My heart has been completely torn apart

[I_Surrender]

Mending fences day yesterday. W emailed me that she wanted me to talk to DD about their relationship (DD not on speaking terms with W)
So I did that.
I had a good chat with DD, based a little on forgiveness, but also on the fact that for each of them the mother daughter relationship was something that was important for this time forward. I also said that ultimately it was up to each of them to foster that relationship.

W went to counseling. I think she was very happy that I talked to DD about their R. I also talked a little about some of my other feelings, why I was distant over the weekend etc. A good chat.

I talked a little about my GAL plan, in that I felt what happened devalued me, so my new fitness regimen was to aide me in beginning to feel good about myself. I believe she felt it was an effort to look good for other women.

Good communication progress, still feel 70/30, but taking whatever time we need.

[I_Surrender]

Wow I wish I had a good friend to hug and cry to this morning.

Last night W and I had a R talk. I wanted to hear a little more from her, since I was the more talkative one the night before.
That we did. W talked about her counselor who was telling her that she had to define her boundaries and stick to them. (W had spent an extra 30 - 45 minutes at C on Monday) I asked for an example. She used a workplace analogy that didn't make sense. Then W said it would be tough for me to hear but OM was having "a difficult time." She went on to say that the R with OM was much more than just a fling.

I told her that I appreciated the honesty. Said it was difficult to hear, but if we were to move forward there would have to be a basis of trust and honesty.

So I digested what she said. OM having a difficult time and W not being able to define boundaries = her still talking to OM (End to PA/EA one of my prerequisites for moving forward.)
More than just a fling = EA/PA going on for much longer than I had originally thought.
Those are both huge blows.

It has me searching my feelings. I could not sleep again last night. I am very glad I have counseling this afternoon. Today I find myself revisiting, W's attitudes and behaviours over the past few years to try and make sense, and put a timeline to this.

Once again today I find myself feeling devalued as a person. I am going to force myself to move forward with the GAL program, and continue to do good things for myself.

I thought one of the things I would do, is try and buy a CD today, if I can find one I like.

[I_Surrender]

So I bought a CD yesterday, counseling went okay. She sort of asked me, if I had set a time limit for this process, ie. when I would move on? So I am more considerate of that right now.

I am going to have some tough (serious) R talks with W over the next bit. Hopefully we can make our way through them constructively.

I think that I'll probably post to this thread a little less now unless I feel the need to journal something.

I appreciate the support, feedback and reading your posts. The help to me has been immeasurable. I wish you all the very best of luck.

[I_Surrender]

Just a quick update. Things are going okay. My fitness regimen is turning out to be a marathon, which is analogous to what rebuilding life and relationships will likely be.
I find I am highly sensitive right now. I enjoy the cuddles and kisses. The affection is initiated by me. I forced W to come out for fathers day dinner, which older two children bought for me/us. She did not want to come. I was happy to see W and DD chatting friendliesh. Hopefully I have helped break some of that ice. Still have to thank DD for her effort there (did so with W.)
W has made some baby steps dealing with her anger frustration issues.
I feel the same with regard to the M.
I hope that by keeping things positive, and moving in a positive direction, it will be better no matter what happens.
If I am to share my life I really really want it to be with someone who is at least somewhat giving.
I wonder if something is forcing me to wait. I suppose I am still being patient. I need to keep from being distracted by the sich. It is very tough some days.
I suppose I was always so proud, in a slightly arrogant sort of way, of how long we were together. That I (we) had the formula for a successful marriage, when others did not. I was perfect, or course anyway having this all fall away into the abyss of shattered dreams is what I am thinking about today. Somewhere, like all of you, we find the strength to go forward.

That will be my task for this week, to move forward with inspiration. Wish me luck!

[I_Surrender]

Hopefully these yarns are helpful to those who read them. They are helpful to me, to journalize.
Yesterday went okay, pretty good for most of the day. We went for a walk after dinner and talked. I wanted to find out how she was doing, feeling within our relationship. I did not get a lot of direct feedback, and did not pry into how her counseling was going. The non-communication has given me the impression that there are some difficult subjects at her C sessions to work through. I am okay with this.

