Where do I start…the beginning i suppose. My H (53) and I (51) have been married for almost 25 years. We have 2 D’s. 19 and 17. I hope this isn’t too long.
About 3-4 years ago he came to me and told me that he wasn’t happy. He didn’t know what he wanted to do. He wasn’t ready to leave. He refused to go to therapy but we talked through things and came up with some ways to try and improve and he stressed to me how important his band was and it bothered him that I complained about it all the time.
So taking a step back, the band has always been the biggest argument we have. It has always come first. When the kids were little, I always felt like he needed to spend more time with us on the weekends. We both work. Fridays were always band practice and we’d usually hang out as a family on Saturdays after he woke up from a long night out. Not much time for date nights. And he was having gigs on Saturdays like 2-3 weekends a month. I admit, I was mean. I was jealous of his time with the band and when we did get a night out I would ruin it by saying something stupid. But he wouldn’t change either. It’s on us both.
So after the I’m not happy conversation I thought, okay, the kids are getting older, they don’t want to hang out with us anyway, so I’m going to stop this. He also stressed to me that the band was an outlet for him that he needed, kinda like me working out. Okay, i get it, I was stupid. I stopped. I felt like I’d grown up a little too.
We started to hang out more, going and watching other bands, have dinner together, etc. And bam, in January he BD. I was shocked and in despair, the usual. I thought things were getting better! He told me that he thought I had stopped complaining about the band just to keep the peace. Really? That’s what you think of me. He told me he loved me but didn’t love me. I’m 53 and I need to be happy. You’re going to find someone else and be so much happier. I’m not the same person I was. I asked him if there was someone else and he said no. You get it. I told him I loved him and wanted to work it out. He won’t go to therapy and told me that I just need to understand it’s over.
I did all the wrong things of course. And I did dig into his phone. He’s always been very protective of his phone but one morning I got in and found a text message that made me almost throw up between the singer in the band (F) and him. I asked him about her and he said they are just friends. We always have conversations like that. Well, I’m pretty suspicious that they are either having an EA or PA. I forgot to mention that he told me she was getting a D a few days before BD.
He doesn’t want to leave until June when our D(17) is done with school. She’s struggling with school and with her anxiety and ADD I’m really worried how she is going to deal with this. But he says oh don’t worry the kids will be fine. You just have to tell them the right way. Is it wrong that I want him to tell the kids with me in the room and he takes responsibility? He wants to make it sound like it’s both of us.
And he only wanted me tell one person other than my therapist. Glad I started that right away. He’s says he’s not talking to anyone about his, but I’m not sure I believe him.
Somehow I found the DB website and read DR. And I’ve been trying to implement different things as well as the last resort technique. As soon as I think things are better they aren’t. I get the feeling that everything I’m do he thinks I’m doing just so we get along until June. He’s acting like nothing has changed. Same sense of humor same conversations. Still sleeping in the same bed, which might be just for the kids. I don’t know what to do. I’ve been trying to GAL. Pick up some old hobbies. We don’t fight. The only thing we’ve fought about lately is his “expense” credit card that he is supposed to only use for work. I found that he’s been making multiple large payments a month to this card. He said he’s stop using it but I don’t know if that’s the case. I have no idea where this money is going. I think I’m going to drop it for now because it’s obviously a push.
Any suggestions you amazing people have would be awesome. You guys get it unlike a few friends. And I need to see this through your eyes. I first thought this was a MLC but now I’m wondering if WAH. I’m reading DR for the third time with that in mind. I don’t want my marriage to end.
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Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I am so sorry you are here, but you will find a wealth of information to read that will help you along the way. The posters are at various stages of dealing with their spouses who are either in MLC or Walk Aways.
First and foremost, you are not at fault for his thinking that he is unhappy. Sounds to me like he is on the "edge" of having a MLC. He's the right age and is using the band as a way to take the edge off the feelings of unhappiness. Has something happened in the last year or so? Death in the family or a friend/co-worker? Has he had a health issue or lost a job? Generally, something will trigger the feelings that he is having.
I suggest that you read everything that you can about depression and MLC. Since he is on the "edge" of a crisis, you cannot do a thing about it. If you attempt to stop the crisis, he will go into another one at a later date. I know that this is very difficult for you. I would listen and observe. Do not offer up advice unless he asks for it. He may talk about moving out and may not do it unless he is pressured by you and his home life. The best thing you can do is leave him alone. Try to keep the focus on you and your family.
