She never says that!! She says "Well.. just make sure I can go out one night during the week." I reminded her that she had been out every night this week and she responded "Really?.. Oh well"
Again with the guilt and manipulation, but with a bit of jealous added. Once again is that the type of relationship you want with your wife? One where she is involved, because you have manipulated her with false fact and guilt? Get your own life. Why try to use the fact that she is getting her own life against her?
Originally Posted By: jarhead
This feels like it's getting worse, but I don't know what to do.
It feels like it is getting worse, because it is with your actions. You need to work on yourself. You need to get over your self pity, your jealousy, your anger. You need to stop trying to make her feel guilty through manipulation. You need to work on being the man she feel in love with. Start off by being her friend and not her accuser.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
I can feel the pain and I have been through it myself (as recently as last night), but hold your head up high, work on yourself and don't expect any compliments. I know it hurts every time they push your buttons, but if you don't react then they will get tired of that game.
Hang in there and fight the good fight - we're all supporting you here.
You are all right... I slipped. I was trying to manipulate things into the way I wanted them.
I did do those things because I wanted to.. actually the D's laundry was getting on my nerves and instead of griping at her (she usually folds the girls laundry and puts it away) I figured I'd take care of it. As for the other laundry... I always do that. No difference. Maybe I should stop (180).
The bathroom is one I admit I did for her. Won't happen again because it didn't work.
Nugget... your words are probably the harshest yet truest words I've read. That's the kind of smacking around I needed.
I'm trying to figure out the right balance of GAL and being friendly with her, but I keep giving into the fact that she has a life and I don't.
NO MORE!!!
She did text me this morning and told me to have a wonderful day. I responded for her to do the same.
We talked this afternoon, mostly about L stuff and what time I am going out tonight etc. She makes it out like she has plans. Just something I have to put out of my mind.
Nugget... your words are probably the harshest yet truest words I've read. That's the kind of smacking around I needed.
They are harsh and true, because I have committed everything you did to your wife, to my wife also. ALmost to the "T". I speak to you from experiences. I see my own mistakes, in your mistakes, so I can totally relate. We all need to be smack from time to time. I'll smack you and expect you to smack me in return. The key to all this is to learn from our mistakes and make ourselves better from doing them and not to concentrate on self pity for having done them. Now, go get her tiger!
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
I've followed some of your story and it's definitely similiar to mine. If you could, post a link to your current thread.
Went and got the papers today. What a crappy thing that was. Went to the CH and it turns out her L wasn't done yet. Got em there and was served there.
I thought she had filed for separation, but it looks like the D.
She also asked for me to repay her atty fees. Is she NUTS?
Anyway... in all of this, she needed help getting her water turned on for her Apt, so I took care of it for her. I probably ought to make that the last one huh?
She's getting overwhelmed by all of the costs of moving. I'm trying to be supportive without giving her cake and allowing her to eat it too.
I've followed some of your story and it's definitely similiar to mine. If you could, post a link to your current thread.
I'm one of those people who has threads all over the place, unfortunately. Not sure which one I can point you to that would sum up my sit for you. I'll look.
Originally Posted By: jarhead
She also asked for me to repay her atty fees. Is she NUTS?
Evidently LOL. Either that or she thinks you are stupid and will pay them.
Originally Posted By: jarhead
Anyway... in all of this, she needed help getting her water turned on for her Apt, so I took care of it for her. I probably ought to make that the last one huh?
I don't think so. You still need to help her when you see fit. You should be there for her like a best friend would.
Originally Posted By: jarhead
She's getting overwhelmed by all of the costs of moving.
She will soon realize that trying to manage and budget living on your own is not all that easy or great. She will start to feel the consequences of her decision. She will have to start taking on a lot of the tasks and expenses that you took care of in the past. This will help her to see how much you really did do for the R.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Couple of updates... I post in two seperate posts.
Wife got home from work and told me not to worry that the papers said D, there was a reason for that. Still haven't gotten that explanation. She also said she felt like I didn't care, that I had been cold to her the last few days. CRAP!!!
