Unfortunately CJ the only way you are going to understand what's going through his head is by...asking. Ya know, in my sitch (which is almost identical to Heywyre's) I would get the constant excuse of...."I'm just really tired", or as you put it "I'm too tired". That gets really old doesn't it? Well, I finally just stopped accepting that answer from him by saying "then we are going to need to find a way to be together when you AREN'T so tired, like making time for us earlier in the day." Then his excuse would be "but we're just both so busy", to which I'd reply, "that's called LIFE honey, we have to find a way to work time for US into our life because our life won't become less hectic anytime soon."
It's a real pain to have to challenge someone's excuse when they throw one at you. I know it feels like you are the only one doing the R work in your M, and you very well may be....but if neither of you do it you know where you'll end up right? Challenge him, do something out of your normal behavior....like, set your alarm and wake up early and have your way. He can't be too tired then now can he?
Can you tell me what things are going on in his life outside of your home life?
the only way you are going to understand what's going through his head is by...asking
Asking him is very hard. He is very easily offended. He was offended last night when I asked him about not washing each other in the shower. If I ask him if he is avoiding arousal, that will offend him.
I could probably get him to get up and take a shower with me in the morning. I have done that before and he seemed okay with it. I just have to coax him a bit to get out of bed. I am usually awake before everyone else. So ML while the kids are still asleep is good.
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Can you tell me what things are going on in his life outside of your home life?
Asking him is very hard. He is very easily offended. He was offended last night when I asked him about not washing each other in the shower. If I ask him if he is avoiding arousal, that will offend him.
That's HIS problem, stop protecting him from being offended. What you are doing by trying not to offend him is actually protecting him from his own emotions, that allows him not to deal with them....that's a bad thing sweetie. It's a way of also guaranteeing he won't EVER have to answer your questions...make sense? If you are asking an honest question, don't worry about his reaction...ask it. You might want to avoid asking questions right in the moment though (not saying you did that), that will make him instantly go on the defensive.
May I ask what is important about showering together? Is there anything important about it? Seems like you are a bit focused on that...so that's why I ask. What I was actually suggesting is that you wake him up in a nice way, ie blowjob or something sexual like that...not ask him to join you in the shower.
When I asked what's going on with him outside of your marriage I mean ANYTHING. Work, family, friends, sports, children, whatever.
Showering isn't that important. It is just what was on my mind last night since he got in the shower with me at exactly the same time I did and there was still no intimate touching. It is the intimate touching outside of sex that is important to me.
I don't like to offend h because he gets angry. I don't like being snarled at. D has been doing it a lot in the last week. I blew up at her and called her a bitch this afternoon. But I apologized to her a little later. I think I fear anger because my dad was so violent. If we made him mad, he got the belt out or banged our heads together. My first H used to punch things when he got mad. I always worried when it would be me that got punched. My current H isn't violent. He just yells and snarls. Then he sulks.
There have been many times that I have gotten up to use the toilet in the morning then gone back to bed. He knows I have something on my mind and obliges me. I guess I thought getting up to take a shower with me would be something a little bit different. Crawling back into bed and being sexual immediately, instead of waiting for him to wake up a little more, would be different, too. I would really like to try some of Lou Paget's techniques. I've tried a little bit before, but wasn't sure what he thought of it. He is so quiet during sex.
My h likes to relax at home. He is a salesperson and is on the phone talking to people all day. He doesn't care much about socializing after work. So he doesn't have any friends that he hangs out with. We do attend company gatherings once or twice a year, though. He doesn't like contact-sports much. He likes golf, but hasn't done that since we were married--even though I've said that I would like to learn. The whole family takes a ski vacation during spring break. This year, we took S's GF. We used to go camping several times a year before the kids outgrew it.
I thought seriously about learning to golf, but then got a job instead. Maybe I'll still make the time for it this summer.
H's mom lives near us in a care center. She has Alzheimer's. He brings her over to visit for a few hours every Sunday unless we have too much going on. He used to bring her over for most of the day both weekend days. But she's gotten too difficult to work around. He doesn't enjoy visiting with her anymore because she doesn't make sense most of the time. When she does make sense, she is usually complaining about something.
