wow P., if you had not mentioned you were 7 months past BD I would have thought you'd been here much longer. You sound strong and I know that's because you're doing all, or mostly all, of the right things to detach and focus on yourself. I like to say I'm going in the right direction but with many detours.
I've been thinking a lot about our relationship, H and I, we were kind of co dependent on each other. There wasn't too much we did outside of the marriage like hanging with separate friends, doing things without each other. We met being pen pals for years before meeting in person, and even when we finally met in person we had no idea it would turn into more than a friendship. Neither one of us, even though we were in our mid and late 20's, had had a serious past relationship. H was busy working all the time. He never wanted to get married because most women are just bitches (his words). I am an emotionally intense person, I could never see myself with anyone unless I really, really "felt" him and that was just never the case until H. We both had our "first time" with each other while going on 30 while the vast majority of couples would be in their early 20's, late teens even. So not the norm these days.
We meant everything to each other but we also did not know much about being married. We both failed to do the work that has to go into it. We did not weed and took care of "the garden". Hindsight here. We never communicated well, H especially, he assumed and expected without passing anything by me, and then BOOM, expectations not met, done.
Like you said D., unmet expectations lead to resentment.
I know one thing for sure, if there is or ever will be OW and they got physical, I could not deal with it. That for me is the ultimate betrayal and would forever break our bond. It could not be undone. That is just how I feel very strongly. In fact, I don't think I could ever look at him again knowing he has gone "there" with someone else. I must say that is my biggest fear at this point. A few days ago H ordered some "male enhancement" gummies, found the order confirmation in my emails. Normally I would have said okay, seems like something he could try given the fact he's been struggling in that department. There was only one thing seriously wrong with it, we don't have any sex at all anymore. It's been 8 months since. So of course I wanted to know what that's all about. He said they were vitamins for "the issue". And when I pointed out that we had not been intimate in months, why would he need them, he had nothing to say. So I don't know if I was just overreacting? I told my therapist and she said I should not jump to any conclusions because it doesn't necessarily mean he's planning to have sex with anyone. She's right but it makes me feel uneasy. I know the ED has been one of his biggest issues, he could be just trying to find ways to deal with it. I don't know.
I also did spend a good deal of time scouring the internet for answers, both now and the last time. Have to read more of the Dbusting stuff. H was on medical leave but had an appointment with orthopedic surgeon yesterday. He got him to sign his work release and he's back to work today even though he is not fully healed. One can only hope he will mind the fact that he's under certain restrictions or he'll be back where he was. But, he's out of the house until 5pm and I'm home by 11am so that gives me time to myself. My computer (still using my desktop) is right across from our bed so H would always be right behind me while resting/watching tv, etc., so I avoided going on the dbusting website and other places like it. I have my phone but it's just too small for me, I need the big screen.
Lol, thanks D. for the wording change, you're right. I should mention that English is not my native language so things I try to say may not always come out in the most suitable way. It's funny how I had to get used to speaking English when I came to the States 25 years ago, now I have trouble talking to my family and friends back home (Germany) because I often can't think of a word or two while talking to them. Guess that's how it goes. I don't get to speak my native language that much anymore.
You said...
Not long ago it was not so. I ruminated over the past, and fretted over the future. When one is depressed they are living in the past. When one is anxious they are living in the future. Peace is found living in the present...
Lol, I don't know how to quote someone on here so I just do the copy/paste thing, my apologies. Anyhow, I love it when people say things that prompt me to ponder, you are a very wise soul. And you are ultimately an asset to this site. When H first was in MLC I relied on the support of some very wise souls on the midlife wives club website forum. Have not been able to access that one again but I remember "Pegasus". She was the one who would welcome and comfort everyone new. I am grateful for people like her and you. You are a force that moves us along to better understanding.
We all know MLC is hard to wrap your head around, the more you try to understand what your lost spouse is doing and saying the more "insane" we feel. H seems very normal and like himself but as soon as I bring up anything that forces him to "feel" I get the deer in the headlights look. It is like they shut down that part of their brain. I was reading about age regression and how it can be a defense mechanism. It is true that the more you get to understand what the MLC spouse is going through the better equipped you are as the LBS to handle it and not feel like a victim. Emotions aside, I do not believe that H is doing all this to hurt me or get back at me, he is just in panic mode because he does not understand the emotional storm raging inside him. He is merely reacting in the only way he knows how.
Another thing I believe now is that the MLC timeline is different wether or not there is a third party involved. I mean it makes sense. If there is no OP the MLCer does not get pulled away from the issues inside so eventually they might deal with them. While when they have the OP they believe they have found what they have been looking for all along, the answer to all of their problems, the antidote. A fresh new life that is full of excitement, "love", adventure and a new beginning. Just what they wanted.... so the Awakening will either be delayed or may never happen at all...