I have to admit, I've not been very good at this, but Nuggets words really hit me!! I told her I apologize and that I just didn't know how to talk to her or how to give her what she wanted. That seemed to smooth things over.
Went out last night.. W was peculiar about what time I was coming home.. very nerve racking.
While I'm out, I get a text from W stating that she was sorry where our relationshiop had gone, but she felt like we would be better friends. I responded that I understood and I'm sure we would be great friends if that's what she wanted. She responded with "I still love you and always will" I responded with the same. She called me and again asked what time I would be home. She then told me to have fun and not come home before 1:00. She told me she was locking the door. I got home ~12:30 and sure enough the door was locked. I called the home phone and she answered.. I asked to be let in.. even though she was just inside on the couch, it took her a few minutes to unlock and open the door!! That's when I think it got ugly.
We talked... she told me she was sorry about things, we talked about different things. She said she was confused, she needed to figure out her life. I told her I understood and that I would wait for her. She wasn't sure about that. I also told her that I would forgive her for anything that she has done. Not a good idea... she still maintains that she isn't having an affair. I told her that at the least she's having an EA. Someone to talk to about our stuff instead of me. She mentioned this other girl, I told her I wasn't even talking to her. She wanted to go for a drive... I didn't want her leaving the house and I told her so. She said she had to get away and didn't want me to be mad at her. She left... I went to bed.
Not sure what time she got home.. she's still sleeping now.
Man I need to learn to shut up and just be a friend.
Yeah... not sure what that was about. She even locked the door. She said it was just so I would have a good time. It took her a few minutes to unlock the door which is very weird.
Anyway... today we went and shopped for bedroom furniture for our D's in the new Apt. Spent ~$850!! She was shocked and gave me a very sincere thanks.
Came home and went grocery shopping. While she was working out, snuck a peak at her phone. She texted OM to call her when I left to go grocery shopping.
Due to this, I did have another setback. She asked what time the game was tomorrow because she may watch it with a "friend" from school. I was pissed.. she had said previously that she would still watch football with us and she's already bailed on the Monday nighter.
I let it get to me.. I told her that I would take the girls somewhere and she said I had to let her know where. I responded with "What do you care... you either want to watch it with your family or you don't" Not received well, but she is making us her plan B. She expected us to hang out here and not make any plans in case her friend didn't want to watch the game with her.
She probably didn't like facing her selfishness, but that's what it was and I didn't like it.
Oh well.. I apologized profusely and I think she's OK. She also noticed the flowers I got for the kitchen table.
Spent some time with her while she was doing her hair.. just talking and listening.
So W was out till 5:30. She came home and kissed me on the cheek and hugged me in bed. She asked if I wanted to go to breakfast.
I've screwed it up big time.
On the way to breakfast, I told her that I was thinking her moving out would be a good thing. I'm hung up on her and she's not interested in me. I need to let her go and that us being apart would be the best thing. I could tell it wasn't what she wanted to hear.
We argued throughout breakfast and I've been in a pissy mood all day. Should've just went somewhere, but she decided it would be better for her to go watch the game with a "friend" rather than her family.. more importantly, her 2 D's.
I also noticed her ring was missing, but she had her other ring on. She dismissed it and said she took it off this morning at home. While doing laundry etc, I went to look for it and it was nowhere to be found.
I mentioned that I couldn't find it and that it was probably in her purse.. she tried to sneak her purse upstairs, but I asked her to look for it in front of me because I wanted to know.
Whatever... she went upstairs and put it into a container that I had just looked in.
I confronted her about the lying. I honestly would've been better off if she had just said she wasn't wearing it. I cannot stand being lied to.
I blew up... really needed her to tell me whether or not she was going to wear her ring or not. She left wearing it, but why? If you're going to take it off while you're out, why bother?
Nugget... I need help man.. what were those anger books you recommended?
jarhead, don't focus on what you think you may have did wrong. Just learn from it and try to not repeat it in the future.
