Hi, Been reading your sitch, very similar to mine. I found out about the ow in Jan 2004, it was a EA and then became a Pa after I found out. I did the normal screaming, trying to convince H that he is living in a fantasy ETC nothing worked.
I told him to leave in May until he could give up Ow and go into counseling. After two weeks H said he ended it and went to couples couseling.
It was a nightmare all he did was mope around missing ow and told me that he was IL with her but wanted to see if he could get the spark back in our twenty year m. DUH how could I compete with a new fantasy. They were in the la la stage and he can not see straight.
After five weeks of this nightmare I pushed and pushed h because I couldn't live in limbo land anymore and I was really questioning if I still wanted this alien who was willing to walk away from his w and family ( two kids) because ow who is divorced said she wouldn't have a r with him if he stays married.
We went to a divorce mediator on June 28th and I freaked out. It was in that session that I decided I wanted to fight for my m and that H has lost his way. I also realized that both of us had contributed to the problems in our M- pushed things under the rug ( although I never thought we had a bad M just a 20 year one) and that h was 100% responsible for the A. (b by the way ow lives around the corner and her daughter and mine WERE friends.
Anyway coincidentally this was the same day I found out about db- got the book and started reading.
When you are dealing with an OP there are only two ways to do it -180 and LR, but I believed I could db better if h was living at home.
So the next morning I told H I had a idea.
Put the mediation on hold I will not focus on the two of them anymore-don't have any energy I will focus on taking care of myself and kids Let h live in the house for financial reasons and child care Issues(we both work) and see how it goes.
H asked if that means he could do what he wanted? I responded I will not focus on you or ask you about what you are doing and I will not tell H anything I'm doing either.
Well if I could tell you H was like a kid in the candy shop- you can imagine he's thinking I can remain home in my house (where I want to be) see my kids every day see the ow ( which my wife knows about) have my cake and eat it too
The only problem that he would have is that he already told ow he's moving out and getting a d
Too bad -now he has to lie to ow ( just what I want) now maybe ow will put pressure on H.b)
"try to figure out what OM is offering her and what needs he is meeting and try to meet those needs myself. Should I continue to be a bastion of support and understanding while letting her sneak around under my nose?
Answer to this YES- read the five love languages and figure out what the OM is doing
"but I'm running out of energy. As you know, this is all give, give, give and I'm getting nothing in return."
Answer to this you are right you will have to do 100% of the work now and it is extremely difficult.
But you must approach this intellectually not emotionally and look at this as you will do the dbing until you get past the crisis mode.
NO pressure on her patience patience
I know in my sitch I have seen a couple of baby steps First it confuses the H--- out of h when I don't ask because this is a 180 for me and then I figured ou that the ow is using flattery, affiramtion, encoragement and gratefulness. I have now become very aware the small things H does and I make sure I comment on them and thank him. Also tell h when he looks good.
The other thing I'm doing and this might be hard is I'm initiating ML with H and have left sexy messages on his answering machine ( i know she has done this) boy what a reaction H just eats it up. Another one of his love languages. The ML part keeps the intimacy going and I know is confusing the h--- out of H because now H is cheating on ow, lying to ow ( can't imagine h is telling her he ml with wife, sleeping in same bed and has put d on hold.)
And I know from a mutual friend that ow has already asked H why are you still living there? HA HA We are in the position of power, we must be strong to pull this off and as my therapist says only a small percentge of people could do this.
Look we are on this website and we are ntrying to save our m so if this works it will be worth it. Let the OP put the pressure on, we can't do it.
Be aware you will loose it somedays (I have ) then I start right back again the next day because I am trying to outlast this A which I know is only temporary and I know that one day my H will wake up and regret it>
After doing all new stuff for myself and detachong from H then I will know what I want to do. Which will take time, If we run away now we will never know and we couldn' say we tried everything.
Look if you asked me two months ago would I do this I would have told you you were nuts but here I am.
Hope this helps keep posting and venting here especially when you feel like you going insane.
Boy was your post what I wanted to hear this morning...I am in a very similar situation and I was wondering how much longer do I continue living in this 3person relationship since I feel like I have no dignity left...I have done many 180s but the OW is still there...your comments gave me some more insight on how to offer my husband some of what he is receiving from the OW...some more examples from you would even provide greater incentive so that I can stay focused...like how do you detach from husband to take care of yourself and your two children but still offer him the care and affection and self esteem that most MLC's are craving?
First let me tell you-none of this is easy. There are days I cry all the way to work, I have learned not to do it in front of h anymore.
I found that it's easier to detach if I treat my H like a roommate ( you can read my posts on this site).
I also have worked on me-taking spanish lessonand cooking classes. With the H home I have a built in babysitter- when I come home from the classes I'm upbeat and tell H what Iv'e learned. Also say I always wanted to do this.
On the weekends I take the kids to the beach with or with out H. We have worked out a schedule that we alternate SAT nights, one week I go out(don't tell where) the other week H goes out(i know with who)beleieve me this is hard but I have friends I call on these nights.
The only thing I ask is that we give each other notice if we are going out during the week after work or whatever, so someone is home with kids.
As for the ow I know from snooping( which i am working on stopping ) that they talk on the cell sometimes 15 times in a day. Sooo high school I started to think what could they possibly talk about- and then I read the Five Love Languages by Dobson-get it. If you konw your H you will be able to figure out which language he needs and believe me the ow is speaking it. Anyway thats what I learned to do and I really have to make a conscious effort because somedays I want to say Get the F--- out you a--hole.
I also ask his opinion on things and tell him that it's a good idea ( even if I don't think so) because he real;ly likes this.