W asked me how I was feeling about our R. I did my best political dance around the subject for a bit. Not because I did not want to tell her, rather I felt that I would be burdening her with more issues (my wishes for the relationship) which she was not ready for.
Anyway she persisted, and I finally brought up the sex issue. I told her that for much of our marriage ML was not frequent enough for me. I did not want to feel like I was burdening her with something overwhelming so we talked quite a bit about this. It was enlightening to me. I am just not sure if she is interested, capable or willing to work on changing this aspect of our M.
In conclusion I said, not to feel burdened by this, rather look at it as a necessity that we have a R talk every day, even if it is only for five minutes. I respectfully suggested that it is not just me who needs to learn to communicate, but there is effort required on both of our parts.

So for me, I am okay with this talk. There seems to be an underpinning or reluctance on W part, that she too has to work hard on our M. She is not phoning from home to OM, and is coming home promptly after work. I get the feeling that she is still talking to OM via email or other means at work (they work at same large employer - not the same department.) The reason I think I sense this, is a change in her mannerisms some days and I feel it necessary to pay close attention to my feelings. I sense her commitment to counseling waning at this time. It is a tough go, I know this. I am worried for her, that if she gives up on counseling this go around, it will be three different counselors.

For myself, I made a large small step for myself on the GAL front. I tried to think of things that motivate me into action (instead of sulking, withdrawing, procrastinating or feeling hurt) and I documented them. When I am having a less than motivational moment, I hope to be able to open the document or look at the words and find inspiration.


I'll share one;
An old class photograph of my Grandpa and his two brothers (Ireland circa early 1900's) comes to mind. For those people who don't recognize the faces in the photo, the way that you can distinguish the three brothers, is the fact that they are the only children who do not have any shoes on their feet.
So in the age when we place so much value on new cars, dvd players, cell phones, plasma tvs, my grandpa's wish at that time, would have been to have a decent pair of shoes, perhaps.

[I_Surrender]

W mentioned older son saw her truck parked outside of C. He asked her what she was doing there. W got defensive, didn't tell him the real reason she was parked there. I told her, that he knows what's going on, why weren't you just honest?

Yesterday I got the sense that W was talking to OM at work. I don't know why, maybe because when I left a message for her at work, that she did not call me back. Not even when she arrived home before me.

Having an R talk with W is not going well, at least I don't think so. I tried again last night W did not seem into it. I think things seem relatively stable, so a good time to talk, one would think. That adds to the feeling of mine that she is talking to OM.

This is a big no-no for me, as it was/is of course a precondition to me not getting an immediate D. Alas I actually feel sorry for her.

GAL front is going pretty well. I am feeling positive about myself. I am thinking about what it would be like on my own.
I am trying to play out all the facets in my mind. I know I would miss the companionship (duh) but I think to myself, what kind of companionship was that, really? Over the past three years it was a deceptive one, wasn't it?

I made a postives/negatives list about myself, as I see it, and tried to incorporate some of the things W commented on. Through counseling, I am determined to try and work on these, especially my shyness, and other inherited personality traits which I don't like.

[I_Surrender]

Okay here goes, and I am so sorry to be setting a bad example for all those of you who are DB'ing and trying so hard to save your marriages.

Last night W and I walked, we had a good long R discussion. Essentially what came from it, is she does not know what she wants. She is at least conversationally, or via email, or someway emotionally supporting OM.

So I stated confidently and rightfully (for me) that a precondition of us rebuilding our marriage, was that she cut all ties with OM. Secondly that she decides to work towards rebuilding our relationship, or not as the case may be. W backpedaled a little trying to say that yes she did break off ties 100% but could tell he was hurting by looking at him

It would be a very long yarn, so I won't go into the whole conversation. Ultimately I said that I felt I caved and gave in on my principals, when she had the last EA 3 years ago. This time I was carefully going to be respectful of my boundaries and principals of what I felt a marriage should be, and what was necessary to rebuild our R.