I really do suggest you get control of your anger. Or at least begin to understand what anger is and how it controls how you act or react. For me just learning more about what anger is, has helped and changed how I handle it greatly. Once you begin to understand it and learn that it does not control you, you ultimately control it, everything else seems to start to fall into place.
There are several books on anger management. Drop by your local book store and browse through the self help section. One that I just finished that has helped me a ton is "Beyond Anger" 'a guide for men'. Another one I reading is "The Ultimate Guide To Transforming Anger".
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Thanks nugget. I honestly feel that these episodes are furthering our R. She was at a friends watching the game, and she was texting me the whole time.
Not sure where this ends up, but it's been a roller coaster!!
So last night we told the D's. They are so cute... didn't even register with them. I hope they make it through this OK. Drove by the Apt and showed them.
Not much else to speak of... just trying to be nice to each other.
Odd day today... The morning started out with her asking me to bring some stuff into school for the girls etc. No big deal at exchange. I didn't stop by on my way to say bye to her. Left her alone all day. She texted me saying she needed to stay after school tonight to finish a "project". I responded with "That's fine" even though I think she's lying threw her teeth.
She responded with "Are sure - not mad?" to which I responded "Nope I figured you would" and she asked what I meant by that. I responded basically saying she mentioned it last week. And she responded "Oh thought you were mad again" I responded "No. I'm not getting mad anymore" She wanted to call me later... she called and was freaking out.. Like I didn't care or I was quitting. She was even freaking out about me taking the kids away from her. She said she had good info that I wanted to do that. I was baffled.. I didn't antogonize her, but I'm curious what she thinks she's done to warrant that. Kind of scary. Got home and she gave me a hug.. said she wanted to be best friends no matter what. She even wanted to kiss me on the cheek when we are out. I asked for one to which she obliged.
This is very odd... I get what she is doing. She's stringing me along so I'll hang out while she figures out what she's going to do. What a crap situation.
Jar, I giggled at your post, not because I found it silly, but just out of disbelief about her reactions to you and your responses. Great job on the anger comment and also on not getting angry.
Originally Posted By: jarhead
Is it worth it?
Sometimes you would give anything to make it work and others you just wonder. Either way, I bet you feel like me and know that at least the changes we are making for ourselves is definitely worth it.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Yeah... so last night it was like being in that song.. ."2 steps forward.. 3 steps back"
She said she would call me between class and when she was studying. At 11:40, I texted her and asked if she was OK. She responded saying she was and she was on her way home.
I left a note on the door:"Gorgeous, Hope your studying went well and that you got your project done. Sweet Dreams J"
She came up and just woke me up (no kiss on the cheek). I asked if she got everything done etc and she said she had. I said good and rolled over. She asked what was wrong, and I told her that I was concerned about her. She said thank you and thanks for understanding and went to bed.
Must've been a good evening I guess.
Found another good book... "Good Husband, Great Marriage". Not sure I agree 100% with what the guy is saying, but it follows the basic principles of everything else (make the changes in yourself, etc)I've read and heard.
I can say a few things now:
1. I appreciate what I have done to steer my marriage in the wrong direction. 2. I know have thoughts and ideas of how to treat a woman that I never have had before. 3. I have an anger issue that I believe I can control. 4. I'm a better person today than I was 2 weeks ago. 5. Whether or not my W wants to work this out, I will be a better man, father and husband for someone.
OK... so we had our "dropping D off at school" conversation today. She calls me either on the way or after. She tells me that she feels bad about not spending time with D because she was on the phone. She begins to tell me about OM and his divorce and how his kid is in trouble at school... blah blah blah. Basically, OM wants W to "talk" with his ex. He wants them to meet tonight. She was reaching for me to do or say something. She finally asked what I thought, and I told her that it wasn't my place. She didn't like that answer, and I asked what she was asking for... she didn't need my permission. To which she responded "No... I'm not asking for your permission,.. well I guess I am."
Now... I've been reading anger books etc, and I had to diffuse this one.
