THanks for asking! It's interesting that I never asked myself this question. When I tried to formulate what my perfect marriage would be, I realised that my own dead marriage was very imperfect -- just how imperfect I never understood until now.
My Perfect Marriage
1. Eat breakfast at home together - drink coffee and read paper together at least several times a week.
2. Do the grocery shopping together occasionally. Not a mad dash through the store to get it over with but wandering up and down the aisles to see what's new.
3. Cook dinner together once a week or so, while drinking wine.
4. Enjoy dinner out as a couple with friends -- mine and/or his and/or ours. Spend a few hours with friends over a meal.
5. Take care of the house together. This means decorating it, maintaining it.
6. Hang out at home together some on weekends.
7. Take weekend trips to beautiful places nearby. Stay at an inn.
8. Take summer trips abroad.
9. Take walks around the neighborhood together year round.
10. Share some sort of spiritual life together. Maybe go to church together.
11. SEX: (I know this is really the part you're interested in CeMar) Enjoy massages and body rubs several times a week, make love in a leisurely way.
1. I can count on the fingers of both hands the number of breakfasts we shared at home. X did not drink coffee and always had to rush out to the gym or to work in the AM.
2. We shopped together a handful of times in our marriage and then it was the mad dash variety. This to me is analagous to duty sex.
3. Almost never cooked dinner together. I came home to an empty house almost every night, dealt with the kids, made the dinner alone, he came home late to eat it, usually after it was cold. He does not drink wine, or really any other kind of alcohol.
4. He hated spending time with my friends. He is somewhat socially phobic. If my friends were there when he came home, he briefly said hello and went into another part of the house. Sometimes he was downright hostile to them. He felt uncomfortable around most of my friends.
5. I did all the housework, all the home repair and maintenance with the exception of changing lightbulbs. I mowed the lawn, planted and maintained the garden, painted rooms, hung pictures, picked out furnishings. Did most of the cooking and almost all the grocery shopping. I felt he used our home as a motel.
6. Neither X nor I was good at hanging out at home. Too restless. Working on that alone now.
7. We did trips away by ourselves a couple of times a year. Hard with young kids and his workaholism.
8. No trips abroad. X didn't like to travel outside of US. All our trips were his choice -- fine with me til I learned that I wasn't hardy enough out on the trail with a backpack strapped to my back to go sleep in the wilderness for a few days.
9. We were good at walking! X often didn't have time (too busy working) but we both enjoyed it when we did.
10. I am a church-goer, X is not. The outdoors is his church. We didn't share too much in that regard, although our values about most things were very similar.
11. Sex was the same-old same-old, twice a week, mostly duty sex on my part. Totally inadequate in X's eyes.
12. We did have great conversation together. I know we both still miss that. We were well matched intellectually, both of us love to read, we shared ideas. This was probably our area of greatest strength.
So there you have it. As you can see, the most important things to me are companionship and I notice that there was very little of that in my marriage.
I'm sure that you are right about the companionship and I have been working on that myself for some time. It is quite difficult for a man to be a companion because you have to tune in to femail things and stay tuned in. I notice that you mention shopping and I admit I hate it and actually make it a miserable experience for W as I end up trailing along contributing nothing and continually looking at my watch. I will try harder. I love to talk and my W is most definitely my best friend. We have a large extended family and I have noticed that if the conversation turns to family gossip her attention really rises and we have a lot of lovely eye contact and shared opinions particularly regarding methods of bringing up children. I think that HDs (myself included) get obsessed with the sex they are not getting and that overwhelms everything else.
Amazing that you could be so specific about what the perfect marriage would be for you. I have sat and thought about it, but could not seem to come up with such specifics. Maybe that should be a project for me.
Funny how you mention shopping as so unpleasurable. Dr. Harley of "His Needs/Her Needs" uses shopping to try to explain desire to couples. Would a women want to spend all day Saturday shopping with her husband who is "WILLING" to shop with her, or would she rather spend the day shopping with her best girlfriend who "DESIRES" to shop with her. It is clear that the shopping experience will be far better if the person you are with "DESIRES" to shop. Normally shopping with the "WILLING" Husband will end up not being so pleasurable, and might eventually lead to shopping "AVERSION" with the husband. Now does this make it a little clearer how important "DESIRE" is to a relationship?
I guess I'm surprised that anyone would find my ramblings of interest.
In my case, I was dumped by X from what I thought was a wonderful marriage. He had an affair and could not get the feelings back. He had been miserable for years about the lack of passion in our marriage, unbeknownst to me. It's taken me a long time to let go of my marriage. I still miss X. But I'm slowly improving.
One thing that's helped me improve is by observing other marriages that I think are good. I have some neighbors who amaze me. They share pretty equally in child care. H never seems to resent it, in fact he probably spends more time and has more patience with the kids. He and W make about the same amount of money and money is tight. In my case, the fact that X earned so much more gave him an out for spending lots more time on the job than at home.
In my case, I always worked and made more than X during the period he was building his career. When he finally got all his credentials, he made lots more than me. He was always a socially phobic workaholic and I never minded that much -- it gave me time to continue my life with friends, etc. But when he was at home, he wanted my full attention and lots of affirmation, affection, admiration. I guess I *did* resent on some level that I had to drop everything when he finally showed up. But I was unaware of my resentment.
My neighbors DO so much more together than X and I did. For one thing, they have friends they share. People come and go in their house in a comfortable fashion. I am much more extroverted than X. I need people around to feel good. He preferred just me. That was a major source of conflict between us. My need for other people made him feel unloved.
