Now40: Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I really appreciate them.
MPT: Well, woman, I've been wondering where you've been keeping yourself!! So wonderful to hear from you! And just so you know, I hear everything that you have said. But my sexuality and how I feel about it really isn't the issue. Can it improve? Oh yes, absolutely. And at some point, when we get back on track, I'll take your advice to heart. It's really good.
Proske: I am overwhelmed you'd logon just for my sake. Thank you so much for all you have shared. I've read it a few times, and will continue to do so. There's some very good stuff there. I personally think you should share more of yourself here on the boards if you have the time and the inclination.
CeMar: Even though you wrote to Fo3, I still found a measure of comfort for you showing up here and posting. If you have any links to share, please feel free.
Aquarian: Honey, you being alive and in the same boat is a comfort in and of itself!!! I've heard all that you said and it has brought me a great deal of comfort just knowing that someone else is going and has gone through the same 'dip to the dark place' so recently. I'll write more to you later.
And to everyone who has posted here, thank you for taking the time to think about this and give me your thoughtful responses. They DO help.
Honey, Luvhubby and Dave36:
I think you guys have hit it right on the head. Which will segway me into my update.
My oldest son and I were out of town the entire weekend for a hockey tournament. My H stayed home with my youngest son for HIS hockey tournament. Let me just say shortly it was a banner weekend for the teams, and Mama and Papa and so very proud of their cubs!! I'll stop there so I don't go on ad infinitum regarding how brilliant and outstanding my children are.
Got home yesterday about 5 p.m. Unpacked, deccompressed and turned my focus to helping oldest finish his model for history class. We had a ways to go to get in done before this a.m. H was not thrilled that I had not planned on making dinner, so he ordered a pizza. I had to make an emergency Wal-Mart run to pick up some more stuff for said model; by 9:30 it was done, kids were on their way to bed. I'm exhausted and on Friday had started my 'week.' H asked about that when we got to bed. 'So I suppose you started?' As if I had done it to him on purpose.
Then his littany began about how he'd read my thread, how wrong I had it, how pissed he was about it, and he was oh so tempted to get on here and tell his side of the story, but that if he did, you would all be really, really pissed at me. I told him to go for it. By all means, clear it up. He didn't need to worry about me, and I wasn't worried about people getting pissed at me. It happens. Somewhere in the middle there is truth, and quite honestly, THAT'S what I'm interested in.
He went on to tell me that the year isn't what is getting him, it's been the last six weeks, and that the input I had requested from all of you regarding 'all the little things I could do for him' to make him feel loved -- well, I hadn't done any of those things for him. He told me that I have all the power and control and that if *I* feel like it, we ML, but if *I* don't feel like it, then he's outta luck. There is nothing he can do to fix this situation, that's the way it is, that's the way it has always been, and he thinks that sucks. It's useless for him to come home for lunch because he feels like he is burdening me with his space, I never seem glad to see him, and we never ML when he comes home, so why should he? Uhm, let's see. LAST weekend, when we went to my mother's for another hockey tournament trip, he came home early from work hoping to ML but *I* was too busy, but if *I* had wanted to fit it in, it would have been *fit* in.
Let me look this back over and see if I missed anything. Oh. Yes. His love tank is not half-full. His tank is empty. It's beyond empty. His tank doesn't even count, according to him, and no, there is NOTHING he can do to fix any of this.
Just so you all know, there are responses to all of this from my POV, but I'm not going there as it will turn into a he said/she said thing. Useless. We're both right.
Now you may have an inkling why I keep my calendar. He throws out a lot of 'you NEVER do X' for me. So do I keep a calendar for my own sanity. I was thinking that maybe I should jot down the BJs, hugs, passionate kisses, butt squeezes, flirting, sleeping nude moments, and all the other 'little' things, but I think you can all very quickly see how inane that would become.
Anyway, I sit here and think, hmp. Now this is a fine kettle of fish. I understand the 'you give to make yourself feel good, not because you are expecting anything in return.' Let me say, I have no problem with this concept. What I do have a problem with is when someone gets in my face and tells me that what I DO give isn't enough, that I am withholding on my 'giving' on purpose, and if my 'giving' ever gets back on level with what he thinks is adequate, he'll let me know.