I asked her if I could be honest with her. I told her that I do not like OM and really don't like their R.. even if it is just friends. I would prefer to not hear about OM and what he has going on as it makes me angry and I don't want to be angry anymore. I was amazed at how calm I remained on the situation. She was not a calm and happy camper. She asked if she should just lie to me then. I responded that right now I have some trust issues with her. She asked what I meant by that. I told her that due to some of the recent issues that have gone on, I have some trust issues with her.
Well... she basically said that we were done and that I ruined any hope for getting back together.
We talked a little more about it (how she had lied to me.. she couldn't remember) and she then hung up on me.
I called her back to ask if she hung up on me and she said "Yes" I told her I'd let her go and talk to her later.
Oh Jarhead, I feel for you. Please just remember that she is confused & lost. She is constantly looking to you for approval for what she is doing - always asking "is that OK", or "are you mad"? That does not sound like someone who is done by any means. Remember the whole philosophy of if it is not working change it? Maybe you should try standing up for yourself with her and let her see that it really bothers you that she is with another man (to whatever degree). While I wouldn't say for you to act jealous, it is sometimes good to let the woman know that you don't want her being with anyone else? Make any sense?
It just seems to me like she keeps asking you to firm with her and you keep just letting her do her thing.
LMAO "I HATE WOMAN!!! You are to funny. You love the heck out of your W.
Jar, you did great with the conversation. You kept your composure and even controlled where the conversation went. All that and no anger. Good for you.
She on the other hand lost control and her composure. She said things to you that I do not believe she means, but said them out of her anger defense mechanism. You know what anger defense mechanism I'm talking about. You know the one that used to control you in the past and now you are beginning to control it.
I am glad you put your foot down with her concerning OM. You want nothing to do with him, NOTHING!!! and she needs to know that. In my opinion if you listen to her about him or act as if you are listening to her about him then that tells her you are ok with him in a way and that her behavior is acceptable. So, don't give in to her need to discuss OM with you.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
She knows that I do not like him and suspect her of having an A with him. Why on earth would she insist on bringing him up?
I would say she brings it up to try to justify to herself that it is ok that she is doing it. You know and she knows that there is no justifying it. But she tries will continue to try to do so. That is the only way she can deal with the guilt. By you not falling into her trap of trying to get your approval, in a way, by you talking about it with her, will only continue to fuel her self doubt and guilt. If she can get you do fall into the trap of discussing OM, then she feels more justified in her decision to have an affair and the guilt begins to fade.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Her mother is helping her figure out what she wants.. supposedly her mother has been telling her that I'm going to take the kids away etc.
Man, that can really F with your wife's mind. My wife's friends all had her convinced that I would keep our S away from her. Bunch of BS. I had never even threatened her, even in the heat of battle to do that. Well needless to say, she was so persistent that that is what I would do, I, yes I filed for the D just so she could have her visitation rights on paper and enforceable by the courts. I had to do it just to prove to her and show her that I would never do that to her or our S. I know friends and family are important as a support group for our spouses, but they can for sure throw a wrench into things at time. I just wish sometimes they would think with logic instead of with worst case scenario type thinking. Or just keep their opinions to themselves.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Wow... what an evening. The W and I argued quite a bit. She asked me to go to the store and get some contact solution. She acted weird when I came in, but not biggie. We were talking about some stuff when I heard her phone buzzing. I asked if it was her phone and she played it off. It buzzed again, and I asked if I could see it. She said it was probably OM.. I picked it up and sure enough it was. Basically, she was on the phone with him when I came in the door.. she hung up on him and had apologized. To which he replied he knew. We talked at lenght about this.. not sure we got anywhere.
My anger got the better of me though and I texted the OM.
I'm still texting with him as though we are friends... trying to pick up intel. What a boost this would be... get intel from OM!!