The rest of both sides of our families live half way across the country.
Ok I know this is a pain, but this is something for YOU to work on:
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I don't like to offend h because he gets angry. I don't like being snarled at. D has been doing it a lot in the last week. I blew up at her and called her a bitch this afternoon. But I apologized to her a little later. I think I fear anger because my dad was so violent. If we made him mad, he got the belt out or banged our heads together. My first H used to punch things when he got mad. I always worried when it would be me that got punched. My current H isn't violent. He just yells and snarls. Then he sulks.
You will need to get over your fear of ticking off or offending your H. Because seriously, it's not helpful to your marriage if you have to tip-toe around issues. Believe me I understand what this is like too. I grew up with a father who has an explosive temper, I still have a pavlovian response to people screaming (even if it's something as simple as someone screaming at a bad call during a football game). My 1st H was abusive, mentally/physically too...so if I ticked him off there was no telling which way it would go.
I've learned though in this relationship that I had to get things out of my system and that my H was responsible for his reactions and outbursts, not me. If he responded irrationally I've learned to not tolerate it...you can too, it's something that will lead the two of you to a better place in your marriage. It leads to better communication between the two of you too. If he gets offended tell him "I don't see why what I just said offended you, can you explain to me why it does?" Then if he does...listen, closely. If he can't give you an explanation then tell him something like "well, if you're offended that's your problem....it was an honest question. If I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked it." But do these things calmly...don't rise to the bait he throws out there if he gets ticked off or offended....stay calm and collected (not always easy).
Ok...as for the shower thing. Ok so you were using it as an example of sorts, but how about just starting smaller. If you set your alarm for the morning to wake up before him...you've already got a captive audience in bed so how about getting him worked up....and THEN going to take your shower. If he follows you great, if he doesn't then resume when you get out.
Okay, I'll talk to him. Not sure if it will be tonight, though. S's girlfriend and D's boyfriend have their graduation ceremony tonight (They attended the same school.) D is playing in the Band. I'm not sure what time we will be back home or what everyone is doing afterward. This might even be our first time to meet all of the parents. I have met GF's parents, but H hasn't. Neither H nor I have met BF's parents.
I won't have to set my alarm. I usually do wake up first. Getting him worked up then taking my shower sounds interesting. I'll try it this weekend. The only thing that probably won't work is resuming when I get out if he doesn't follow me. He usually gets up and goes downstairs for his coffee while I am in the shower. I could ask him to come back upstairs if S hasn't gotten up yet. If S is up, H will want to visit with him. They enjoy their time together since he has been living at his own apartment while attending college.
The only thing that probably won't work is resuming when I get out
It's ok if it doesn't work, don't go into this with expected results. If things don't resume, go about your business, then try it again the next morning....I bet he'll be thinking about it in his mind. Use it as a "tease", teasing doesn't mean you follow through right? But it gets the other person thinking along the right direction, you might find HE initiates as a result, then again he may not....it's something to try.
It has been several months since I posted and things haven't changed much. My DB coach told me that I should stop the R talks and act in a positive way. I have been doing that and will continue to. But what should I do if I slip up and notices that something is bothering me? What should I say if he asks?
I am also wondering what I should do about sex. Should I initiate if he doesn't? Or should I leave it up to him? It's been three weeks already since we last ML. I was the one who initiated then.
A couple of weeks ago we had a huge argument. I mentioned to him how much I liked it when he had been doing such nice things. I tried to mention gently that it had been a while since he had done anything like that and I was starting to feel a little distance between us. H complained that sex always has to be on my terms--when I want it, how I want it, etc. He also said that he gets how important it is. I don't need to keep reminding him. He's not stupid. I don't know what "it" he was referring to. He complained about a lot of different things. "It" could have been any or all of them. He also promised to do nice things. And he sees no reason to repeat back to me what he thinks I said. So I have no idea what he thinks "nice things" are. What I consider "nice things" must not be the same as his because very little has changed. His idea of romance is still just sitting on the couch with me with his feet in my lap. There is still nothing sexual outside of sex. One minor change, though, is that he occasionally offers me a bowl of ice cream.