All of a sudden, that isn't giving anymore, is it?
And yes, right now, yours truly is sitting in that 'center of the universe seat' and asking herself, now wait a minute, 'what about me?' I KNOW this is a problem. I don't like this feeling, the cesspool of 'poor me.'
He's got his list of complaints, I've got mine. I brought up the numbers list because I have been 'under attack' for a couple of weeks now. It was a complete misstep on my part because you DO NOT deal with anger and resentment with a little anger and resentment of your own. But Jesus Christ, kids, I AM human.
My burning anger is not coming from a missed BJ opportunity, whether I felt I could say no or not, whether I have failed or succeeded -- that is all self-pity crap that will get me friggin NO WHERE. The fact of the matter is, I DO feel good about myself and my efforts. Would it be nice to hear that from him? Absolutely. If I EXPECT to hear it from him and it is not forthcoming, all I have done is created a scenario to feel dissapointed. Which I have done, I will admit.
What this is boiling down to is the fact that there is a PROBLEM, and what I feel is occuring here is that my H is looking at me saying, well, you KNOW what the problem is and until YOU do something to fix that, there will continue to be a problem, and there is NOTHING I can do to fix this. I am at your mercy.
That is complete BUNK. This is a problem for US to fix, and I would like his cooperation. I am NOT going to do it myself because all that does is build resentment in ME, and we continue to go NOWHERE.
This comes down to that line that I believe is going to go down in infamy:
Do you want to be right, or do you want to solve the problem?
I would like to solve the problem, and I attempted to do so last week by emailing my H and asking him to work with me on solving this WITH me. And honey, if you would like to solve the problem WITH me, I am all ears, ready and waiting. If you decide to tell me that you have no idea what to do, you are completely powerless to do anything because *I* control the entire relationship, then we indeed have a major problem. But I really do think there are some people here who'd be glad to listen to you vent and offer some suggestions if you'd like some advice.
Dude...let me clue you in on how bad it could be. I've had sex with my wife exactly twice in the last 12 months.
Give her some credit for her efforts. Give her some love. Stop being a bucket with a 5 inch hole in the bottom that she has to keep trying to fill up, and try to fill up her bucket.
Or, you may find yourself counting the times you've made love to her in the last 12 months on one hand.
Corri's H, You listen to the HairDog! You just don't know what you've got there in Corri. This site is full of HD guys who dream of having a W with as much desire to improve as her. SuperDave
I want to make sure that you haven't taken any of my posts in a negative way. I am in NO WAY trying to bring you down by posting my replies... I've only tried to offer up information that I think a LD spouse would want to hear from someone on the outside, rather than their spouse.
Do I think you aren't trying hard enough? - HELL NO!!!! I sincerely hope you didn't interpret it as that. I'd venture to say that you have tried harder than most of our wives combined. If my wife and I had made love 65 times this year, and I had gotten a dozen or so B.J.'s, I'd be a VERY VERY happy man. Ultimately I do want to have sex/BJ's more than that, but I'm willing to take baby steps towards achieving the ultimate goal, which is a compromise we are both happy and comfortable with.
Corri's husband... if you do happen across this post... take my advice. I know you don't know me, but I think you and I, based on what I've read from your amazingly brilliant wife, are two peas in a pod. However!!! If you are not doing your part to make Corri feel like her efforts are much appreciated and recognize them as that, you are making a big mistake. I haven't made love to my wife since mid-November. I haven't had a B.J. in over a year. I wouldn't even DREAM of asking for one right now. I long for the day that my wife tries to become the woman that your wife is trying to become. But she's going to need your help and she's going to need her tank filled as well.
Quote: What this is boiling down to is the fact that there is a PROBLEM, and what I feel is occuring here is that my H is looking at me saying, well, you KNOW what the problem is and until YOU do something to fix that, there will continue to be a problem, and there is NOTHING I can do to fix this. I am at your mercy.