So I ended up texting OM for about an hour. He claims they are just friends and that I was whacked out for not letting her talk to another man. I explained how secretive it was and how addicted she seemed to him. After a while, he said he respected my position and understood how it would come off as something else based on her hiding it etc. Could it be possible that she's infatuated with him and he really isn't interested in her more? (I'm a guy, so I know the "any port in the storm" routine). He said he would back off, to which I replied if they were just friends I don't have an issue with it. If it turns into something more, I'd kick his ass. His W cheated on him, and he said he wouldn't do that to anyone else.
In conversation with W last night, it appears that one of her big issues is that I manipulate (no crap huh?) and guilt her into doing things. I can admit that sometimes I do, but I didn't know I did it all the time!! Any suggestions on how to deal with that? I've researched anger, relationships, etc, but not sure where to start with that one.
I let W know this morning that I had been texting OM. She was furious. I told her it was cool and I wasn't going to bother her about it. She freaked and said he would never talk to her again and that I was ruining her life. That hurt. Taking another man from her is ruining her life!
Anyway... I've told her I'm leaving her alone... she stayed home from work today and I'm in the basement while she's upstairs. I'm going to avoid as much as possible.
I texted OM and told him her comments this morning and he replied that she had called him (while I took our D's to school)and he didn't answer. He responded with a text stating "You guys need space.. You cannot work out a 2 person relationship with 3 people." He also told me that he'll be nice, but he respects my position and will keep his distance.
W hasn't really spoken to me other than asking for the checkbook to order school pictures of our D.
I like you have manipulated my wife throughout our M also. For me the manipulation stemmed from my anger and low self esteem. Since working on my own happiness and my anger I have overcome my need to manipulate for the most part. When we feel we are losing control we manipulate. Get rid of the need to control and you will not manipulate.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Wow... she is absolutely depressed right now. She looks like I shot her dog.
I don't know what to do. She is so angry with me right now.. I don't know whether to talk to her or leave her alone. I've left her alone for the most part minus any little onesy twosy stuff.
I have read lots on these websites that the OP infatuation can be like drugs and that the separation that a person goes through is like withdrawal. If this OM is honorable and does the right thing by you & your W by cutting all ties then you have a good chance of working things out. Yes, she is going to be mad as a hornet for a while but once she gets over that I bet she will be racked with guilt and depression. Sounds like she is feeling that way now.
Very ballsy of you to converse with the OM but in this case if he is true to his word it may have worked in your favor.
Good luck again with your sitch.
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
You crossed her boundaries. The OM is part of her support group and you have compromised him. She is hurt by what you have done. It would be like if had a really good friend who was there for you through all this and she went to that friend and tried to get him involved in her POV. Give her a heartfelt apology, no excuses, no reason for doing it, no explanation.Just apologize to her.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
I agree that you have crossed into her area, but I still think you did the right thing and it looks like the OP could be a good ally to have. Nuggett is right, apologise for contacting the OP and leave it at that.
As to the talking - don't at the moment, let her calm down as anything you say at the moment will be heard the wrong way.
Jarhead I have followed your situation and think you still have a real good shot at getting your W back. Right now you are your own worst enemy don't let her get you angry and emotional and react in a negative way. Don't try and control her.
Me - 34 W - 33 S - 5 D - 4 M - 14 years Bomb 1 Dec 06 Bomb 2 Aug 07 Separated - Aug 07 WAW Renting own place - Dec 07
OK... yesterday she did ask me to help her with a new car seat she bought for our youngest D. Otherwise, very cold and uninterested. At one point, she was working on some work stuff and I asked if there was anything I could help with, and she said "You could fix what you broke" I asked her to repeat and she said nevermind.
I decided it was time to go out. Went over to a friends house for a few hours, came home, told her goodnight and went to bed.
I noticed yesterday that she hadn't worn her ring(s) all day. This morning, her ring(s) are still sitting on the sink.
I got dressed up in my work clothes (khaki's, button down shirt),shaved and pretty much made myself look good.
Took the D's in to school and she would hardly look me in the eye. She's so angry at me right now.
I feel like I need to do something... like I should get her a card or some flowers or something.
Any thoughts?