Just popped into this forum to say hello to DnJ and will write a far too short piece of advice --
I don't understand your therapist's response -- it doesn't really serve you to try to convince yourself he is not having an affair, and it also really has nothing to do with the work ahead of you. I'd say it's pretty much 100% that all these MLCers are having an affair at one point or another, if not now, then later, but the gummies are not generally taken by celibate men. But your goal is to be able to say, "That's his story, not mine." It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter!
If he is having an affair, it doesn't change anything. If he isn't having an affair, it doesn't change anything.
You are looking at everything he is doing and analyzing everything and trying to find the "truth." His truth is not relevant to you, and if you start trying to figure it out or convince him to think something else, you will never succeed and you will never heal.
The only truth is that you have a long road ahead of you. He might cheat and come back. He might not cheat and not come back. He might do any combination of those things. But what is certain is that he is not going to be good to you for a really long time and there is nothing you can do about that but build a life for yourself that has nothing to do with him.
If he finishes being an absolute arse and you still have room for him, you can restore then. If he doesn't ever come out of it, you have already built a life and will be peaceful and even joyful already.
I would say (and I say this very lovingly and sympathetically) to stop making lists of what he is or isn't doing, saying, thinking, feeling. When you want to, force yourself to go for a walk, bake a pie, watch a movie, help a neighbor, watch permaculture videos, sew something, etc. And then start making lists of all the things YOU want to do now and next year and before you die. And start doing them. BE BUSY not so he notices but until you don't notice what he is doing but only how beautiful the world is.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
thanks for that "wake up call". I agree with what you're saying, my head knows these things but my heart is not quite caught up yet.
He showed me those gummies when they came in the mail, I guess they are for performance, strong heart and muscles, etc. And if he was doing anything with someone he would have to leave the house at some point and he never does. I always know where he is at. For now anyways. He never had OW the first time he was deep in MLC. I am aware that it may happen because he is now open to the idea, but I'll deal with that when the time comes, IF it comes. I don't want to assume it's going to happen because the probability is so high based on data.
I have been trying to focus on anything else but him, and I do feel more level headed when I do not think about him and what comes out of his crazy brain. I got a house full of kids, one adult daughter, one teen son and one grandkiddo and 3 crazy dogs that are treated like our children too, lol. Wouldn't know what to do without them. My son just celebrated his 17th birthday and he is a senior in high school now. Last week we had to go pick out pictures from a senior photo session. He was voted one of the senior faces of his graduating class of 2024, yay! He's gonna be featured in a tv commercial. He looks so handsome in those pictures, I'm so proud of him. Can't believe my baby is graduating next year, I just gave birth to him, lol. Time really flies. I have one question, how do you explain to your 17 year old what is happening to his father? He knows his dad has not been the same lately. I told him that he is going through something and needs time to deal with it. And that none of this is anybody's fault. At times his dad seems like himself and then he's not, that's got to be confusing. Ironically, they are both going through changes just at different life stages. My son is struggling to become an adult and my husband is struggling to become an older version of himself but instead is trying to run back to the good old days. I just feel sad for S because his dad is not able to fully be there for him right now, he can barely handle his own emotions. As I'm writing this I'm listening to S playing the piano. All of Me by John Legend. I love that song. My granddaughter is behind me tugging on me wanting to play barbies. Her Mom had to go to a doctor's appointment. Sigh, alright, gotta cut this short. Thanks for listening.
So I've been reading more about other people's situations on these forums and other sources, it has come up that MLCers who's journey gets interrupted (as I believe H's did but not 100% sure about it) and it is said that when they resume their crisis, or go back in, that it will be far worse than the initial crisis. I have read about HB's journey (God rest her soul) with her husband, he went through for 2 years and then again for another 7 years. But, truly, how many others have gone down that road and how exactly do we know that this is the way it has to happen? H's initial crisis period was 2 1/2 years, roughly, and we are looking at 10 years between then and now. He was raging then. He even kicked in the bedroom door at one time (I was inside) screaming that even my much younger nieces had more accomplished than I had. I remember crying on my bed, asking God for help, and that is where I experienced His Hug for the first time, he was comforting me. He was the one who always told me to wait and be patient, so I obeyed.
H has been much calmer this time around, no violence or extremes like that, he's turned more inward. But I also do not know what stage he is in. 2 to 3 months ago he was more angry and drinking an awful lot. I had to brace myself because that's when he got really ugly and saying things that he usually would never say out loud. He shared a lot of information then. Now he doesn't talk, and I also do not ask! He also isn't drinking nearly as much. He gets very irritable, zero patience, but he isn't mean to me. Sometimes he even picks up a soda for me on his way home or my favorite chocolate. He still sleeps in the same bed with me. There's a mile between us, but he's in it!
I know this can all change over time and he can be on the couch tomorrow. He's been wanting to get the spare bedroom ready for him but has not mentioned it again. I also know I shouldn't worry about all that and get my mind off of him but I can't help but wonder what is going to happen next.
Yes, often an interrupted crisis will resume and likely be worse. That’s worse most of the time, not all the times.
