This is my first post – been lurking for months. Thought I was in piecing but maybe not. Should I be in piecing, newcomers, or midlife crisis? Warning – this is very long.
Me – 47 H – 52 Married 14 yrs in June No kids
The bomb dropped on Dec 7, appropriately enough. Got the same old “I love you but not like a wife”, “life is too short”, yada, yada. He moved into other bedroom and I spent the first two nights crying and wailing, but never cried in front of him again after that even though I did cry every day for the next two months. I often wonder what the people on the highway thought seeing this crazy women crying in her car all the way home every day. But then I always “acted as if” I was OK when I walked through the door at home.
Trying to be brief and not succeeding– I immediately made myself scarce and kept to myself and gave him plenty of space. I did initiate some R talks in the beginning because I was trying to understand what was happening and he was pretty good about it and was never mean or nasty. (Neither of us has said anything yet that we have cause to regret.) Got the classic lines to indicate a MLC – maybe he never loved me, didn’t know if the marriage was ever good, and so on. Even found a note that said one of the ways he had “harmed” me was “agreeing to the marriage”, a big revision of history since he pursued me big time not the other way around.
Soon after I got on Internet and found books (DR/DB) and forums and learned about MLC, and as usual, could see the stages after the fact. Our situation is also complicated by his alcoholism although it’s not the main issue. He had been sober for more than 9 years when we married, but he started drinking again about 5 years ago. He has now been sober again and heavily back into AA for more than 2 years. He said he straightened up again because he realized he could lose me and our marriage, but I wonder if this was the start of his MLC, or whether it delayed it, because our problems seemed to develop soon after he started his recovery. He became more distant. I thought I was giving him space for his recovery, thinking that his self-absorption was necessary for his recovery, but as I was being so noble, I realize now my anger/resentment was probably pretty clear. I was also resentful because he is LD spouse.
I’m 99% sure there is no OW, yet (although I know he wants the chance – more later), but we’ve been through the new interest in appearance, new clothes, concern re diet/exercise, an obsession with bicycling (two new bicycles totaling $4,100), possible cosmetic surgery, looking at buying sports car, and lots more spending on his new hobby. I am thankful that his focus is on the bicycling and not an OW. I figure it’s generally a solitary activity and it uses up a lot of energy (I think he’s too tired for an OW). He goes for bike rides now every Sat & Sun morning, and is currently on 3-day bike trip with 3 other guys.
Back to story. A week or so after bomb, I left him a note saying the situation wasn’t working for me, that I didn’t want him to leave but since that was what HE wanted I thought he should go ahead and leave now. Didn’t know then what I know now. He said he understood and that he would leave - he had separated friend’s house to go to even though he whined that it would be too much like college roomates (did he think this was supposed to be comfortable?). Anyway, he didn’t leave – no explanation.
Couple of weeks after that, he said he asked tenant to leave our rental apartment so he could live there, but tenant wouldn’t be leaving until mid Jan. So Dec-Jan we’re in a holding pattern and I’m trying not to show how miserable I am. I make the decision to totally ignore Xmas so that future ones won’t be associated with this, and I start really examining myself. Strangely enough for someone who usually has a problem with anger and resentment, I find myself not angry and not resentful anymore. We start to eat most meals together, go out to breakfast, etc. He has never acted as if he can’t stand to be with me. He invites me to go to Xmas dinner at his sponsor’s and introduces me as if he’s proud to be with me and even looks at me across the room and smiles as if we’re a loving couple?? That morning at breakfast he blurted out that things seem so much better that he’s not sure he should leave (looked as if he wished he hadn’t said it),and even makes a comment that at least I haven’t lost my sense of humor when I make a joke. Throughout Jan-Feb, he is in classic MLC confusion – if I didn’t know better, I would have thought he had a brain tumor or something. Total memory lapses, weird behavior, not sleeping, clearly conflicted, but he’s still fairly pleasant, much less anger.
He even takes me with him to look at sofabeds during this bizarre time (who’s crazier him or me?). I figure I’d rather know what’s going on than be wondering and ASSuming (big problem for me). During one of these sofabed shopping trips, he has a little breakdown when he sees the salesman keeps looking at me for my opinion and I say it’s not up to me. He starts talking about how selfish it was of him, how he doesn’t know if he’s making a mistake, maybe he’ll be miserable, but it’s just something he has to do. This is a recurring theme from the beginning – “it’s just something I have to do, I’m not saying it’s permanent.” Anyway, I give an Oscar-worthy performance, patting his knee and telling him I understand. I tell him it’s not as if I never felt like leaving too. He seems to be speechless after that.
