Big update. With some confusion..... kind of a spin, but I'm sorting this out...right now.. positives and ? as well
Great interactions w. H and then ML last night, after that- HUGE R talk starts...... Trying to sort things out and see clearly right now. H approached it all more logically, rather than emotionally. Has had thoughts in his head over past 4 -5 mo and started spilling it all out. H sees our R and M as a flow chart with possible options we could take. 1) stay M 2) stay "together", but D for no financial liability and no M tied down/'societal' obligations 3) D and separate for good. H said right away he wanted to "stay together" so he was looking at options #1 and #2. He wanted to know if I saw any other "options" and literally mapped out a flow chart on paper- lol! Talked a lot about society/preconceptions of "M" and what H didn't like about that. H said he liked me and wanted to be with me, but didn't want the "institution of M" So, we get to talking more and I seemingly end up convincing him he has no rules and restrictions being "M". H says he thinks this should be a joint decision, whatever "we" decide. Wow. At the end of the convo, H asks me what I want, and I say #1, but I don't think we would have to feel restricted, etc..Then, H agrees that "we" have chosen #1(stay M, but our definition of that is open ended - but we didn't really go into details about exactly what this means. Some of the ideas he threw out in a jumble were the occasional sleeping with other people, wearing rings or not? Not calling each other H or W? His BIGGEST ones were not feeling like he would screw me financially(his provider/guilt burden) and feeling like I acted like his mother. Those two he focused on the most. Then, he said it was impt to come and go as we please and if he wants to go out drinking w. friends, should be ok(I never said it wasnt'- silly stuff like that) The other (one-nighter or ring) junk was just said in passing.
So, we were both drinking and I think I may have gotten a little too defensive about my points - and perhaps that's why H threw out some daggers? (OW, faults about me from the past) I hope this stuff is more talk than reality.... likely if he felt "attacked" or not fully heard out on his points perhaps. At the end of the convo, he even said "basically I don't want to be married to my mother" Like that's what this was all about?! Of course, H contradicted himself several times in the convo. At one point he explained that his idea about "staying together" as a couple, but getting a D to release each other from financial burden was about him thinking the money sitch would be better if things were not shared. He didn't want to screw me. I pointed out that actually moneywise there are more benefits being M.... he actually saw my point and that's what helped sway him to go with choice #1. H even admitted that a lot of what he didn't like about us in the past, was indeed in the past and now the present and future are different! Breakthrough there..... Think it's really all about the classic "control" issues.. If I let him feel like he's free, he might not take initiative to really act out a ton, and actually be drawn closer to me? That's what my DB seems to have done so far... BTW, Thank you MIL for being nazi control freak on H when he was growing up! NOT.
But, overall, I'm sitting here thinking- whoah, did I just reconcile with H?! We're still sleeping in separate beds, but H dropped comment about maybe sleeping in my bed at one point in the night. Said he liked my hugs and cuddles too.
H just called me at work today, to tell me he was going shopping, what he was buying and details about his own bank account deposit he's making. Already thinking "shared" Like if he doesn't think I "expect" things from him, he's more open to share and treat me as a partner?
Master the self-fulfilling prophecy.. Act 'as if' it's going to happen and make it be!!
Wow rj, this all sounds great!! I'm so happy for you!! Doesn't seem like there were many negatives in there, or if so they were just areas to be worked on.
Again, I think H is just throwing out one nighters and rings - as you said- because of his control issues. He is asserting his independence. I wouldn't say yes to anything I didn't feel comfortable with, but I would definitely let him talk about most of it. As with my H, as long as the cage door is open, he never uses it.
At one point, you will have to ask him why he feels it necessary to be with other women. Perhaps you can do those things he thinks he will be getting. Like some men fantasize about women of other nationalities because they actually think they are different in bed, like other flavors or something.
It's funny, I like to make an analogy between my H and my dogs. In my kitchen, I have two dog kennels. The dogs sleep in there, their beds are in there, and they eat in there to stop them from fighting over food. When I go to work, their kennel doors are left open. Yet, if I sneak into the house, they will be sleeping in their kennels, and they look as if they haven't gotten up all day. While I am cooking, they lay in their kennels, etc.
My H always says "If I want to go out with the boys w/o you, I don't want a fight." (Something his XW did to him) I say, sure, you're free to go. Do you know how many times in 7 years together he has gone out w/o me? Four. He always winds up inviting me along. Why? Because I am a super cool chick and lots of fun, just like you are.