If you haven't already done this, set up a separate bank account for yourself. Check the credit cards and if they are joint, you need to think about removing your name from them. Why? Because if he is getting ready to enter into a full-blown crisis, he will not hesitate to spend money like it is water and may remove you from the accounts. Some do this and make it very difficult for the left behind spouse to get any money from their spouses. Once they enter the crisis, they become very self-centered and selfish, and it is all about them. You, your family, pets and home will no longer be his world. His world will become a younger version of himself until his crisis is over.
Again, keep the focus on you and your family. Listen and observe. If you listen closely, he may give you clues as to where his head is at presently. Protect your assets. Do not think for one minute that he's going to continue as he has been in paying the bills, etc., once he's in crisis. You will become the sane one who will need to be strong throughout this crisis storm.
Continue to come here to post. Do not share any information that you have or receive about the crisis with him. This is your safe place to post.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you Job. I feel very blessed that I found you guys.
The credit card that he has been using is in his name only. So I have no access to it. However, I have been taking screen shots and recording everything I can because he is paying this card off with our joint account. Even the cash he takes out of our joint account I’m keeping track of. And I’ve made screen shots of all our statements. I’m not sure what to do about the separate account. The L that I had a consultation with told me not to do anything with the accounts yet. That everything is digital. So I’m not sure what to do there? I had a consult just to get my questions answered. Particularly about this.
We’ve talked to a mediation lawyer already and he’s looking at apartments. I don’t know if he has one set up and I haven’t asked. I know he applied for one.
His father had cancer around fall of 2019 but has been cancer free since then. At the time of BD his brother was going to be tested for cancer. We found out a month ago he does have cancer but caught it very early and surgery should take care of it. When I tried to talk to him about it he seemed very positive. The only other thing that’s happened is our D(19) going to college.
I’m trying to stop asking questions and letting him come to me. He still treats me like I’m his “friend” but not wife. He’s comment on things he knows I’m interested in and talks to me about his work. He asks how my day was and if I had fun with the friends I was hanging out with. We still watch tv together, do family dinners, go to our D(17)’s activities. I’m just so confused.
I agree, folks who been through it, get it. On that note, there are many kind and compassionate folks here with much hard earned wisdom.
I see you’ve been reading DR and working on implementing the LRT. This is a good thing, H needs to feel what it will be like, is like, to lose you before he will consider changing his direction. He needs to feel the loss.
H is 53. The time of another life transition. We all traverse stages of life - childhood / adolescence / adulthood / golden years. The mid life stage can be quite problematic for some folks. This particular stage stirs up one’s past, one’s demons, like no other stage. And, unlike previous stages and transitions, one cannot “simply” rebury uncovered traumas and hurts. Mortality, family, work, responsibilities, lost youth, missed opportunities, regrets, and so on, all burst forth.
Most folks do manage to transit this time. It not easy, there is plenty of reconciling of one’s life to this point, their accolades, their regrets, and soul searching. Folks exit this transition peaceful or agitated. It depends on many past factors, how they’ve lived, and their coping skills.
For some people this midlife transition is a lot more difficult. They lash out a lot more than average. They struggle a lot. Still, eventually, they find their way. Usually with some destruction along the way.
And for the very unfortunate few, this time brings up such unrealized past torments and traumas, they enter a crisis. They get stuck and run from their past.
A full blown midlife crisis is a truly horrible thing. It is consuming. The poor soul engulfed in such is upon a terrible journey of trying to come to terms with long ago traumas from a person who was in a position of authority over their young self. Those horrific traumas were impossible for such an immature mind to grasp, so they buried them. The only defence mechanism available to the youngster. Unfortunately, things buried alive, come back to haunt.
A MLC unleashes significant damage and collateral damages. The MLCer runs and partakes in all manner of wild behaviours. They spend money, drink, do drugs, get fast cars, get tattoos, dress differently, start acting/talking like a teenager, and so on. They become a teen with a huge bank account. They toss aside responsibility and accountability. They become brash and bold, and about the worst teenager you can imagine. All in a foolish and fruitless effort to relive and regain their youth. To somehow have a do-over.
Realize, the seeds for a crisis are planted long ago. Long before you, their spouse, ever met them. The MLCer does not know the cause of their present day torment and turmoil. So much buried from their past. These folks are emotionally stunted from time of that trauma(s) and need to grow up from there/then. They have very poor coping skills and mechanism, all leading to this consuming emotional storm.
I pray your H is only having a difficult transition.
