It was glorious, and I even told her at the time that if it ever "wore off" again to the extent that it had (I'm not talking about a mere "bad day"; we all have those . . I'm talking about the total rejection and lack of affection, if THAT ever returned, that I would NOT beg for her affection, and that the love life would basically be over.
It did, and it is.
JEEEEZ!!! You've got me riled up now. What kind of message is this???? What do you think she got out of that? Do you think she might have heard that Choc will give her the attention and adoration she needs only as long as she keeps of the “glorious” attention on him. As soon as that attention drops off, Choc does not care about her. That is conditional and controlling and there is no way she will see that as indication of your true love to her. You are saying one thing then doing another. Then you complain when she does the same thing back to you.
This is all a power struggle, each trying to get the other person to validate feelings and prove their love without each of you having to become vulnerable first. You test her, she test you. You both fail and go into P/A entitlement thinking. There can not be a positive outcome with this destructive cycle. You’ve seen that play out on the board too many times.
I was honestly trying to soul-search my true feelings last night, to find out what it was that was bothering me so much (because, to be honest, I WASN'T all that "worried" -- she was with a group I know, I knew where they were, it was nearby, she had a COP with her for crissakes, and she wasn't driving).
I think I just felt like a sap. And I CANNOT STAND feeling like a sap.
Yep. You see why I said your emotional reaction did not square with your “concern for her safety?” So how are you going to get past this, not just with her but any other woman for that matter? This is NOT about a woman. This is about you. This is about Choc standing up for himself, deciding what Choc wants, then setting out to achieve that want and protecting it from others once you do get it.
You might start by asking yourself why it is you feel so powerless and why you don’t act to empower yourself? Who made you feel powerless?
What do I want? Re-read my thread, from the beginning. All I wanted was advice on what to say to my wife about what happened last nite, and later on I expanded that to include some general tone that I'm searching for that's neither needy/grabby/beotchy nor trying to be charming.
Everything else I said was in response to a direct question from another poster, so as not to be CeMarish-rude.
As for your characterizations of her male friends at the gym, I think you're way out of line. Why do you assume that they are neither confident, smart nor having a good education?
Choc I don't understand #4? But I guess I'd have to say that You don’t understand #4?
#4, that is your W having an EA/PA/sex with someone other than you and she come home to you everyday or till she decides to not come home, is what I was getting at.
I do care about her, but just not in a romantic way anymore. ?????? Scratching my head?????
Sounds like ILYBIANILWY?
Not in a romantic way you say? What about pure chemistry between M/F? I can be thinking what is the use and feel lonely, physically cold because I stay up till 3AM in my cold basement and go to bed. BB feels warm, so I get closer. Sometimes the M/F chemistry and I start to get an erection. If BB is reasonable receptive, I put my arm around her, my erection is firmer and I get that rush one gets when they want to have sex.
I forget about the distance between us and want to act loving towards BB. I know she likes and wants her back rubbed so I do that instead of pursuing the sexual options.
Do you feel something for your W when you are laying in bed or some other place, not exactly like I do but your version?
I suppose she could be asexual and doesn’t like anyone to touch her.
I did read the asexual forum for a while. Asexual I wondered? Maybe not intercourse there but several of the posters MB/self pleasured. Even that (MB) is not asexual.
I still find her body sexually attractive (and trust me, it looks PHENOMENAL right now), it's more of a lustful feeling than an "agape" love that a man ought to have for his wife... "Agape Love a man ought to have"??????
Choc, my opinion is would I like "Agape Love" from BB 24/7? No way man! 22 hours a day, yes.
I think you have to have some lust and some Eros. Too much of one thing can be bad. I think of Eros as the salt and pepper that puts something special into a R.
Are you both depriving each other of some salt and pepper?
that a man ought to have for his wife.. Who said? And why?
I went to a jr. pastor 20 years ago and said our M was not what it should be. I had to fill out a questionnaire that included "do you or your W abuse yourself" I had to think about that one. Well "abuse yourself" was do either one of you MB. Duh! Maybe a married couple shouldn't have to (MB) but when there is little sex happening, I bet most people do MB.
Anyway I answered no. My point is who said you should feel more agape and no or less Eros/lust.
I am going to lump a majority of the men in a group, show then a sexy picture of a woman that isn't trashy and his biology stirs up some thoughts. I am not saying it stirs up lust. It might, but my point is it stirs up something depending on the man and the situation.
I have this thought process that speculates men and women coming from an X egg (universal material for either sex) and a man's sperm is either X or Y, men/women have similar needs and processes.
There are men and women on the low end of the bell curve as well as on the high end of the bell curve in many areas.
What I am getting at is, you and your w fits somewhere in that bell curve and that/those points vary from time to time.
Because of all of the problems and a common pattern of avoiding by both of us, Aug 2006 was a low point for me, on the "I want sex." Dec 2006 was even lower. So low I was thinking sex was over for BB and I had to adjust. I was really in a bad spot.
About a month ago I was at a higher point on the bell curve wanting sex. So was BB. She said something, I don't remember what. I found some things from the Internet about older women that found intercourse uncomfortable, should try XYZ. I printed out the lists of things. BB found faults in the list, so I re-printed out the list without the objectionable items.
About a week later, BB asked about a lube in several of the articles so I went to the sex store and bought the item.
That was my first trip to the sex store. The female clerks were pleasant and helpful. I explained our situation and one clerk got into a "did you try A,B,C products. It sounded like sales talk rather than a problem solving talk.