This is total Crap he is not powerless to help fix the problem. If he is saying this it is becuase he is not will to invest any of his time to fix it.
Michele is right it only takes one person to change a relationship but it does take both people to FIX the Relationship.
What I think needs to happen is you don't need to be right you just need to fix the problem. If you are trying to fix a problem and one person wants to be right while the other one wants to be right there will be no problem fix. Its about swallowing your pride and fixing things.
Corri, I think you have been doing a good job of trying to fix these things. Let him know to come here and vent if he needs to we will all be more than willing to give advice.
Corri, I'm trying to get away from the bb, but I'm afraid I succumbed last week when I really didn't want to do what I ought to have been doing. And there was your post.
I don't think you really did hear what I said to you. Not completely. Yeah, you and your H do have some significant issues for which you are both responsible. I expect those issues have very little to do with sex per se, much less your attitude toward your own sexuality. Some of them have to do with both of you looking at each other through soot-covered glasses. More about that later.
You've got your thinking about sex all wrapped up in your marriage and your H's love tank. This has clearly not been a self-sustaining motivation. In fact it seems to be draining you. I think that is like a cheeseless tunnel for motivation. I'm strongly encouraging you to stop focusing on the connection between sex and your H. It keeps pulling you back into your H's issues. Focus on sex and just you. Do it for you. It's a powerful, sustainable motivation. It doesn't require someone else's positive response to keep you going. This issue of "I'm doing more for you than you for me" becomes a non-issue.
For heaven's sake, don't wait for
Quote: ...when we get back on track, I'll take your advice to heart
to get going with this! It was this sentence that I knew you didn't get what I was saying to you. This is an essential key to changing your whole perspective on what you're doing when it comes to sex and why. A different tunnel to go down, a 180 in your thinking.
You've stated frequently how SSM opened your eyes to how much your H was hurting and you felt awful. Not wanting him to hurt or feel unloved. You've felt guilty. It's great that you were able to open your heart to feel his hurt. Now what about you? How has your lack of interest in sex affected your happiness?
If you understand what I'm saying, you'll feel power and strength coursing through your veins, your mood will lift, and it won't matter anymore what your H does. You'll want sex to stop having so much control over you and you will be in control of it. Yes, I know you're "LD," but sex is still controlling your life and happiness as much as it controls the "HD" person, just the flip side of the coin.
I'm not talking about turning yourself into an "HD" person. You won't. I'm talking about turning your sexuality into something that works for YOU rather than an obstacle to be overcome.
And Dave36 and I are on the same page regarding how your H won't want to miss out on being a part of it or risk doing something that causes him to lose you, but that won't be the reason you're doing it.
Forget trying to make him feel loved though sex. You really can't make a person feel loved, for any length of time anyway, until the person really wants to give up feeling angry and resentful. (BTW, this whole thing about "I don't feel loved" seems like a good way to control the situation. Keeps the other person forever working and struggling to "make" the person feel loved and yet never achieving the goal.)
Both of you need to be asking yourselves whether your perspective of your spouse is really based in reality, or is it based on some distortions in your own thinking. Does s/he really not love you? Is s/he really a selfish bast#rd/bi*ch? Is s/he really deliberately trying to make you suffer or just using you? Is that how s/he treats other people? Is s/he a really good person when it comes everything else in life, but s/he turns into the Evil Queen/King of Darkness when it comes to you?
Take the soot-covered glasses off, both of you. You're married to a person. A person with strengths and weaknesses, good days and bad. Someone who, just like you and everybody else, is trying to figure out his/her way through life. Someone who is going to fail you sometimes, just as you will fail him/her. Respond to him/her when they fail the way you would like to be treated when you fail. The same with when they succeed. Don't make it so hard for each other. Be gentle. You'll like yourself better.
Lecture over.
Best wishes, MPT
P.S. My H's reaction (paraphrased): What if the whole sex thing doesn't have anything at all to do with him feeling loved? What if it's about him being pissed off because he doesn't get to do something that he REALLY likes doing? She doesn't like it as much as he does, so she says no sometimes. He can't do it without Corri so he's mad at her. But it's all gotten turned into this thing about love and blown all out of proportion. Maybe he's just mad.
