Nomopo's Sitch - Patience, Patience, Patience

[Puddle]

Oh my god, Nomopo, your description of the conversation with your son had me in tears. Good for you for doing the hard, right thing: between spouse (or self) and kids, kids win every time.

Thanks for posting your journal entries. I'll write more tomorrow; bedtime now.

P.S. Is everyone in Texas?

[bar]

Hi Nomopo!

I can understand how you feel about bending over backwards/enabling a comfortable situation for your W. I feel I'm doing the same; H has no interest in saving the M. Last night he asked me to tell him to leave. He just doesn't get it.

Unlike me, you have young children to consider.

They say patience runs out; I'll still carry on being patient after H leaves.

Puddle - I'm really jealous you're all in Texas. Wish I was there too.

Nomopo - if you need an English Nanny, I'm thinking I'll be available soon,

Hugs, bar

[Strongerthanthis]

Hi Nomo,

I glance in W's room. She has done a major cleaning out of it. I knew this, but it caught me by surprise. It was so empty and sad/depressing. I noticed she took down some old pictures of us (and a lot not of us, BTW), and that bummed me out. Made me feel like she was moving on.

Early on in our S my W took down all the pictures of us together and put up pictures of her brother and sister it does hurt. I did n't say anyting but a few weeks later said I would like to put pictures of me and the children in the children's rooms. My take on the pictures is for my W it is a practical step to endorse her decision to seperate and feel she is moving on but they have to do this to prove to themselves that the're decision is right, no matter how confused they are inside.

As I said, I think W is denying some of the effects/damage.

Yes, They must have tremendous guilt in breaking up the family that anything that shows how destructive a marriage breakup is to children is something they will deny. This happened to me on Monday, before they went on holiday my D8 started to get upset and said she did n't want to go to France without me, would n't enjoy it and basically crying. I found this extremely hard but kept reassuring her that she would have a great time etc. W said she was just playing up! WTF! and she then said if you keep acting like this Daddy won't see you again before you go away next time. I responded No I would always see her before any trip, a tense look between me and W but when it comes to the children you are absolutely right not to worry about pissing of the W.

I kind of feel like I have to be done working on saving my M because she isn't and I am tired of taking it/enabling it. Otherwise, I make it so comfortable and pleasant it could last for years.

I think something to think about, is do you feel you are at the right place either way the M goes? This could be a good time to 'try something different' My personal opinion is to become their best friend they see how much they like you, then pull back gently and see if they are drawn back again a fine line which I'm not there with yet. A bit of the castle / picnic as I understand it they like you and you are having such a good life without them they want to become part of that.

Anyway just my thoughts, having been in very similar situations hope you can get something out of it, even if it's your not alone with all this cr@p!

charlie

[stillme]

{{{Nomo}}} & {{{Nomo's S}}}. I'm sorry. Poor little bugger. I hear the same type things from D6 and it rips out your heart. O/c I think you handled it very well, and W's 'reaction' was, o/c, expected. Keeping the communication (or expression of feelings) is key, tho (my C tells me) to getting the kids' "thru" this as well as they can -- That, and the parents being "okay" (not overly emotional, or acting ugly or denying either their own feelings or the children's) thru it all. It's not just enough to "just love your kids", but to really HEAR them & ALLOW THEM [to talk, vent, cry or express ANY emotion or feeling or thought about it] as they want w/o denying either their thoughts/emotions or denying them the right to have them. Hmm, validation anyone? You, and W (to a degree), are doing just that. You're a great dad.

