I just wanted to say that I believe your posts ARE real, and that your pain is real, and I also believe your situation is quite common. I do not think you are being "weak," or that your marriage will necessarily go down the drain just because your wife is currently refusing to give up OM, and you are currently choosing to tolerate that. Take heart!... most affairs do not dissolve marriages! It happens, of course, but the odds are on your side that the affair will fail and your marriage will prevail.
I am currently in your wife's shoes, and my H is currently in your shoes. I don't have any "answers" for you, but I do have some first-hand insights into your situation.
There is a diffence between intention and behavior. When your wife says she "intends" to split with OM, she is probably NOT purposely trying to deceive you or play games or make your life hell or take advantage of the situation. It is more likely that a big part of her truly does desire to split with OM and restore her marriage. However, her feelings for OM cause her to remain in CONFLICT about this. Because of the conflict, she is not yet able to bring her behavior into "alignment" with her verbalized intentions to you. Get it? So for now, it's best to take what she says with a grain of salt... that will prevent you from going insane every time she does not follow up her words with the promised behavior. In fact, you may find it helpful to take my H's approach... he told me once "don't tell me what you're GOING to do about it, tell me what you've DONE." You might tell her that when she has avoided ALL contact with OM for a month, you will consider the affair truly over, and that you will be extremely proud of her when she is able to pull that off. That will give her a concrete little goal to hang onto when the going gets rough, and it will get rough for her. My intuition is that she is in love with this OM, not just "lusting."
It sounds like you have not confronted OM. I think that is a very wise course of action for many reasons that I won't get into.
Stop reading your wife's e-mails! This is ridiculous. Be a grown up. If you want to know what is going on between her and OM, it's much better to sit her down, take her hand, and ASK. If you don't think you can get an honest answer, then your marriage has a bigger problem than this affair, and that would be lack of authenticity with eachother. Work on creating a spirit of unconditional acceptance and positive regard between you and wife, so that she will disclose even the most difficult aspects of her life and heart to you honestly, without you needing to spy on her like an enemy. Does that make sense to you... trying to have a marriage worth saving, if you are going to take the trouble to save it? I hope so.
Unless you want to embark on the adventure of an "open marriage, you CANNOT have your marriage back if W is to remain "friends" with OM, or in any contact with him at all. Your wife will probably not realize this till she experiences that fact for herself. You cannot put toothpast back in a tube. This relationship between W and OM is not platonic and never will be, or ever can be. That MEANS that if she is "just being friends" with him, she is still having an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR with another man. Make no mistake about that whatsoever. If all she does is e-mail him once a year to say "Happy New Year" she is still having an emotional affair with another man. She will get mad if you make this point, so do it sensitively and don't keep harping on it. And don't expect her to buy it, she won't.
Her maintaining any contact at all with OM will just keep the affair on "low simmer" and keep it a constant threat to your M. Also, it will keep her heart split, her hopes for OM alive, and her attentions divided. THE OM MUST GO. She knows that, way deep down. But right now, her fantasy that she can remain friends with OM and still have a healthy marriage is a "crutch" she needs in order to BEGIN the process of giving up the affair. That's normal.
Should you condone the crutch? That's a tough one. There are pros and cons... I vote yes, because she'll try to keep him in the loop as a friend anyway, whether you "accept it" or not. And, it sounds like she's the type who'll have no problem lying to you about this if she needs to, unfortunately... So you might as well condone a "friendship" between her and OM if you must, and win points for being "understanding." I would tell her that you condone it only because you have complete faith that she will come to realize that the quality of your M will be best served by avoiding all contact with OM."
Then, you will have to hope that she eventually DOES come to realize that a "friendship" with OM (read: Emotional Affair) is a bad idea. As she tries to continue the friendship/EA she will realize that this will "cost" her in some emotional ways. The more emotional needs YOU can meet, the less likely she will be willing to keep paying the price of the EA.
But right now, your W is not even to the point of trying to take it down to a friendship/EA! She is still trying to meet him, and you really need to talk with her about WHY. Is it to "say goodbye?" Is it because she feels the affair has not "run it's course?" Is it because she wants to explore a relationship with OM that she would consider leaving her marriage for?
Married men often continue affairs "for fun", because they simply enjoy the pleasure of being with the OW. It's often no more complicated than that for them. This is usually NOT not the case when married WOMEN stray. With women, things are complicated!! They are not usually just in it for the thrills or the diversion. Women are EMOTIONAL creatures. Chances are, if she wants to see OM, there is a REASON. A PLAN in her pretty little head. A plan besides just "fun." Try to get the honest scoop on her plan, from her, not by spying. That way you can dialogue with her about it. Isn't that what married people are supposed to do, openly discuss problems and decide what to do about them, as a team?
Thanks Annalise for your great input. It is interesting for me to read others thoughts and inputs, and to guage their intrepretation of our situation based on what I write.