Be H having a difficult transition, or entering a crisis, only time will tell.
Be he a MLCer or WAH. Again, time will tell.
Your path, your journey is the same regardless. Focus on you. Give H lots of time and space. Let him feel what he needs to feel. He needs to hit rock bottom before he will change. Very few will change until the pain of not changing outweighs the pain of continuing along.
You suspect a EA or PA. It might be F, the band’s singer, or someone else. It is staggering how commonplace affairs are. Give it little notice. An affair means nothing. They are built upon lies and deceits; which makes a poor foundation for a relationship. It’s like trying to build on sand. Illicit relationships take enormous energies to maintain.
An affair is a band-aid for some deep personal defect. The cheater usually tries to blame the faithful spouse. Ignore any of that BS. It is pure gaslighting and projection. H is presently unable to blame himself and will incorrectly assign/project his faults upon you. He will rewrite your history and craft his narrative. Craft justifications for his course.
Again, you know better. Do not engage in his spew or his make believe. Do not take his bait. Focus on you.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
As soon as I think things are better they aren’t.
Oh yes. It crazy-making. Give him time and space. Focus on you and your daughters. Live and love your life, like H isn’t there.
H has told you he wants a divorce. And wants to hang around until June; until D is finished school. That’s pretty common for these folks.
Move him out of the master bedroom. Tell him, he is sleeping elsewhere. In the spare room, or on the couch in the basement. Does matter where, just not in the MB. Lots of spouses try to push the LBS out. Nope! H wants out of the marriage, he’s the one to leave the bedroom.
And no cake eating. No sex. Especially if you suspect an affair. These folks love to have their cake and eat it to. They really feel they can have the best of both worlds. Let reality slap him.
Stop doing his laundry. Or his dishes. Or his meals. Let him feel the consequences of his choices.
No arguing. No fighting. Just you focusing on you. You living your life. You moving forward.
Originally Posted by bkerchick
He doesn’t want to leave until June when our D(17) is done with school. She’s struggling with school and with her anxiety and ADD I’m really worried how she is going to deal with this. But he says oh don’t worry the kids will be fine. You just have to tell them the right way. Is it wrong that I want him to tell the kids with me in the room and he takes responsibility? He wants to make it sound like it’s both of us.
Of course he wants you to go along. He doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy. And their idea that kids are resilient, is pure script. They all say that. Kids are pretty far down their list of cares and priorities. These folks are going to do what they’re going to do, regardless of who it hurts. They just like to believe their narrative.
So, definitely be in the room.
I’m a proponent of being open and honest with your kids. Tell them. Answer their questions. All age appropriately. Given your daughters are 17 and 19, your conversations will be much more candid and deeper than someone with kids of 5 and 7.
Those deeper and honest conversations will likely be only between you and your daughters, H will not be involved. Stick to facts. And do not demonize their Dad. It’s not your job to facilitate their relationship, your job is for you to not destroy it.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
The only thing we’ve fought about lately is his “expense” credit card that he is supposed to only use for work. I found that he’s been making multiple large payments a month to this card. He said he’s stop using it but I don’t know if that’s the case. I have no idea where this money is going. I think I’m going to drop it for now because it’s obviously a push.
H has told you he is wanting a D. You need to speak to a lawyer.
That doesn’t mean you are wanting a divorce. You are just gathering information. Learning your rights, responsibilities, and entitlements. Discovering the best case, worst case, and likely case scenarios if a D were to progress.
Keep a close eye on the finances. Some of these folks go off the rails and start spending lots of money. Be prepared and ready. If the time comes you need financial protection or security, get it! You’ve got lots of life left to live, and you have to be able to fund it.
You are on two paths. The emotional healing path, and the business path. Most of our talks here will be emotional healing and working towards detachment and acceptance and such. That’s the bulk of one’s work. That inner journey stuff.
The business side is the money and custody stuff. When dealing with business stuff, remain business-like. Treat this like a business deal gone sideways.
Your kids are adults, so no custody. That leaves only assets and debts.
Lots of LBS do not speak with an L, or look into the business side soon enough. Again, you are just looking into things before you are surprised or in some serious financial troubles. Gaining information and options. And information is power.
There is nothing wrong with you getting your own account and starting to deposit into it. Or removing yourself from the joint credit card. Stuff like that. Though, depending on your locale, it can still be considered martial debt. Hence, speaking with L. A legal expert that can shed light for you.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
You guys get it unlike a few friends. And I need to see this through your eyes. I first thought this was a MLC but now I’m wondering if WAH. I’m reading DR for the third time with that in mind. I don’t want my marriage to end.