Why on earth would your H want to go anywhere w/o you? Just make it clear, if he goes out for a night with the boys, so will you. Not tit for tat, just so that you are not sitting at home. Then, have a better time than he does. Works every time for me.
thanks everyone! Feeling more objective about the R talk I think. I see underneath all the junk. H's "anti-M" issues really seem to center around control, and not feeling good enough about himself. Think he is pretty sensitive inside(though he'd never admit) and it shows through with the dagger type comments. He did talk a lot in circles, too which showed his confusion over what "M" really means, and more so- that rather than "M", it is his own insecurities that are haunting him. At one point in the convo, he was reacting to my "persuasiveness" by telling me I'm gonna have to be the one to tell his whole family why we're together, but not acting like a traditional married couple. Like it makes about as much sense to get a D and still be together as the other option? Circles. He believes in "traditional M" that's his values, 2 sentences later, but no he doesn't like "traditional M". About the money, he admitted that he feels like a failure and there's no guarantee of his success, having to 'provide' for someone else only makes his blow feel worse.(He's been unemployed for 5 months now) And if he's in debt and what if a creditor came after me, that's not fair for me. So that's what was behind the "let's D to release financial burden from each other" His lack of confidence in ever being a success. I told him it wouldn't be long before he was successful, and he angrily accused me of wearing rose-colored glasses- etc.. But somehow I got through saying it would be easier on funds if we were M, rather than living together with lots of separate bills.
Then about the OW/free talk- when we ML last night, H wasn't sure that he measured up-(ongoing issue-has had back injury a few years ago) So, it's his insecurity that he's not good enough in the bedroom for me and so he's got to act like he IS hot, he can get OW, OW will want him- to pump up his ego- push away those feelings of not being good enough. It was funny, b/c he even admitted that I would be the one making out way better on the non-monogamy thing.. and I would call H more of a LD person, too.
Hopefully, the more he starts trusting me again, and the "new" me- the negatives and insecurities will start to fade. And esp when he gets new job.... So, I am hopeful this stuff will pass. Will update again soon!
Master the self-fulfilling prophecy.. Act 'as if' it's going to happen and make it be!!
Find the more I act independent, on my own schedule and hot, fun, give H space, let him come to me- the more he draws in closer to me. Really good steps yesterday.
Since I moved in, I've been in and out, doing my own thing. When I came home last night, H was happy to see me- had a bunch of stuff to show me in his studio! Then, H has started coming to "my" bed, for cuddling cats and me too. It's obvious he missed us! He did admit in words a couple weeks back that he had been lonely at night, even.. Think I owe the cats for helping since they immediately chose "my" bed over his to sleep and lounge in, lol. H jumps in the bed and hints for a massage. Then cuddles and ML , and H acted even warmer emotionally than previous times. This is big step, showing his intimate behaviors/mannerisms to me again. Loved my massage, acting loving toward me. Afterwards, he calls me hon! (just like he used to, this is HUGE). H talking baby talk to the cat(he loves the cat SO much), and teasing me, ganging up on me with cat- even said "nope, I won't ever get favored by cat again(future reference- H is speaking of us all together!) Lots of flirty stuff from him. Still sleeps in "his" bed at night, but honestly I don't think that will last too long. Took him 1 day after I moved in to come lounge in "my" bed I left up all H's decorations in "my" room, too(he didnt clear it out)- so he feels super comfortable coming in there. Not to mention cats prefer "my" room! Told me everything he's doing today down to the last detail!
Master the self-fulfilling prophecy.. Act 'as if' it's going to happen and make it be!!
Still reading and learning from you! I really feel that you have mastered the db thing with respect to your h and I want to "lift" your attitude, your game plan and your growth.
My h will move back in for a week...I am very nervous but I will also make sure to apply the principles and practices that I see working for you.
Find the more I act independent, on my own schedule and hot, fun, give H space, let him come to me- the more he draws in closer to me.
I find this is true for me and my H as well! He tends to pull me closer if I just kind of concentrate on living my own life (in a fun, happy way, not an "I'll show you" way). It's great to hear about your positives. Keep it up! Hugs, Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
He always winds up inviting me along. Why? Because I am a super cool chick and lots of fun, just like you are. 
I left up all H's decorations in "my" room, too(he didnt clear it out)- so he feels super comfortable coming in there. Not to mention cats prefer "my" room! Told me everything he's doing today down to the last detail!