Also, FIL called last night to see how things were going. W has yelled at me for telling MIL things that W neglected to say, so I told him I couldn't talk about it.. that he'd have to talk to her. He did say that I needed to fight for her and that was his only advice to me. I told him I was and will.
Went to speak with my L today. As I was pulling out of the driveway, I noticed the mail had come. In the mail was the temporary proposal from W's L. We had talked about it last night (they just drew it up yesterday) and she said it was basically what we had talked about.. I don't even need to see my L and just agree and sign.
Well... this is going to get ugly, because my L says that they are asking for things "temporarily" that no judge would allow.
I know when she finds out that we are contesting the conditions she will be hopping mad. That may be the coffin nail, but I can't let her deprive the D's while they are here as well.
Blame it on your lawyer. Whatever you do, do not say that I don't agree with x,y, or z - say that your lawyer thinks x, y, or z and that he/she says it is customary in these situations that... You should also prepare her for that before she hears it from her or your lawyer.
Yeah... that's what I'm afraid of. Oh well... I will blame it on my lawyer!!
This is actually becoming comical. I have an office in the basement. She came home and I went upstairs to get some water and ask her how her day was etc. She was on the phone and when she got off she was telling me about an appt tomorrow and logistics etc. I then asked how her day was to which she responded: "Why are you talking to me.. .I'm mad as heck at you"
I replied "OK.. .I will leave you alone" She replied "Good"
As I was heading downstairs, she started to ask a question that she forgot.. then asked how my day was.. I said it was good and she had this crap eating grin on her face like she wanted to laugh.
Well... we talked for a few more minutes... good conversation, asked about her day and some particular problem children at school. She seemed to enjoy telling me about one of the kids and how she's trying to get him under control.
We then talked about our D's picture day tomorrow.
Turns out the grabbing of the rings was so she could put them up in her jewelry box.
She's going to get adjusted and headed off to school which doesn't start for 2 hours.
She texted me asking me to give the girls a hug and kiss and tell them she loved them. I responded OK and reminded her that D was supposed to bring in snacks for her class and asked if she had any ideas. She called later to tell me she'd be running late from class but she could stop and pick something up. We talked about the girls etc and she said again how she didn't plan on being too late.. "Not that you need to know". I took it in stride and told her to be careful coming home to which she responded "Whatever.. OK" She called me on the way home and I had gone upstairs to read. It was a much more pleasant conversation, but I asked her if she wanted me to come down when she got home. She said she had to make lunches and then go to bed. I told her I made lunches (something I never do.. 180). She was shocked and asked why I did that. I told her I realized that I never made lunches and I knew she'd be home late.
This is where she responded with: "I'm not in the mood to.... I don't know where our relationship is going to end. I don't have much hope for it right now.. I'm so angry with you and probably will be for a while."
I told her I understood and let it go. I feel like she's going to use this as an excuse to distance from me.
At this point, I'm tired of the game. I just need to let her go for a while and focus on me and the girls.
This is where I get into trouble. I don't want to ignore her, but I want to GAL and detach.
Nugget, Looks like you've taken a couple days off from posting here, just like me. I guess answers just aren't there for us right now. For a while I posted a few times daily trying to find wisdom, answers, questions etc.
I saw my W this morning for a few minutes, when she was getting in her car I told her she looked really nice, and she gave me a really warm, flirty smile, it made me feel really good, I think I just caught her off guard?
My son will now be with my W for the next week, except for my sons football game tomorrow, I am the head coach and my W is the team mom. I would love to ask her out or have a family night, but I am pretty sure I'll be rejected. She had told me before she left that if anything changes for her she will let me know, so I guess I'll play the waiting game.
I must admit that I am very lonely without her. I am keeping busy with being a good father, domestic chores, work, working out, sports and coaching, yet in the evenings during the week, sitting watching TV alone, I find myself alone, feeling sorry for myself.
Hope things are going good for you, drop a line, thanks.