Sorry this is so long – fast forwarding. After tenant leaves Jan 12, I ask when he will be leaving and he says he has no timetable. He spends that next 2-3 months buying sofabed, making improvements at apt, new bath vanity, toilet, refrigerator, carpet, etc. No R talks, no hint what he’s thinking or when he’s leaving. He’s doing more things around the house than he has in a long while. I keep dbing my ass off, develop goals, no questions, always acting as if I’m pretty happy, scheduling my own activities, etc. We start going out to dinner each Sat & Sun afternoon and the interaction seems really good. We’re still in separate bedrooms. He does a weird stay at the apt in mid-March, says its closer to the out of town job he has that week (it’s only 20 min from our house), but calls me as soon as he gets there the first night, comes home for dinner the second night, and comes home for good the third night??!!
So, I give him even more space, always going to bed first, sometimes spending evening in my room, going off by myself on Sat-Sun, asking nothing of him but making an effort to be interested in his activities, talking much less, being quieter, complimenting him, always being positive (180’s). I validate his interest in surgery but say I think he’s a very handsome man already (he seems to lose interest in idea after that).
Divine Providence comes in the form of a old friend/apartment neighbor who calls at Easter looking for apt for the summer. This is just one day after the new carpet is installed, leaving nothing left that I can think of for him to change at the apt. Just when I’m thinking he can’t leave it empty for another month – it’s been 3 mos by then. Bottom line, he tells me that evening he told friend he could use the apt.
I’m thinking this dbing really works, things are looking good, since then I’ve seen quite a few more baby steps, more interest in my activities, more consideration, generally more connection. I was thinking I’ve been piecing since about mid-March.
Then last night I destroy my own piece of mind by snooping, something I’ve tried not to do. I find drafts of a letter he was trying to write sometime in late March, I think just a couple of weeks before he said friend could use the apt. He goes on about giving me the wrong impression, that he told me he was leaving 3 months before and that he’s sorry he delayed things, that it’s painful, he’s sorry, but it’s something he has to do or he’ll regret it (WTF? He single for 38 yrs!), he’s not saying it’s permanent. In one version he says he needs to leave for a minimum of 6 months, doesn’t expect me to wait. I find pro/con lists of staying/leaving house and living/not living at apt. He lists dating as a pro for apt and not dating as a con for the house. He lists being not free, emotionally dead. He lists comfortable, familiar, the dogs, garage for his bikes/motorcyle as the pros for the house.
I’m starting to feel as if everything has been for nothing. I’m trying to turn this into a positive by telling myself he felt this way but only a week or two later he told friend he could have the apt at least through August. I’m spinning it to believe that was almost two months ago and this is now. That most of the reconnection I felt, I think has been SINCE then. But I’m feeling that I’ve really been fooling myself all of this time.
I realize that my situation is not as terrible as many on this board. I am in awe of how some of you are able to be so strong in the face of infidelity and verbal abuse.
If it feels good to write...then do it! All of the posts on my thread look like yours. Gotta get out all those feelings somehow, and it's better than directing it at your H.
You are whichever place you want to be in. I can tell you that you will probably get more attention over in newcomers. But it's really up to you where you want to post.
To be honest, you sound like you've made some pretty good progress on your own! Baby steps are the key. Your H is obviously having a hard time with what he wants to do....all the drafts, the pros/cons list. Try not to be so upset by it. And try not to snoop anymore. But, look at it this way--there is still some indecision!
Quote: He lists being not free, emotionally dead. He lists comfortable, familiar, the dogs, garage for his bikes/motorcyle as the pros for the house.
Sounds like this guy could use a little something to shake up his world. I don't mean this in a bad way! Try to create some mystery. Let me know if you need some specific examples, and I'll try to dig up some of the threads on it. Also, the "get a life" might work well for you, too.
You sound like you have a pretty good handle on yourself. Keep up the PMA, you're fighting the good fight.
I'm sure not an expert (and haven't even slept at Holiday Inn ... that's a commercial for those that haven't seen it) but I would say welcome to MLC. Somewhere you don't want to be but don't really have a say or choice in the matter.
I've had the same "type" of "on again" "off again" relationship for the last 10 months. You can see it here Help-losing hope
I'm not sure what to tell you as I'm not in a good place at the moment as I'm beginning to feel this time might be the grand finale. However, what I have decided to try is to just be his friend. We are and have been best friends as long as we've known each other. So, I thought if I just forget we have anything except that - maybe I won't expect more and he will feel less pressure. I can still stay in contact without feeling something is missing.
You might try that but with these MLC'ers anything that works today will not work tomorrow.
Nevanna and Bestfriends, Thanks so much for your responses. This bb has been a great source of comfort to me. Everyone is so supportive of the efforts to save our marriages. My friends think I’m doing amazingly well but they’re wondering how long I’m going to put up with it.