Another thing that was a big change for H has finally figured out how much I like surprises. He surprised me for my birthday last month. He usually asks me what I want or where I would like to go. This time, he made reservations at a Dinner Theatre for a Saturday night. I had to work 8-5 that day. Friday night, he asked me to hurry home because he had something planned. As soon as I got home, I went upstairs to take a bath and get ready to go out. He had left the tickets on the bathroom counter so that I would know where we were going so that I would know how to dress and how much time I had. I think he could have just told me without showing me the tickets, but it didn't really matter. We had a very nice time. I loved the surprise. What was disappointing was that we didn't ML that night or Sunday night. I got tired of waiting for him and initiated Monday even though he usually doesn't like to ML on a weeknight.
That is where I am so confused. He complains that sex has to be on my terms, but he doesn't initiate. What exactly does he mean anyway? If I ask him, it will turn into another huge fight. When I first started posting here, we had stopped fighting. We were able to talk to each other about our disagreements without yelling at each other. He was open to my suggestions for things that I found romantic and was having fun with it. Now he gets mad. If I were to remind him of some of the things he did that were so fun, it would spark another huge argument. That is why my coach suggested that I not talk about the R at all. She also suggested that I go out by myself sometimes. Go to a movie by myself if he doesn't want to, or go bowling, just do something without him. She wants me to avoid making him feel like he has to be the one to make me feel good. I realize she is asking me to GAL and I plan to do this ASAP.
One of H's co-workers is retiring and we are going to his party tomorrow night. I will try to go off by myself and visit with some of the people I kind of know. Or maybe I will get to know someone new. I usually stay close to him because I've always been very shy. I prefer to let him start the conversation. I do always like going to parties with H. He knows how much difficulty I have in large groups and is very considerate in that respect. He makes sure I am not left by myself with no one to talk to. There have been times that I was having a nice conversation with some ladies, so he left me while he went to talk to some guys. He came back to check on me every once in a while. It is very sweet of him.
I decided Friday that I wanted to go to a movie whether someone joined me or not. I picked one I though H would like if he wanted to go and another I would go to if he didn't feel like going out. I asked D if she would want to go to either movie. She said she would go to the second one. When H got home, I told him about the movies I had picked. He decided that he would like to see the second one. When it was time to go, we called up the stairs to D. She said that she was not able to go after all. Her BF needed her to drive him somewhere. H was a bit upset. It bothered me some because it seemed as though he only wanted to go the movie because she wanted to go. Nothing more was said about that and we did have a nice time. H enjoyed the movie. I wasn't crazy about it, but enjoyed being out and I enjoyed the fact that he came with me and liked my choice of movie.
On Saturday, I did try to go off on my own a little during the party we were at. It was difficult because we were a small group in a small area. There were only about 15 of us. I did have a nice conversation with one lady while H was visiting with other people, though. It was good to have my own conversation. H joined in later. That made it more difficult for me. I have a hard time with more than two people in a conversation. When I think of something I'd like to say, I miss my chance to say it until it's too late. The topic has already moved on. Others jump in there with their comments before I do. I tend to wait until others have their say before I say what is on my mind. I need a long pause before I will speak my mind when there is more than me and one other.
I don't know if either of my attempts to do something on my own were appreciated by H or not. I think they were too small to have much of an impact.
We still haven't ML. I think H kind of wanted to last night. He put his arm around me when we went to bed. That usually leads to more. But he didn't do anything else after I snuggled up closer to him. I don't know if he was expecting me to do more or not. Should I have? Or should I wait for him to make more of an effort?
At dinner last night, I realized a bad habit that I have taught my daughter. Her bf helped her color her hair yesterday. At dinner, H noticed it and made a comment. D said, "Wow, I can't believe you noticed! I usually have to ask you if notice anything different." H said, "I'm sorry I said anything." Even though he tried to sound like he was joking, I know that he was hurt. I am ashamed that I have taught my daughter to make comments like that. I think I have been much better in the last few months, though. I spoke to d this morning. She now understands how much better it would have been to simply thank her dad and leave it at that.