Low self esteem. Someone once told me the Oscars are wasted on Hollywood and I think that during this crisis it's true..
We will still have alot of work to do when this ow blows over but then it will be two people working on a m. Right now it's onesided. But the goal is to out last this A which they say can take 6 months or more UG. and hopefully get our H's back from their journey. Right now I want h back and believe that he is really lost but I want a new H back.
The ml part is definately a strong tactic, we have never had probl;ems in this area and obviously if he's willing to do it. It can't be that great with the ow so I'm using that. I have to be honest sometimes I want to cry when we do it and others I really don't want to be intimate but I convince myself that it's a strong connection and in the begining there was no eye contact and no kissing-now I can get him to kiss me and he has even stroked my arm afterwards.
Its strange because now h even flirts with me. But I tell you those messages I leave or even if I just say something like " that was really hot last night" in a sexy voice he loves it and I always get a call back with more word play.
Thank you, willtry. Your two posts were the best part of my day today. You gave some great strategies and provided ample inspiration. I realize that I do need to work on affirming my W and trying to offer her more than I currently am doing. The notion of looking for those tiny little things was very useful.
I admire you for being able to ML with your H. If only my W were willing to do the same. It has been a long time now and she says, flat out, that she feels absolutely no affection towards me and zero desire to touch, hug, kiss and especially ML. As you can guess, that is a real slap in the face and living without any intimacy is almost becoming unbearable.
Again, thanks. You have definitely boosted my spirits and provided some good suggestions. I'll look into the book you mentioned.
As for things with us right now, they are about the same. In discussions today my W says that she has maintained zero contact with OM. This could be the truth. I know that she typed an email to him about my trip out of town, but I don't know that she sent it since he hasn't replied. I hope that she didn't. She says though, that even without him in the picture, she doesn't feel any better towards me and she is still unhappy with our M, as she was before she met OM.
I guess DB is the only answer and I'll have to be prepared to work my a** off for the next several months to make some significant changes.
I agree, those posts from Willtry are awesome, but I noticed something in your reply:
In discussions today my W says that she has maintained zero contact with OM. This could be the truth. I know that she typed an email to him about my trip out of town, but I don't know that she sent it since he hasn't replied.
From this, I am assuming that you are still having talks about your R. Ya gotta stop this man, otherwise the only results you will get are this:
She says though, that even without him in the picture, she doesn't feel any better towards me and she is still unhappy with our M, as she was before she met OM.
Look familiar? Your DBing starts with no longer reading her email, and no longer talking to her about R, even if she wants to, you just listen and get out of that conversation as quickly and gracefully as you can.
Hi, glad I can help and I do agree with Sinjin you need to stop the R talk. Having said that I lost it last night, you can read about it on my post.
The strange thing is that I really do understand what I have to do and I can give advice about it. But when it's happening to you it is the worst thing you could imagine and all you want ot do is have a crystal ball to see if this suffering will be worth it. Because make no bones about it this suffering, and when you feel like your dying inside these tactics are really hard to do. I think thats why my therapist said that she didn't think that most people could accomplish this but that I seem like a very strong person.
You know when she said that I got pissed because I certainly don't feel strong and sometimes I think it's just an act on my part.
Today is a bad one and I'm really questioning my decision to do this, I'm also questioning if my H is really a person I want or am I just afraid of the consequences of being a single parent. I hate him today but tomorrow another story? I wish there was a pill to mend my broken heart.
Could a person who you have spent more than half you life with be so cruel or have they become a different person?
Bad night-bad day going out with friends tonight-hopefully will be in a better mood tomorrow. Need to be for the kids
Both Sinjin and Willtry are right, the R talk has to stop. This is my objective for the week. No more of it. And this week is our eight-year anniversary too.
I am trying to think in terms of doing a 180, but what I'm struggling with is identifying what it is I'm doing that doesn't work. It is so easy for me to see it in others, but hard for me to see my own behaviours objectively.
Thanks for the support and very sound advice. Good luck to you, Willtry, I hope your next few days are better. Q
For those who have been following the saga, and offering valuable advice, this is where we are now.
I has been more than two weeks and W has had zero contact with OM. I am certain of this since I was able to monitor their contact before, and she also has no unexplained behaviour. From my point of view, this is very good and I consider myself extremely fortunate given that the whole ordeal lasted only three months and nothing physical ever happened between them. Given the other stories I have read on this site, I count myself lucky.
Now comes the hard work, rebuilding our marriage. So, I'll likely start a thread in another forum that is more suited to that topic.
I had hoped that my last post would be just that, the last post in this story. However, I just learned that my wife has initiated contact with OM again after over one month. In this email to him she goes on to say that time has not helped her, and she still feels no more love for her husband (me) and she still thinks of him often. She tells him that we have not kissed in months and that she is "going without." Then she proposes that the two of them have a quick get-away vacation together before he leaves the country forever, and asks him to imagine the state of readiness she'll be in if they are alone together after having had no intimacy for months.
Over the last month I have been trying to practice DB principles, but don't know that I've been doing that well. Obviously my W doesn't feel any differently towards me, though she tells all her friends how kind and patient I have been and that she still wants me in her life, but as a brother-type person.
I guess the thing to do is to get back to basics with DBing. I realize that I do need to spend more time working on my own development. I have spent too much time catering to her needs and pussyfooting around her hoping to make her happy. Obviously it's not working, so a change of strategy is in order.
Of course, any more advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Sorry to hear of the negative developments. If you've been being really nice to your W now might be the time to do a 180 and go dark. She's doing all this for soemone who's leaving the country? I think she needs to see what it will be like to be w/out you once he's gone so she can figure out if she really wants to be without you.
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