Mazes of the Mind

[sjohns6]

Thank you guys for the advice. I think I will start getting the D paperwork done, after doing a little more homework of course.

DnJ,

In my understanding of the current state of your situation, you and W are cleaved financially. Not living together, no joint bills, no joint assets - it’s how you two are going about things day to day. Legally, the courts may have a different interpretation.

This is mostly correct. When W first moved out, she opened a new bank account and transferred her direct deposit to it thus separating our finances. She moved out and started paying her own bills, thus I began to pay the ones we previously shared. We do not have any shared bank accounts or credit cards. The one thing left in play is the house. All she did was move out and stop paying. The mortgage and the house are still in both of our names. I have lived in the house and paid for it solo for the last 5 years, but it is still considered a joint asset. Which leads me to another explanation that I am not sure I've ever mentioned...

You say she has more to lose than you. Maybe I’m misreading your need for financial protection.

I do feel like I need financial protection because of our 1 joint asset, the house I am still living in. W actually makes more money than I do. Hasn't always been the case, but it is currently. W also has more money in her 401k than I do. W also has a little money in her family. Her paternal grandparents had self made money. I am not sure how well off they were, but I believe they had millions. They used to give money as gifts, but with strings attached. W and I always opted out of receiving their money as we wanted to live our own lives without being subjected to their will. When grandpa died (several years after grandma), the family ended up fighting over the inheritance (I believe this may have been the onset of MLC as it happened about a year before BD), but the grandkids got the trust funds that were in their names. W got hers sometime after BD but before she moved out. It was about $450k if I remember correctly, although she never shared much of that info with me. It was in a protected trust and pretty sure set up in a way that it wouldn't be a marital asset. But sometime after she moved out, she took the money out of the trust and invested it. I don't know details other than that. However, I believe that in taking it out of the trust it then became a marital asset as it was no longer under the legal red tape of the trust. So, that is what I meant by she has more to lose than me. All I have is the equity in the house I live in, but she has trust money and whatnot. My fear is that she will try and take half the house, or her part of the investment. It would be a stupid move on her part to try and take her part on the house, but MLC is not a rational thing and she very well could push for that. Of course if we take it to court for a true 50/50 then I am fairly certain she would owe me money. I don't want that, I just don't want to give her money and I prefer not to fight about it. So I think maybe I need to get the ball rolling on things so that I can protect myself properly against her trying to take a piece of the house.

I will only stop having opportunity to become the man I’m meant to be, when I draw that final breath upon my deathbed. Until then, I have the agency to grow and effort towards that man. Oddly, I’ll never actual become him. Never be all I could be. For no matter how many days, if I had one more, I could grow a wee bit more.

AMEN to that!

Eagle, it's good to hear from you. I never thought I would be at a point to where I would consider moving on without W. We learn and grow so much. Would I even recognize the version of me from 7 years ago if I saw him on the street? One thing I will say regarding dating...

I'm actually dating (if you can call it dates) with several men now, but I'm very honest to them of what my current expectations are. I'm seeking merely new friendships, and who know this could turn out in more.

When I started dating, I was honest too. But spending time with someone on an intimate level (romantic or not) can cause feelings to develop. For you or the other person, or both. I would keep that in mind. If your intent is really to just make new friends, make sure to be VERY clear about this regularly. Someone who starts to have feelings can easily dismiss the friendship talk with the idea that they can win you over. Maybe just keep an eye out for that possibility.

Bttrfly, good to hear from you. You are right about all of that. I have detached myself from her and do not see her often at all. Maybe once every couple months at a school event. Because of that, I am not witness to her daily behavior. It almost seems like she has normalized, except for the weird decisions I see her make from time to time. I guess what I am seeing is what everyone else was seeing when all this started. A seemingly normal person that is maybe slightly different than before. I'm not close enough to experience the crazy...and I'm glad for that. I saw that to explain that I guess I forget some of the rational you posted

Because she doesn't care, can't be bothered, thinks she knows it all ... take your pick.
...

Because they make stuff up in their heads:
* a narrative of what your relationship was that bears little resemblance to your reality
* what they think you will do when they do x, y, z
* what they WANT an outcome to be

AND they tend to get pretty upset when it doesn't play out the way they imagined it would.

How easy it is to forget to apply those things to your own situation. Thank you for that. And I'm with you, the one thing I always wanted for myself through this is to make decisions I wouldn't regret. To be able to look at myself in a mirror. To be able to sleep at night. To be able to say that I did everything I could and that it was my best. And, I think I have done that. I think that my possibility for happiness is higher than it has been in a long time.