What I need to say is that my wife and I do have excellent communication and are both trained in this field. She is also extremely honest, and last night told me that she had arranged her final meeting with OM, in a public place with her friend acting as chaperone. My W is very honest when she speaks to me, and we have amazingly frank and rational discussions about the emotional aspects of our relationship, her affair, etc. We are both very well-read on the subject and quite cognizant of the stages of affairs, the reasons for affairs, etc. When she tells me something, she believes it; but as you say, Annalise, she is not always able to follow through on her intentions.
As for my strength, I can't help but feel slightly insulted by Davis' comment. I am extremely strong with my wife, and have more self-confidence and self-respect than average. I offer her all the support I can, I demand honesty from her, and I am allowing her to meet one more time so that she can bring some closure to things. I cannot make her stop seeing OM, but we have negotiated this meeting together and it makes sense to me to allow her that. I could tell her never to see him again, and she would agree to that; but it would seem to her like me controlling her and she would resent me for it. As well, I believe that she needs to bring closure to the affair, for her own good. She is just that kind of person.
As for the spying... she has been very honest with me and has not withheld any information. She has told me how many times they've met (4), that they have briefly kissed once, and she usually tells me when they email (sort of a confession). However, I still feel compelled to want to know what she says to him. It does hurt incredibly to hear her say that she wants him, and dreams of a night with him, etc, but I want to have this knowledge so I can determine how I need to act around her. I suppose I feel like I have information that gives me an advantage (not over her, but over the alternative), but it does come at a certain cost.
So, at this point we are just carrying on. I will be out of town much of this month, and she'll be home with the kids and her girlfriend who says she won't be accomplice to any kind of meetings or romance between W and OM. My theory is that I simply have to ride this rollercoaster and if I find myself in a position to negotiate, I will, but otherwise I need to let my W make her own decisions so that she can accept them and act upon them without resenting me. At the end of the day, I want her to look back and know that I acted honourably and respectfully, giving her the space to make her own decisions.
Thanks for the kind words, Annalise, I hope that you are able to work through your situation with as little pain and suffering as possible. It sounds as though you have all the resources.
I really can't imagine how you stay sane reading her e-mails. I have written my OM the most worshipful, detailed, romantic, erotic stuff humanly imaginable. My H would probably NOT have had the strength wait this out had he been reading my e-mails. He saw just the subject line of one one time, by accident, and was mortified.
You say " I want to have this knowledge so I can determine how I need to act around her." Bear with me... so you are saying, if she is being a certain way with him (say romantic, or hesitant or upset) you THINK you know just how you are supposed to react to that for maximal strategy effect??? Well, even if you are a savvy manipulator (which you sound like!) I don't think people are that predictable or easily manipulated. Too many other variables involved! I think you know that and are just being plain old nosy, quite frankly. Mark my words... one day she is going to say something to OM that is going to be so painful to you, you are going to have trouble accepting it, your W, and your M. That seems like self-sabotage to me.
"I will be out of town much of this month, and she'll be home with the kids and her girlfriend who says she won't be accomplice to any kind of meetings or romance between W and OM."
You being out of town... THIS IS VERY BAD TIMING! Your marriage is at stake. On the brink! Isn't there ANY POSSIBLE way you could be with her for at least three steady weeks after she (supposedly) wraps up with OM? This is critical...
Go to a web site called "Marriage Builders" ... Dr. Harley recommends that the W spend MAXIMAL time with her H right after break-up with OM. And that the H make maximal effort with loving gestures and positive, complimentary veralizations at this time. It considerably reduces the risk that she will fall back into contact with OM!! Remember, ... every time she falls back (recidivism) it makes it that much MORE likely she will fall back AGAIN the next time. Because recidivism is a habit in and of itself, in addition to the habit of the affair! You really need to be by her side at this time, that's my two cents.
I can tell you from my own experience that reading her email is bad for you. I collected every one of my wife's emails for two months, and had to listen to her lie looking me right in the eye, and it killed me. There is NO WAY you can make the changes you need to make in yourself while you are doing this.
I would advocate this: if you REALLY want to try to work this out - let this thing with your W run it's course. Try not to think about it as much as possible, just do what you need to do. It will be the hardest thing you will ever do in your life, but I personally think it is the only way you have a chance in your W.
Look, your wife saying one thing and doing the complete opposite is NORMAL in this case, no matter what you think of it. She is so swept up in the OM, you cannot base any of your decisions on how she acted in the past. The best you can do is let this go, and perhaps she will decide for herself that you are what she wants.
I know that all of this probably sounds insane to you. Oh, and I wouldn't be out of town if I were you. In this situation out of sight is out of mind.