As for the other journaling. . .some quick notes b/f kids get here this morn:

Good on you for identifying your feelings & expressing them (non-threatening o/c) and then apologizing to W for the tenseness over her changed b'room. Rather than the room as a whole, I think you were much more concerned about the taking-down of the photos of you/W in early yrs, right? I really think this has more to do w/HER than w/you, tho. Not only do those early-yrs photos carry memories (which, to her, are not all that good on so many levels [right] now) but she may be considering how SHE has changed from then, and maybe not liking the changes. And, o/c, the specifics of the changes would be purely speculation but it doesn't matter. She's not the same "girl" as those photos, and that bothers her so much she would rather than have a reminder on her wall. (Of course it could also mean that she just didn't like her hair etc. in the photos & has ben waiting all these yrs to have a reason to take the photos off the wall!) But VG for your W in being able to talk it out w/you & all the chuckling (I'm jealous)!

And how many "non-important" phone calls DID W make to you? Hmmm.

Very good on keeping the interaction w/W casual & friendly & upbeat. Wonderful she felt [whatever] & you joined them for dinner! GREAT about re-thinking the bringing-of-coffee-etc to W stuff so much. I think it will mean much more if it (and the phone calls, etc. - which is what I think you were getting at in your last para?) are not a so-frequent thing. Tho I do know you were concerned w/W's LL & being there for her like that. Moderation I think is a good thing now.

Very good on the comedy CD's (Six - really!?). I caught part of an old Eddie Murphy standup on tv recently (forget what the tour was called - the one - well, one of the the ones - where he was in a [blue] leather suit, lol). O/c it was so bad every other word (literally) was bleeped & the humor so off-color or "potty-mouth" (again, literally) but the gist of the 'jokes' were still there. OMG he was awful! Maybe if I'd been in a diff frame of mind I would have enjoyed it. (yeah, maybe not tho.) But the point is: Humor is a good thing! Using the CD's to listen to (instead of, as we suggested to Donna, trying to find something - anything - on the radio that won't cause a neg. reaction in us!) is key to not only our PMA but our attitude about everything.

Many vent/thinking out loud coming: I'm not sure I care how she reacts. Part of me is frustrated with what she is doing in prolonging this S without any indication of what she is thinking or how long this will last or whether she might ever consider working on our M. (She hasn't since Jan. 22nd!) Although I know I made mistakes (and she did too), at least I've acknowledged my mistakes and apologized and I have addressed them and I am still making changes. She, on the other hand, is doing nothing. Unless and until she wakes up and decides she isn't ready to just throw this M/R away, and harm our kids in the process, I kind of feel like I have to be done working on saving my M because she isn't and I am tired of taking it/enabling it. Otherwise, I make it so comfortable and pleasant it could last for years. And if she doesn't wake up, part of me says it's her loss (and my kids, sadly). We'll see. Still considering.

You're at a good point - Really.

Lots of good tuff going on, as usual, N. (And you do SO not need MY "in-depth" analysis of your sitch [is that what you called it?] b/c you are doing so very well all by your own self! But I'm here for you if you like.

Well, kids are now 45 min late to get here. Wonder what's up. Got lots of stuff to do today, and promised S he could play w/his bff (who has been so busy this summer they've only gotten together maybe 3 times).

TTFN
j

[new_attitude]

Then I head in to see S7. He seems happy and calm. I kneel down by him and ask how he is doing. He says fine, but then the emotions start to flow. Lots of anger, tears, etc. Lots of stuff said over about 45 minutes. I cannot remember it all, but here are some highlights. He said: Get away from me. I hate you. You are poo poo. He closed his ears and wouldn't listen. He didn't want me to touch him or be near him, and he pushed me away. It was pretty rough. He was yelling at me (W too, really, but I was there trying to comfort him, and trying to deal with it while W handled D4, so I took the brunt of his anger). S7 said he just wants normal parents, two parents, who live together. He slammed his doors, and kicked me out of his room. He said no more hugs and kisses until we get back together. He said he hates me/us, and we're not his parents, and he wants knew parents for Christmas/Hanukah. He at one point said he wasn't going to Disney if we couldn't all go. And he begged us to work it out. When I explained that we were trying to figure things out, to figure out what was best, he said this is not best for him or D4. Ok, it was awful.

((((Nomo)))) Heartbreaking. I think you are handling this well by taking the lead on talking to the CP. Let us know how that goes.