I brought the lube home and let it sit in the bathroom for a couple of days. BB used it to test it out to see how it felt after 24 hours. She is sensitive/picky? So many things that are supposedly good, don't measure up.
A couple of days later, we used the ID brand silicone lube and had sex. Not good sex but it was something. I haven't decided if it was worth having sex from the "it should have been pleasurable" point or maybe it wasn’t that good but it was sort of good and it needed to be done. Needed to be done for several reasons, which I haven’t totally worked out in my mind.
My point choc, I think sometimes you have to just do it to save the R. To save yourself. To save your W. It might not be mind blowing, it might be a highly anxiety filled event. I think your W might need the chase, the attention.
I avoid conflicts too. I had a customer that didn't pay a bill or pays part of a bill for 3 years. There were some old invoices that I have been avoiding to talk over with the person that calls me for service.
I printed out the un-paid invoices and the activity report, stating what was paid and not paid. Without showing emotions, I presented the bills to the person that pays the bills.
Why did I wait so long? Anxiety, and fear of making someone I do make a profit from, that they would be upset to the point they would switch to another company for their service work.
I was thinking, do I want 80% of my money due to me from this company or do I want to risk getting all or none in the future?
It has happened before. I lost a couple of customers because I billed them honestly and asked for payment.
Maybe customers and spouses are not the same. I think some of the reasons I don't do some things and ask for what is legitimately right, if fear of losing something. Fear of someone saying NO (in essence, you don't deserve it).
Back to you.
She needs to have her physical beauty validated, and since she no longer gets that from me, she's seeking it elsewhere. Because (at least so far), her personal value system hasn't allowed her to commit adultery, Well, validate her in more ways than verbal.
Personal values and ethics hold up to a point. I think NOP is telling you; many people with value systems have a breaking point. I have read the stories on another forum where mostly women post. They say they wanted nothing to do with any other man than their H. After 5/10/15 years of nothing from their H and the same amount of time 5/10/15 of knowing good male friend with never any overtones of stepping over the line, the woman said they just gave in to the feelings of being lonely and soaked up the attention form this 5/10/15 year friends only male.
The women say they couldn't help then self. They knew it was wrong. They wanted a better M but didn't push for one. They thought they could get by with crumbs. They found they couldn't when in a deep valley.
A couple of years post EA/PA these women admit they caved but also some mostly blame the OM. :eyeroll:
Let him catch her. BTDT
"I love you, and I still think God put us together for a reason, and that we had something special. So don't misunderstand me -- I'd like you to stay with me.. So, if Mrs. choc found someone she liked a lot, given her values, could she divide her time between the OP and your family? I am of the opinion it would be OP or miserable with the family. I know I am not good at dual R person.
Do I get to keep my same kids tho? Oh yes. It would be a new type of R of your choosing. To everyone, that is the way it has always been. Magic wands change the people, not their behaviors so your kids would be as they were and if you chose a different W, they would have been hers all along and the old Mrs. Choc would not have know about the kids.
she has still given me the four loves of my life Magic wands would give her something equal in value.
Choc, the magic wand is like making the changes that work for you and her. The magic wand has no down sides or heartaches, bummer.
Question for alpha Males? How about males that sometimes avoid anxiety but still forge ahead? How to forge ahead.
Sorry, but I have been where your W is - buff and all. I got my certification in my 30's and was in tip top shape. Did that for a while and then had to find a "real job" that could pay the bills. Some years later, at the ripe old age of 49/50 I got into the gym scene all over again and felt really good about myself and was being invited out all over town by a lot of guys (and some women) that were a whole heck of a lot younger than I was. Most I met through the gym and, I have to say, I was flattered that younger men found me attractive - I was also asked if I wanted to work there part-time and serious thought about it because I could get my fees for free
But, before things could get out of control, my common sense took over and I am glad it did because I was going into unchartered territory. Emotions are running pretty high when you are an older woman and feeling pretty damn good about yourself and there are a LOT of younger guys that are just drooling to date older women
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I even told her at the time that if it ever "wore off" again to the extent that it had (I'm not talking about a mere "bad day"; we all have those . . I'm talking about the total rejection and lack of affection, if THAT ever returned, that I would NOT beg for her affection, and that the love life would basically be over.
All I wanted was advice on what to say to my wife about what happened last nite
That's what you say as an opening line, but that's not where you went and that's not where your emotion and frustration comes from. Go back and read this thread and all your comments. I do not believe you want simple advice on what to say to your W. If that were so, just tell her the simple lines you first stated. They are good enough for someone who doesn't care. There is no point is even worrying over how they might sound to her.
I think you want your W to love you as she once did, but you want us to justify to you why you should keep your distance from her to protect yourself. I think you are in denial of your true feelings. I can fully understand that and empathize with you, but I won't support you in it.
Well, I'll jump in here. I don't think mrs. choc is going to have sex with anyone. Sex messes up your makeup and your hair and you get all sticky. I think she just wants to know that she can compete with the 20-30-somethings and win. She wants to know that guys want her, but I don't see her having sex with any of them. Why would she?
I think she wants to be a teenager and go out and party and have guys hit on her, guys who don't require any follow-through. Then she will come home to a nice house with the husband and kids, the tv, food in the fridge, where everything is taken care of.
I like the simple, "Call when you're going to be late, so I'll know not to call the cops. If I don't hear from you by midnight, I'll call you, and if you don't answer, I'll be down to make sure you're okay." IOW treat her like the teenager she is.