I apologize if you felt insulted by my post.. I do not take any pleasure in seeing you in this situation. I can only respond to the information that you give. If the evidence that you present gives a picture of a wife who says one thing but in reality is really pursuing an affair than, in my opinion, it would be foolish to think that she has seen the light and really wants to rebuild the marriage. For example, informing the OM that she is buying lingerie with him in mind does not convey a picture of a wife who is seeking closure. What you need to understand is that people who are in affairs can give perfomances of being truthful and sincere that are worthy of academy awards. As for her needing to meet this OM for closure. That is a lot of hogwash. She can send a letter or even phone him to end this affair. Healing and getting over an affair cannot begin unless there is NC. Affairs are addictive. The only way to stop is to go cold turkey. That is why NC is so important so healing can begin. Affairs, like alcoholism or drug addiction, can lead to break up of marriages and families. IMO, one does not lend support to a destructive behaviour. That is why I do not agree with the advice that is given to allow an affair to run it’s course.
It has just been my experience that trying to get a cheating spouse to end an affair "cold turkey" backfires. Believe me, if there was some way you could get them to stop, and not resent you for it, I am all in.
Davis - have you had a personal experience like the one you talk about? Did you manage to get your spouse to quit "cold turkey" and work things out to stay with you? If you did, I would love to hear how it happened.
Thanks to you all, your advice is very helpful and very sound. I know the value of it, and I just have to be strong enough to take it to heart and stop my behaviours that are causing so much pain. As for being out of town, I had hoped that it might allow my W to think of me fondly, see me in a new light, and miss me. I will be gone a couple of days, home again, gone a couple of days... Hopefully this is not as harmful as you have all suggested.
Thanks for everything. I mean that. I'll keep you posted. Q
PS: My wife did not follow through with her plan to meet OM for the last time while I was just away, though I don't know why yet since we haven't had a chance to talk.
I have been trying to take the good advice offered, but find that keeping tabs on my Ws conversations with OM is an addiction in and of itself. I have been good for two or so days, but today I faltered. What I learned is that OM is suggesting that the two of them meet in a hotel to "talk" and to say their final goodbye.
The two of them have not had any physical contact other than some holding and a very quick kiss. I am certain that if this meeting takes place, it will put that bar up a notch so that, at the very least, there will be prolonged kissing. I can easily imagine that they would end up in bed together... for what else is there to do in a hotel room? It is virtually inevitable. While I try to give my wife credit for being strong and virtuous, I'm not sure that she would be adverse to the idea of sleeping with him. Actually, I'm pretty sure she would welcome the idea. Naturally, I suspect that he would bed her in a second, even though by now he must have come to the conclusion that the affair can't last since this is supposed to be "the last meeting."
At this point my mind is reeling and my senses agitated to the point I am shaking. Should I try to avert this meeting? Should I email OM and tell him that if he has any contact with my W that I will alert his partner to his traitorous behaviour? He is still living with a woman who knows nothing of this whole affair.
I am so torn as to what to do. I could live with them seeing each other one last time, but in a public place. Unfortunately, my Ws friend wanted nothing to do with accompanying my W to see him one last time, so that didn't happen. Now my W feels that she needs to resort to seeing him privately, which, in my mind, is far worse and far more dangerous.
What to do? Should I try to prevent the meeting, or should I just let it happen and live with the consequences?
I would say that you are right on, as far as meeting in a hotel room. There is nothing else to do there. If all they wanted to do was talk, they could meet in a park or something.
Let's look at this. If you do nothing, they will meet and you will find out what happened via your snooping. If they do have sex, what will you do?
Does your W know that the OM lives with a woman? Be prepared that if you alert the other woman, you will need to go with the facts as she will not want to believe it either. Also, your W might not take this act very kindly either. I wouldn't let that stop you though.
This soap opera will continue until you put your foot down and make it very clear to her that she is playing a very dangerous game that will end in destroying the marriage. If you don't think that her meeting in a hotel room is not going to end up with him boinking her you are dreaming. Of course, your wife knows that. Otherwise she wouldn't even consider meeting him there.
As I mentioned in my other posts her words to you about wanting to rebuild the marriage is not backed up by her actions. Furthermore, I would not be so sure that she has not had sexual encounters with him already. What this calls for is giving her a strong reality check. I would have your lawyer prepare a letter stating that you are not prepared to stay married to her since her intention is to commit adultery which will result in a divorce anyways. Since you are not prepared to stand by and allow this to happen you have given your lawyer instructions to begin the process to divorce her. If on the other hand, she chooses to stay married she will end her relationship with this OM immediately and show that she is committed to doing whatever is necessary to earn back your respect and trust.
I don't think people are that predictable or easily manipulated. Too many other variables involved! I think you know that and are just being plain old nosy, quite frankly. Mark my words... one day she is going to say something to OM that is going to be so painful to you, you are going to have trouble accepting it, your W, and your M. That seems like self-sabotage to me. 