I thought and thought last night. It really has been 3 years I do not want to repeat. W does not have the wherewithal to make this work.

So this evening I am going to take W up to the place where we first ML as teens 31 years ago. It's a very beautiful place, and I am a hopeless romantic. I think it will be the perfect place to close this chapter in our lives, and hopefully move forward as friends. I am going to tell W that I want to work towards a formal separation then a divorce.

I do not know where all the cards will fall, but I have to do this for myself. I feel that I am ready, ready to be on my own with the kids. I hope that we will be able to work on a separation agreement together without bitterness.

Once again I am so sorry to be doing this while many of you work so hard to save your marriages. I just have to do what's right for me. Sorry

[Hope_11]

I_Surrender,

I completely understand where you are. My H will not break ties with OW, so just like you I'm done. I feel like I did everything that I could to save my marriage. I tried to hold and help my H, but he won't even start to help himself and learn from this. We can't even see if we still have a M that is worth working on while he is involved with OW.

All of us on here have taken time to find out who we are and what we want, while a lot of our spouses have taken their time to run to someone else, live in denial, and treat anyone that comes in there way horrible. We are better people and saying that you are moving on doesn't make you any less of a person. Hang your head high. You gave it your all.

[I_Surrender]

Thanks H11, maybe that's what makes us different, we are looking at ourselves and what changes are necessary for us to try and recover our R and perhaps save our M's. It takes to. It's hard for people like us to continue to try and improve ourselves while our other half is not there.
We have to keep insisting we are better people for it.

I feel that I am ready to be alone now. Once I am alone, that may change, who knows.

It's hard though

I told W last night that wanted a separation. I also told her I am in no rush, we can take the time to make everything right to do so, financially and otherwise. (her work may be going on strike) and we wold wait until she is back to work etc.

I also indicated that in my mind this was not a trial separation, to see how I feel or she feels. This was a separation leading to D, in my mind.

Of course she was upset. We talked later that night. It was productive for me. She wondered why I suddenly changed? It's just that my feelings have not changed. My values have not changed. While I have been doing GAL activities, I realize more and more I must hold true to my values and myself, even if that means I am to be alone.

A lot of the jist of her yarn was how I wasn't there for her all through the marriage, she did all the work with the kids etc. I never expressed my love, never communicated. So I listened.

I didn't want to counterpunch every point she made. Comunication is a 2 way street, and so is the relationship. The R was much more of a 50/50 one. She is not in a place to appreciate me for who I am.
It's all about her right now, how I have somehow done her wrong, and this is why this has happened. That's the issue. She is not looking in the mirror right now, or ever has.
I am willing to improve and change, to try my best.
She is willing to point out my flaws, but reluctant to look truthfully at herself and take any steps. It's all abour me, my imperfections.

Despite what she says. I look in the mirror and see a good person. I see some flaws. I also have the ability and willingness to work on them. I am going to work on my shyness, my ability to communicate my feelings.

I am capable of great love, and have what I feel are an admirable set of values, which I hold myself to. My compassion conscientiousness and caring are real strengths.

Anyway wish me luck. It is my hope that we all continue to learn to be better people.

[I_Surrender]

So just a quick bit of news. W had counseling monday. Told her counselor about my request for a S and D. Told me what she told her, that it was like I slapped her in the face and shook her, when I told her I wanted a D.

In a nutshell she stated that she was willing to do whatever it will take to save our marriage.

Also that she is ready and will to goto couples counseling, if I do even if it leads to separation.

So that is good, yes, and I will do couples counseling, but it does not make me change my feelings.

I told W I need to do individual counseling also, as I have a lot of issues which I want to work through.

So I am thinking this is positive, but I am not letting the horses out of the corral.

I'll keep you all up to date as things progress