(((Hugs)))
You will be ok. You’ve got time in all this.
Focusing on you. Finding detachment. The advice is quite counterintuitive. It feels wrong or against what we feel is the correct or default action to take. Have faith. And dig for patience.
I look forward to conversing will you.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I have talked to an L and asked specifically about how to protect myself and the kids. He said to keep taking screen shots of records and because it is martial debt it will all come out since everything is digital.
I’m trying to figure out the best way to stop doing things for him since D is still in the house and we have family meals occasionally. Also how to get him out of the bedroom for that same reason. Air mattress?
Yesterday was bizarre. H spent the morning doing chores around the house, which he rarely does anymore. We had plans to take the D’s and D(19)’s BF to dinner. But he managed to get a last minute ticket to a wine tasting with the singer, let’s call her (s) and her friends. I was proud of myself for not getting mad, just rolled off my back. But he would be finished before dinner and would meet us. I had my doubts. We ended up eating at the same place that his wine group was at after the tasting due to the waitlist at the place we wanted to go. The D’s chose to do that. I told him he didn’t need to eat with us, but after hanging out with the wine group for quite some time he did finally join us. Kind of. The four of us had a great time and he watched the basketball game. He was very drunk. D(19) offered to drive him home but he wouldn’t let her. So we left. We thought he was behind us but he didn’t come home for another 2 hours. The D’s were very concerned about him. I didn’t bad mouth him just kept quiet. My D(17) finally texted him and asked when he was going to be home. Apparently he’d been sitting in the garage trying to get in touch with (S) because he texted her back “(S) are you wake?” Then he edited it to say yes I’m home. She thought it was funny and showed me. I felt so bad for the D’s. I doubt he remembers. He also told me at dinner that he spent a large amount of money on wine. Not sure if he remembers that or not either or if I’ll ever see it. Do I bring it up?
I’m sorry I’m just complaining but I still feel so lost. Who is this man that I love? I had some friends that also ran into this group last night and they told me today it was like bizzaro world. I don’t know what they saw but hopefully I’m having lunch with one of them this week.
I a brighter note, I had an amazing day with D(19) yesterday shopping. We had an amazing time. A church with D(17) today. H has been less and less interested in church do we go without him and he makes excuses.
I am glad to read that you have seen a lawyer. Do not discuss with him what the lawyer has advised you to do.
Treat him as if he were a roommate for now. Continue fixing meals and if he comes to eat, fine. If he doesn't that is fine too. Try to remember that he is starting to revolt against authority. That means he will begin to look at you as if you are an authority figure, i.e., mother. Eventually, he will resent having to tell you and your children where he is at and with whom.
If he is pressured, he will continue to talk about moving out. If that comes up again, he may consider moving into another room for a bit, but I suspect he will move out. The pressure of trying to be the person that you know, and love will be too much for him. He is very much aware that something is wrong, and he just can't figure out why he feels the way that he does. Depression plans a huge role in MLC.
People are starting to see that he's changing. Eventually, he will leave you, the family, pets, home and friends behind for a while and hook up with new people. Most likely a younger set of friends, divorced/separated friends, etc. This is part of the crisis.
I would not bring up anything that he has said. Listen, observe and file the info away in your memory or come here and write things down.
BTW, you are not complaining, you are trying to figure things out and how to deal with the new person that is living in your h's body. In fact, what is happening is called the mirror image of him. He will do the opposite of what he's done in the past and trust me, you will question your sanity along the way.
I am glad you had an amazing day with your D. Keep the focus on you and your family. Continue to watch the bank accounts and most importantly, come here whenever you need to talk.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Like job said, do not tell H about your lawyer visits or information you are gathering. This also includes DR, this site, DBing strategies, and so on. Why? Because H will see it, craft it, as you trying to manipulate him. Realize, for now, H is not on team bkerchik.
Having that night out described as “bizzaro world” is most apt. And unfortunately, likely just the tip of the bizzaro iceberg.
I know and empathize with how lost you feel. Remember this: You didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him.
H’s crisis is about him. About his past unrealized unreconciled trauma(s). Stuff he doesn’t even know about. Stuff he hid away.
H is driven by his emotions. He will not make well-reasoned logical decisions. Rather he will behave in the moment according to how he feels in the moment. And feelings change rapidly. As will his behaviours, actions, etc.