Thank you everyone...

[Gerda]

Sjohnnerino -- I have a slightly different take.

Do you want to divorce W? Part of me thinks you don't. I think you should file for divorce if you want to divorce her. If you aren't sure you want to divorce her, I think you should work on a legal separation agreement that takes care of all the finances, and then it can become a divorce if it grows into that, and if not, you have no money ties anymore to complicate matters. I think my experience will make it clear why this is my take!

If you do want to divorce, I would not start with a regular divorce lawyer. They are slimebags and want to make money off you. The one I have now is not a slimebag and even he is a little bit of a slimebag. Even the best most ethical one will stretch it out a little to make it worthwhile. I would start with a mediation place. I saw there is a place near you called Texas Divorce Mediation that has great reviews. Maybe have a call to find out more. I also saw that there are mediation clinics as some of the universities near you. You could consult with a few of these.

This stuff you posted about the money.

Remember, every penny of mortgage principal that you have paid on your own is a credit to you on top of the 50-50 split of equity.

And sorry, W, but anything that was marital property during the marriage, including her trust fund and her higher salary, is part of the total.

Sjohn, I am sorry to ask you this, but do you think that she never filed because she knows she would have to pay alimony and split this stuff with you?

A mediator would be able to tell you guys what the default decision would be if you filed for divorce in the regular way. Then both of you would understand that anything that sjohn is offering that is LESS than that is because he is so kind and good and doesn't want to have a gross battle, not because it's what he is entitled to.

Let's suppose your house was worth $400,000 on appraisal. Your mortgage is now $100,000. So you'd each be due $150,000 of equity from that house. If you choose to keep it, you owe her $150,000. But you've paid down $50,000 of principal and she has paid 0. So you only owe her $100,000 on your house.

In the meantime, she has hidden $400,000 of trust fund money while still married to you. So she owes you $200,000. So now she owes you that 100K, not vice versa.

You don't want it? OK, so put it in a trust for S and D, and they get it when they turn 25 and are ready to start their own businesses or put a downpayment on a tiny house.

You decide you'd rather have nothing of hers? I certainly get that. But I'd rather put it aside for my kids, if she is willing to agree to an actual equity split.

At minimum, you get the house and you don't get any of her stuff.

And if she makes more than you, she owes you alimony. It's a math problem, not a fairness problem. So let's say she'd have to pay you 50K of alimony over the next 5 years. You agree to take 45K off her equity instead.

All bargaining chips, and all through a mediator, and you can still say you want nothing, but it's good to know the default, and to be mature about it. Your marriage as a sacred union of two souls is one thing. But there was a financial partnership too, and you did your part. She wants out of the financial partnership, time to be mature and do it properly.

And you know I say all this as one who didn't do what I am telling you, and you know the outcome.

Huge hug to my friend.

[Gerda]

P.S. And I didn't even mention pensions, stocks, cars, etc. Plus figuring out who paid more on kids. I'm not saying you HAVE to do all this. I'm just saying it would be good to know the default.

[bttrfly]

A word of caution about assuming that her family money becomes a marital asset. This is VERY much based on state rules.
For example - Let's say someone inherits family money and uses it to make capital improvements to the family home, or to pay for extras for the kids, like sports, or private schooling.

the couple divorce.

In California -- the other spouse has to pay back the inherited money that supported the family.

In Massachusetts --- too freaking bad sweetheart, you are SOL.

Here's another example:
Let's say wife's parents contribute substantially to the family -- beyond a gift here and there. If it can be proven that the wife's parents contributed to the ongoing maintenance of the family, then the husband can actually lay a claim to the wife's future inheritance, AND THE COURT WILL UPHOLD IT. Her parents will have to hire a lawyer and appear in court to prove that was not the case. I know this because I know people who experienced this. There is a precedent in our state of a wealthy family who supported the couple, they even lived in a house owned by the husband's parents. The wife left and won half of his future inheritance. Now some divorce lawyers in this state try to apply that to all their clients. Again, that wouldn't fly in California.

We aren't lawyers. Ask a lawyer what the laws are in your state.

Anything we say is based on layman's knowledge, even if it's personal layman's knowledge, laws change all the time, so what applied in 2016 may have changed in 2023.

[Gerda]

Totally, bttrfly -- Not intended as specific accurate legal advice! I was just scared Sjohn will give up everything because he's the sweetest man this side of the Rockies, so I wrote a potential scenario.