You’re right – the few times I’ve added a little mystery have gone well but I am running out of ideas. Also running out of 180’s but since it seems to be working, I’ll keep going. I am concentrating on being the best friend I can. When this all came down, he said I was his best friend. I just keep focusing on not pushing anything because that seems to work.
The separate bedrooms is really bothering me, but I don’t see him making any moves anytime soon. Especially since when I though he might be considering moving back in, he was planning on leaving the house altogether. However, in about one month my IL’s will be visiting and then he will have to move back in our room. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see what he does when they leave. Any suggestions from anyone how to handle this part?
No one either family knows except his oldest brother and his family, another strange choice for him to make because they are not particularly close. He is one of 5 siblings. I have had lunch a couple of times with this SIL, and HUGE surprise – she has been going through the same thing only worse for 4 yrs with his brother. We all thought they were the perfect family and I know H envies them quite a bit. He would be shocked how badly his brother is treating his wife.
H generally treats me with respect but I guess he’s got that MLC fantasy that there might be something better out there. He’s really a good man, but very passive-aggressive and a big conflict avoider. And clearly very good at pretending. I can’t believe I am so bad at reading what he’s really feeling. In fact, last Thanksgiving went so well that I thought we had turned a real corner in our relationship, but when I asked about it, he said he just likes to put on a good front when his family is around. All I can say is that he is one heck of an actor. This really concerns me because I believe I will never be able to trust that anything he shows me is real. How does one ever know? He doesn't talk and his actions seem to be just that, acting.
Thanks again, I will try to contribute to others as well.
I say ignore the letter he was writing. How many times have I written a letter to H and then later regreted sending it? Or kept a draft and realized later it didn't matter enough anymore. I have one in my saved emails right now. I wrote it because it told him something so important to me. Two days later, I remember it and find that it just isn't so important to me anymore. I'm glad I didn't send it.
He sounds confused. Draw him in. Be mysterious. Keep making plans, validate, and make him feel good about himself. Compliment him, even better, compliment him to other people where he can hear you doing it. Don't let his vacilating back and forth bother you at all. He is bound to have "feelings of the moment." What's most important is that he is still there so you can do your best DBing. And maybe he never will feel like moving out.
Stop snooping, and create an environment of openness and honesty and validation where he can feel comfortable coming to you about anything. Be his best friend, and be sexy. Let him see you as the beautiful woman you can be - draw him back in so he will want to stay.
Quote: When this all came down, he said I was his best friend. I just keep focusing on not pushing anything because that seems to work.
This is great! It's a good place to start building your R back up from. Keep this in mind, even when you are the most frustrated, and it will help.
Quote: The separate bedrooms is really bothering me, but I don’t see him making any moves anytime soon.
Try to not let it. Actually, take advantage of it. Have you tried wearing any nice lingerie to bed? That would throw him for a loop, since you aren't even sleeping in the same bed. You could also redo the room to suit your own needs--rearrange all the furniture, paint the walls, etc. Make it your own little space. Maybe put something in there that you've always wanted to, but your H objected to.
Quote: However, in about one month my IL’s will be visiting and then he will have to move back in our room. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see what he does when they leave. Any suggestions from anyone how to handle this part?
Act as if it's all perfectly normal and reasonable. Don't make a big deal out of it at all, it will put your H on edge. And then just let him do what he is comfortable with.
Quote: However, in about one month my IL’s will be visiting and then he will have to move back in our room. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see what he does when they leave. Any suggestions from anyone how to handle this part?
Maybe he's not ready to face it yet. It doesn't matter. My H was the same way. I just respected his wishes, and left it at that. Be supportive of him, and he will appreciate it.
Quote: In fact, last Thanksgiving went so well that I thought we had turned a real corner in our relationship, but when I asked about it, he said he just likes to put on a good front when his family is around.
Don't ask if you don't want to know the answer. As a matter of fact, don't question why he does something you find as progress, because that will make him defensive again.
So what if he was only acting? Sometimes we have to go through the motions before the feelings will follow. My H did this, also--his two brothers just arrived from Kuwait last month, and he suddenly acted like "normal" around them with me. You know what? The more he did it, the more he actually felt it, and realized what he was missing.
Hope this helps! You are actually in a pretty good position.
Rottzilla, you're absolutely right. I have often written things that I would never really give to him. I even was close to being a WAW before this - of course I thought the problem was all him. What a shock to realize he thought it was me!!