This couple shares in household projects: remodeling, yard work, cooking. I always did it all alone. They go away with other couples for weekends in the summer. They have family reunions with BOTH sides of the family on a regular basis. We saw lots of X's family (live nearby) and very little of mine. Again, X felt uncomfortable around people. In 17 years of marriage, X NEVER visited my mother with me -- she lived in a place he didn't like! He NEVER visited my brother with me -- ditto. I made all these trips alone or with the kids.
These neighbors are able to just hang out in their house. I am so envious of their comfort level. This comfort level must mirror some internal comfort level. I think each of them is comfortable with who they are. X was not happy with himself and there were areas where I wasn't comfortable with myself.
Quote I guess I'm surprised that anyone would find my ramblings of interest.
Actually in reading all the posts from different people helps me to shed some light on what my LD H might be feeling, or where he might be coming from. I have gotten some good ideas from people on these message boards.
Quote One thing that's helped me improve is by observing other marriages that I think are good.
I often see couples that do alot together. This was one of the things that angered me. H was a firefighter when we met, was gone every other day for 24 hours. I got used to doing things on my own. When he retired I would beg him to do things with me, but all he wanted to do was stay home and watch TV. Early in our relationship he became addicted to alcohol. I took the verbal abuse and everything else that goes with that for years. It wasn't until I finally went to Alanon meetings for a while and decided I did not want this anymore and threatened him with leaving if he didn't stop that woke him up.
Also early in our marriage (I would say maybe 3 yrs or so) he began to have impotency problems. It never failed, at the height of his intoxication would be when he would want to prove his manhood, which almost always failed. I know he had to be feeling pretty low so I suggested he go see a dr. It wasn't until he stopped drinking and found he had a problem even when he was sober that he decided to go to the drs. Asked me to go with him even, which of course I did. Wanted to support him however I could. Well they did a battery of tests which showed a slight lower testosterone than should have been. So he started therapy for that. When that did not produce results he refused to go back. So we continued to sleep in separate beds (he had left my bed years before) until viagra came out. He went back to drs, tried it, and he complained the whole time about headaches, it didn't work. We had a serious talk several months later about it all and I got the message across how unhappy I was and how it was spilling over into other parts of our relationship. He was understanding about it all and said he wanted to try, so I gave it my full attention again, but his efforts only lasted maybe a week and a half. Right back to the SOS. It was then I had decided to walk away, but he suffered a heart attack and I could not leave him when he needed someone the most, so I didn't even tell him what I had decided. He had another heart attack after that and eventually a double heart bypass which he had complications from and was off work almost a year. In order to keep what we had I worked 2 jobs for almost 8 months until he could get back to work. Now this was almost 5 yrs ago. I have from that point just tried to throw myself into other things to keep me busy. We were to a point of living like roommates, each in their respective rooms
About a week before New Years he asked me if I was happy. Told him no..... well, surprise, he told me he wasn't either and we talked a little. He said he wanted to make things better between us and it was at that time I asked him to read the SSM book. We are still in separate beds. I think we have slept together 3 times since new years. And I mean SLEEP literally. A little bit of cuddling, he at least does kiss ( a peck) me good night now and once in a while I get a hug. He has been making attempts to go grocery shopping with me sometimes and has actually met a girlfriend of mine I have known about 4 years and he has never met I know I have alot of resentment towards all the past things that have happened, and I'm sure I have done things he didn't like. We never really talked a whole lot except for general things. I would like to go to counseling, but last time we tried to make things better he refused. Said he didn't need a shrink. And the book is still in the same place its been in for the past 3 days. I have a feeling he will not read it. I know these are baby steps, but frankly with everything that has happened in the past I don't care if we make it. I don't have any idea of my feelings for him. I know that sounds horrible, but its the truth.
Quote This couple shares in household projects: remodeling, yard work, cooking.
We share household duties, always have, he has never had a problem with that.
Quote They go away with other couples for weekends in the summer. They have family reunions with BOTH sides of the family on a regular basis. We saw lots of X's family (live nearby) and very little of mine. Again, X felt uncomfortable around people. In 17 years of marriage, X NEVER visited my mother with me -- she lived in a place he didn't like! He NEVER visited my brother with me -- ditto. I made all these trips alone or with the kids.
We do not take trips together. We used to, but they were always for the purpose of showing the dogs. We have 3 (had 4 but one was put to sleep Feb 14 ) My mother was pretty much an invalid growing up and H accepted the fact that we had to take care of her. We visit with his 3 children from his 1st marriage and occasionally my son comes to visit or I, alone, go visit him. My son and H never really got along, but tolerated each other.
Quote These neighbors are able to just hang out in their house. I am so envious of their comfort level. This comfort level must mirror some internal comfort level. I think each of them is comfortable with who they are. X was not happy with himself and there were areas where I wasn't comfortable with myself.
I do hope all is as it seems. We don't really know many of our neighbors, but the ones we do know think we are a happy couple, and its far from the truth. Sad to say.
Well, I have rambled long enough. Sorry this was so long. Think with all the topics being brought up I felt the need to tell some of my story. I do have one question for you guys though?
Do you have resentment about the way things are going in your marriage, and how do you get over that?
Carlotta, I have a question for you and I hope it doesn't come off the wrong way...but you first state that you were dumped from what you thought was a "wonderful marriage", and then you go on to detail all the reasons why it wasn't satisfying to you. What gives?
Is it possible that you DID hear your husband's complaints about sex and passion but just did not place the same importance on them (understandably) and therefore missed the boat? It is obvious that he missed the boat in many other ways, but I think that you are setting yourself up for a recap of this situation, in your next R, if you continue to say that it was all "unbeknownst" to you.
Carlotta, that was amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