[Nomopo]

CVA - under the work gun today and the next few as I try to get out of town Saturday with the kids.

Hi Kat. Thanks for the suport. Yeah, patience; I know. I am doing some serious noodling these days, but I will take my time to figure out what this new place I think I am at is all about. It's been four months of pretty good DBing, so maybe this new phase is what happens with time. My guess - more detaching is occuring. You can't rush it though. To truly, and more importantly effectively, detach, you really have to be ok with/prepared for the consequences. I'm getting stronger in that regard every day.

Hi Puddle - welcome to my life! And thanks for stopping by. If your PS question is about my family, yes, we're all in Texas. Or are you telling me you're here too.

Hello bar! Good thoughts, thanks. I may take you up on that nanny thing.

Bar meet Charlie; Charlie, this is bar. You two have something in common.

Charlie (aka strongerthanthis) - hope you had a good time with your buds last night. Good feedback on the pics and the kids. Thanks. Also,

I think something to think about, is do you feel you are at the right place either way the M goes? This could be a good time to 'try something different' My personal opinion is to become their best friend they see how much they like you, then pull back gently and see if they are drawn back again a fine line which I'm not there with yet. A bit of the castle / picnic as I understand it they like you and you are having such a good life without them they want to become part of that.

Good stuff Charlie. Thanks again. I think what may be happening to me is that I really am getting to the spot where I feel I am at the right place either way the M goes. That takes time, but I believe I may have taken a pretty big step forward. Am I all the way there yet, not sure and probably not, but I am doing some meditating on it now.

Hi Still my long-time, dear DB friend and spiritual guide! I was thinking the other day how far I have come since first posting about three months ago! Whew! You are a big part of why I have made so much progress. Do you recognize me still???

the parents being "okay" (not [. . .] denying either their own feelings or the children's) thru it all. It's not just enough to "just love your kids", but to really HEAR them & ALLOW THEM [to talk, vent, cry or express ANY emotion or feeling or thought about it] as they want w/o denying either their thoughts/emotions or denying them the right to have them.

Can you explain this to my W please? Hopefully, CP will.

But VG for your W in being able to talk it out w/you & all the chuckling (I'm jealous)!

Yeah, it was good and thanks for the thoughts on the meaning of the pic removal.

And how many "non-important" phone calls DID W make to you? Hmmm.

A few, I guess.

I think it will mean much more if it (and the phone calls, etc. - which is what I think you were getting at in your last para?) are not a so-frequent thing. Tho I do know you were concerned w/W's LL & being there for her like that. Moderation I think is a good thing now.

I agree and it would mean even more if she initiated contact, doing things, etc. For me, I need to hold off the LL experiment some. I think right now, less is so much more.

Many vent/thinking out loud coming:

Ooops. That was supposed to be mini-vent.

[quote=stillme]And you do SO not need MY "in-depth" analysis of your sitch [is that what you called it?] b/c you are doing so very well all by your own self! But I'm here for you if you like.

I do need it, and I do like it. And especially as I mull over these recent changes I am feeling I will want to bounce ideas off you and others. So stick around, please. I miss you.

Hi T!

[quote=new_attitude]I think you are handling this well by taking the lead on talking to the CP. Let us know how that goes.

You bet! Will do.

Later all,
Nomo

[bar]

Thanks for introducing me to Charlie. There's 200 miles between us. Thank God for the net. I've met so many great people and this site is my lifeline.

bar xxx

[Puddle]

Sorry, bar, I should have said "Is everyone *else* in Texas?"

How are you doing today, Nomopo?

[bar]

No matter. As long as you're all here on these threads providing unconditional support. I'm going to get my map of the US out as my geography's a little shaky.

bar xxx

[Strongerthanthis]

Hi Bar,

Good to meet you, I will check out your sitch and hope if I can help a fellow Brit!

Sorry Nomo for the hijack. I'll be off now!

Charlie