A crisis person cannot handle blame, judgement, pressure, and such. They simply can’t. Their mind would fracture. So, here they are feelings all these weird and wildly unhappy feelings. Becoming more and more depressed. They wonder why? What’s the cause? Who’s the cause? Remember, they cannot have it be them. So, they look around and see us. Their loving spouse. And incorrectly assign us as the cause.
With time and space, and some good fortune, H may someday realize: “Hey, bk hasn’t been bugging me for quite a while and I still feel unhappy. Hmmmmm. Perhaps she isn’t the cause of my unhappiness.” And with more good fortune, H would start to look inward, to the true cause.
Of course, this takes time. And a person in crisis is actively running from their torment. This running stage, or replay stage - as it’s them trying to replay/relive their youth, is the longest stage in a crisis.
A MLCer is on their time line. Any attempts to speed things along, as well intentioned as that may be, is at best neutral. More often our intervening just delays the crisis, and at worst completely stalls it. H has to walk his path.
And you have to walk your’s. Focus on you and your daughters. Be busy (Get A Life, GAL). Pick up old hobbies and interests you set aside for marriage and family. Start a new hobby, or take a class, or course. Feed your interest and enthusiasm. Walk, exercise, and so on. Keep moving forward.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Today I’m trying to act like a roommate. Even though my H would say that’s how we have been living. This roommate hasn’t offered any random information, which I usually do. We’ve talked when he brings stuff up, it it’s regarding the D, or if the D is involved. I think he thinks I’m mad at him? It’s just very uncharacteristic of me and feels very weird. Is that the right way to do it?
We both worked at home today and I went to the gym over lunch. My gym called him while I was gone, he told me he was concerned that something had happened to me, but they were just trying to get him to join. In the back of my head I’m like what do you care if something happened to me. I didn’t say that of course. I just said it was weird that they called. I’m so confused.
Yep, that’s right. Be kind and cordial. Speak with him (not to him), if/when he brings something up. However, it’s best to steer away from any relationship talks.
To go along with this roommate style. Don’t walk on eggshells. You don’t have to pussy foot around. Live your life. Example: “Hey H, I’m going out. See you in a couple of hours.” And go.
A few 180s from your day to day routine will get noticed. And might stir some interest within H.
Any positive changes you make, ensure you do them for you. Reason: Well, first and foremost, everything here, all advice is for you. For your betterment. So, make changes for you. Secondly, if you make changes for you, they will likely become permanent, and not just be some attempt to win H back.
By the way, H will seeing those positive changes as just that, attempts. And he will likely not believe the sincerity of it. He will also likely craft some narrative as “too little, too late”, blah blah blah. Pay it no heed. Do for you!
Detachment is the single best thing you can do for yourself. This is basically your first step. Being detached is when your emotions are no longer uncontrollably dragged around by the words and/or actions and behaviours of H. The key part of that is: uncontrollably.
When you find detachment you will be able to better influence your emotional state. Yes, you still feel - hurt, sad, anger, etc., but it won’t rule you.
To that, control. You can only control three things: Your thoughts, actions, and reactions. That’s it. Through that direct control of you, you exert influence upon other aspects of your life. This is the path/key to detachment, indifference, acceptance, forgiveness, and much more.
I’m not sure how detached you are presently. Anyhow, a few of helpful strategies. Which work by rewiring our triggers and feedback and reactions to stimulus.
When you feel your emotions running away, imagine a big red stop sign. (MWD, speaks of this in her book DR.) A big red stop sign to place the breaks on your emotions.
Schedule a time to feel. Purposefully take periods of time throughout the day to feel. Cry, get mad, whatever. Scheduling a safe time and space, say five minutes every couple of hours, helps with things not boiling over at some less opportune time. Periodic forcing yourself to feel helps cleave the subconscious triggering and feedback mechanisms. As you get more under control and detached, alter your schedule, less time, less often, until only once before work, then eventually none required.
Sweat it out. Doing something physical really helps. Run, walk, do a workout, dig a garden, shovel snow, and so on. It gives your conscious mind something else to focus on. Don’t worry your subconscious will still be churning away. This strategy is particularly helpful for anger. Sweat it out. Burn it out. For example, go to town on a punching bag. Instead of yelling at H. Get all that anger out in a safe and healthily manner. (Helps with getting a good night sleep too. )
(You may not be in the anger stage just yet. Still, good though.)
Be better, not bitter.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
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