I am bothered by something I don't think is a good sign. When this first happened, one time I guess he thought I was asking about dating and he said he thought it was premature to talk about seeing other people. (Well, nice to know, but it wasn't what I was asking at all!) Then, 3 mos after that I see he is very interested in dating. This concerns me greatly (and sort of irks me because he's been so LD throughout our M). I know I have no control over what he does, but I keep thinking it's only a matter of time before he meets someone if he's looking for it. From his letters, it's as if he's looking for a way to be single again for a while, have it be OK to see other people, but maybe keep me in reserve. I guess he's thinking he could see other women but not really be cheating. Oh yes, one of his pros on his apt list was "Beautiful W", women I presume. It's so disheartening to be ready and willing, and all he's thinking about is potential OWs.
OK, I'll stop dwelling now. He has been more connected lately. He did call me last night from his trip, when he just left yesterday morning. Sounded upbeat and happy to talk to me. I'm going to proceed on the assumption that he's still here because he wants to be, because he certainly had a clear field to leave anytime in the past 4 months. I will continue to concentrate on my own changes and being glad I have the opportunity to db for at least 3-4 more months. It's a gift.
Nevanna, that helped a lot. I do think that acting normal (both of us) has led him to feel more normal. My 'delusions' actually help me to act as if our marriage is going to work out and help me be optomistic. Sometimes, I really think I must be crazy to be so calm (but the meds help). Acting as if this will work out has also helped me to be very calm when good things happen too. I did exactly what you suggested when he told me friend could use the apt. I acted as if it was no big deal, and so right for him to charge a much lower rent because he was such a good friend to us. Inside I was doing cartwheels .
I thought that I was the last person on Earth that could do this for even a week, and I think H has also been impressed by how I've handled it. Most of it I owe to what I have learned on this bb. You never know what strength you can find until you dig deep enough. I have really bad times still, but I have learned that even a negative b**** like myself can change.
Looking for advice. Is it possible to try and go through it together? H seems to be somewhat receptive to doing things together, and would probably agree to do some things with me if I initiate. But I'm afraid he will go along just to be polite or out of guilt. Even in the beginning right after bomb dropped, he did say we could still plan on doing things together. I tried this once - a few months ago I asked him to go to Spy Museum one Sat. However, I could tell he only did it to be nice, and although he was very pleasant, we were still in that awkward post-bomb stage. I spun this into a positive by believing that although it wouldn't have been his choice to go, he did it for me and as an attempt to make a positive effort.
Since then our together activities are eating out and watching TV, which is very good I know, and I limit my "hanging around" time. Going out to eat on the weekends really allows us to converse and get to know each other again, almost like dating again - and it allows me to validate lots. The only other thing he's interested in doing is bike riding and I hesitate to push to become involved in what I believe is his "alone" time. And in the evenings he is at AA meetings.
My question is whether it's a good idea to become more involved in the whole mlc experience, sort of join in on the roller coaster ride. Has anyone tried this or is it always better to let them be? Since the bomb, I've let him take the lead initiating any together time. But even when he might agree to do more things together, is it a good idea to gently push for more?
One of the things I have finally learned with my H is that any answer other than an explicit yes, actually means he doesn't want to. "We'll see, "maybe", etc. all really mean no in his PA/conflict avoiding mind.
If Snodderly is out there, I would love any feedback on my H - who's obviously in MLC, thinks he wants out, maybe, thinks he wants to meet someone new, maybe, but still treats me very nicely and spends most of his free time with me!!??
Quote: H seems to be somewhat receptive to doing things together, and would probably agree to do some things with me if I initiate. But I'm afraid he will go along just to be polite or out of guilt.
Again, who care what his reasons are? If he agrees to, and it doesn't seem like you are literally dragging him, then it's a good opportunity to start rebuiling your R. You do need to spend time together in order to get close again.
Quote: ...although he was very pleasant, we were still in that awkward post-bomb stage.
That's okay. You still had fun together. And you have to start somewhere! Nobody said it was going to be easy. Some of the first few times out with my H felt really, really weird.
Quote: Since the bomb, I've let him take the lead initiating any together time. But even when he might agree to do more things together, is it a good idea to gently push for more?
Maybe not so much push, as ask him or offer. If he declines, just leave it at that and go on. He might be flattered if you want to be more involved in his activities.
Quote: The only other thing he's interested in doing is bike riding and I hesitate to push to become involved in what I believe is his "alone" time.
Maybe there are ways to get involved in this aspect without actually going out to ride with him. Tell him after all he's talked about it, it sounds like fun to you, too, and see if he'll help you pick out a bike to buy. Or ask him to recommend a place for you to go biking. That sort of thing. That way you're still interested in him and his hobbies, but not interfering in time alone.
Gotta get out all those feelings somehow, and it's better than directing it at your H.
But, look at it this way--there is still some indecision!
You could also redo the room to suit your own needs--rearrange all the furniture, paint the walls, etc. Make it your own little space. Maybe put something in there that you've always wanted to, but your H objected to.