Just thought I'd share the no nonsense perspective of my H.
Ok, I just gotta jump in here with my vote. Hopefully your hub will read these, hey it would be great to get his side of the story too. Maybe you’re not as wonderful with him as you are with all us DB misfits! Although....
The little lady and I haven’t MADE LOVE (I just enjoy the sound of that!) in 6 months, prior to that (roughly the last 15 years) we averaged 1-2 per month, so maybe 12-15 times a year. Probably sounds pretty good to those that have been on a twice a year diet (like the one my wife has put me on lately).
The reality is that what we get is so far from what most of us HDrs NEED (Not want, NEED) I’d say at this point I NEED it every week and more than that would be healthier for my emotional and physical well-being but this will be my boundary when it comes time for me to express my needs (I’m supposed to wait patiently until we’ve dealt with her issues first.)
If we didn’t eat for 6 months it would be very obvious that a need wasn’t met because we would be dried up dead mummies. Ignoring the emotional NEED of sex is not quite as obviously damaging as ignoring the physical need of food but it is incredibly damaging and painful. But the need for intimacy is an invisible killer, you can’t directly see a person’s love well drying up. On the outside they appear physically fine. Their behaviour is a symptom of what’s happening inside their heart and mind.
Now, with all that said, if you are really putting all the effort in quality and quantity for your hubby then he does need to realize that he is getting so much more than the majority of the rest of us starving souls. You definitely deserve more appreciation for your efforts. I would be in heaven if my wife was as willing and proactive as you are. I know I speak for the rest of the HDrs here.
Now, with that said...Here’s a reason, not an excuse:
He may be still hurting from the past starvation, even though you are giving him so much more than before, it is likely not yet enough for HIS love tank. Your 134% more effort may be 13.4% of his tank. Some of us have bigger tanks than others, some run on unleaded, some diesal, some of us are jets that need rocket fuel. Some, like my wife, went from being a Concord to a bicycle with one of those snap on motors. Did we pay attention to which kind of vehicle we were getting when we got married?
It’s just that you can not imagine the deprivation that he has gone through; it can be permanently damaging to the relationship, I believe. When you reject his approaches he’s terrified, terrified of seeing the ghost of the old Corri, the one that didn’t want him (means to him=didn’t love him).
Maybe he’s been trained to jump up and down in order to get noticed. My wife didn’t “notice” (or at least admit) this lack of connection was a problem until I made it an issue and was willing to leave over it. She still doesn’t think I should be making such a big deal over it...but that’s another story.
What’s the point of my ranting? Corri, you may have to put EVEN more than is conceivable for you, making up for lost days. You may be making love 65 times a year (which would be awesome for most of us starving fellows--and ladies) but how many times in the past did you make him go without?
Mr. Corri (husband): Man, recognize what an incredible woman you’ve got, start appreciating her big time, be patient with her (she’s just a sexual toddler, that is, she’s just learning), start filling HER tank more--she will respond by putting hi octane into your engine.
Honey, if you are reading this, this is what *I* want from you. I want you to read:
The Five Love Languages
What Women Want Men to Know
The part of the SSM book for HDs about their LD spouses.
I don't care which you read first; if you want me to read them with you, chapter by chapter each night, followed by a ML session or other type of contact, that's cool; but I want to see a book in your hands within a week (or at least proof of order). Once the books are read, then I want you to try your very best to put into practice what you have learned. This is very, very important to me, and I hope you can find it within you to make this effort for me.
No, no, no, I didn't take your posts in a negative way at all. I don't feel attacked by ANY of you... I swear it. I was pretty soppy last week, but even then I didn't take it personal. You all are trying to help me and I love you all for it. Yeah, that sometimes means you all say things I might not want to hear -- sh!t, truth hurts sometimes. Hey, I can dish it out, and I can take it (I may stomp a little while taking it, but I can still take it). Just takes a little time to soak in, you know?
And there was your post.