"We're here for a good time, not a long time" ________________________________________
M:48 W: 43 S;20, S;10 Married: 14 Years / Together 17 Years Bomb Dropped: 2/4/07 Separated: 6/29/07 D to be filed by my W soon.
Jar, sounds like she is going to milk out her anger for all it is worth. It seems as if she does not actually want to be angry with you, but is doing so just to get at you. Don't let her act of anger affect you or get you done. GAL and act as if.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
GG, yep patience is what we all need to have, but is one thing that us guys all struggle with.
As for me. I am here lurking, but, I do not have much to share for others here. I am in limbo right now. Feeling very frustrated as of late and I am caught between my feelings of where I want to go from here. It's hard for me to give good solid insight to others when I am in a cloud of confusion.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
GoodGuy... Keep your hopes up. I can't relate (yet), but I can understand. It's almost like torture!! I was in the Marines for 6 years, and I would much rather spend a year in Boot Camp at Parris Island than go through this!!
Nugget.. I agree. While she says she's angry, she says she will be civil. I think it's her way of saying "I'll be nice, but don't expect anything."
I'm working on the "as-if"
She asked this morning if I'd gotten the proposal from her L. I said I did and that my L was going to verify the numbers. She was very upset by this.. I think she knows that her L tried to screw me and they thought I would just sign the papers without protecting myself. I told her I thought things looked fair (BS!!) but my L wanted to double check everything. She started ranting about what are you wanting to change etc, etc. I just diffused and said my L is checking it out.
It wasn't a good way to end our meet, but there wasn't much I could do.
I texted her afterward to let her know I took care of some horse related stuff she had asked and got no response.
OK... so W came home after work and wanted to work out. I have an office in the basement, so I was in the basement while she was working out. Backup a little to a conversation prior that we had. Her M got her a washer and dryer today (thanks MIL) and so I need to give her the money we agreed to. I told her it would have to be on my next paycheck. Now... she's taking the couch and loveseat with her, and she was even having MIL steamclean them for her, but today she mentions that she wants to check out a local store that has some sales going on. I kept my cool, but I mentioned that I wouldn't be able to cover all of her horse board since I just bought the girls a new bedroom set and paid for some other stuff (ferrier for the horses, her water bill, her security deposit) and here she is going to blow money on NEW couches???
I let it roll, but it will be a conversation that needs to be had. While she was talking about this (she wants me to go with her to pick something out) she mentions again how she's mad as heck but wants to be civil.
She works out and we talk.. actually, I asked how her day was and she talked the whole time and I listened. It was like nothing was going on.. she seemed happy.. laughed etc.
So strange!!
Oh yeah... she did text me today out of the blue to thank me for the lunch I made her.. she said it was good.
LOL. She's talking to you huh? See, she is not as mad as she wants you to think she is.
I would say let her do her thing with the couches. You do not want to be separated, so why support her idea of it by helping her to choose furniture. Maybe you can accompany her, but let her shop. I went with my wife to look at apartments for her to show a little support, but, I refused to go in and look at the actual units. I drove her around for better part of a day, but I politely waited in the lobby or outside with our S. I did not give her my opinion nor did I fight the fact that she was looking. I just listened and validated what she was saying. Went rather well overall. Just a thought.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
This evening has been great.. we've been talking, flirting etc. She is going out tonight and I noticed her doing her "primping" which some things she never does.
I thought it was a little odd that she was in such a good mood, so I had to snoop at her cell.
OM IS AN F'N LIAR!!!!
They are seeing each other tonight and she's as happy as a pig in crap.
She's still here getting ready and I'm trying to avoid her.
I want to basically hand her my ring and tell her to have a good evening with OM.
I feel for you b/c I know exactly how this feels..it cuts right through you, gosh I know the hurt!! My H use to rub it in my face until I insisted he move out for I couldnt take his cake eating anymore.
I have not read your thread but I can see your being strong for your girls. That alone says alot about you. I will read up on you to be able to get a better handle on your stich.
It does seem like your W is moving on the jet train to D so fast after the bomb.