H resumed his journey, overtly, at the start of this year. Of course, he likely was falling/returning into his crisis for months before that. Couple this past year with his past 2 1/2 years, and that’s a fair bit of replay.
It is interesting that H is significantly calmer than ten years ago. I think a decade further down life’s road, a shoulder injury, retirement, not being able to continue working in his field, and such; have simultaneously brought back his crisis and kind of tired him.
MLCers come in various types and energy levels. A high energy MLCer burns the candle at both end. My XW was a high energy vanisher, and she’d have burnt the candle at fifteen ends if possible.
Your H appears low energy. A wallower. Remember, in a crisis depression is ever present, and a wallower broods a fair bit. I’d also place H as off-and-on type. Small bits of contact here and there. Mostly consistent contact, just in bits.
Off-and-on types, as well as Vanisher, do not behave like the more typical MLCer, the boomerang type. The less interaction is advantageous for detachment, yet that same lack of information can lead to panic and doubts if this is even MLC.
You are doing the right things, not asking him questions, not pressuring him, no relationship talks, and so on. All excellent things to allow H to traverse his path at his speed.
Be patience and let the future unfurl as it will.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
you are right, the more I've thought about it the more I realized that this has been quite a few months actually, maybe even a year or longer where I should have seen signs but I was blind to them. He slipped away ever so slightly.
I've re-read all of our text messages over the past months and it was clear to see that. The cute little hearts and I love U's, etc. got fewer and eventually stopped all together sometime in the fall of last year.
He had a minor outpatient procedure done in November and he said not to worry about going with, he would be fine. That was strange to me. He pulled away right before my eyes but I didn't see it then. I guess all of his recent health scares and various other setbacks were piling up and he finally snapped under the pressure.
He said it quite a few times after inofficial BD in March, he was tired, he was done. He was spent and had no more left to give.
I thought I was doing a pretty good job supporting the family for the past year and a half because he couldn't work. He never gave me credit for that though. I wanted him to be proud of me for stepping up to the plate but instead it likely only made him feel like he failed us.
I wish I had told him how proud I was of him and how much I appreciated him. I didn't do it nearly enough.
I am not giving up on him, not ever. He's the love of my life.
Hi Love, Thought I would come across here and read your story a bit better too.It’s so common what you are saying. I too wished I had seen the warning signs, thinking back now before BD I too can see H was pulling away, not his usual self. But I always would ask him if he was ok and he would always say yes and it was work.Little did I know about the storm brewing but honestly we can’t beat ourselves up about the “should haves” they too had a responsibility to communicate their feelings. Honestly they dug their own hole, and are sinking further while we try desperately to pull them out. The resist. I also now wish I had shown my appreciation of my H more too( yep another of his complaints post BD-honestly they follow the script so well). Once I was aware of it I have been doing it a lot more and say it a lot more but it just falls on deafs ears now. They can’t look within to see the times they never showed us the same level of appreciation they are demanding but honestly what can we do. I am convinced an alien has invaded my H body. They have created this idealised version of how they want their wives to be and act and they reflect back on the past -sometimes so very deep in the past- and remember all the negative times of the relationship. In order to destroy it. My H used to always complain about his mother having to do everything for his father who was always just angry and stubborn and passive aggressive. She was the domestic housewife ( they are in their 80s ) and H hated the way she did everything(but never worked) Enter the Alien into H body and he now wishes he had a version of his mother as a wife who did everything and did all the domestic duties and didn’t spend any money and live a bland basic life. H basically has become his father. This is how deep I think some of these issues go. This has nothing to do with us at all. The root of their problems start well before we were ever in the picture. We are just the perfect punching bag and their escape.
It really is sad. It’s sad to see the one you love flip a switch and become someone you don’t recognise. I have been so heartbroken over this. It really is like a death, grieving a death of the man you once loved who isn’t currently here in this current H body.
Keep loving, keep strong and keep your head up. Don’t let him drag you down into his garbage. Everyone on here keeps hammering on about GAL and I think it’s so important. Moreso even if our H don’t return or take years to return, we wouldn’t have wasted a single second being stuck in their mess.
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
those could have been my own words. They absolutely do have a responsibility to communicate their feelings! In fact, H and I did have a talk about exactly that not very long ago.
He's never been a good communicator, he's a stuffer, and when I asked what's wrong I got the same, work stress, etc. He never did ask me questions but had the tendency to assume things. The lack of intimacy this past year was related to me transitioning. My hormone levels have dropped due to perimenopause and I admit that sex just was not on my mind much, but it evidently was on his. I do realize I should have addressed that. We just never had a conversation about it. I think that's why he was assuming I was cheating on him. He even got into watching the "Cheaters" tv show. I thought it was just funny at the time. Little did I know he was starting to make up stories in his mind about me and that (very much younger than me) coworker...
Last Sunday we got into another argument. Sigh... I did go against everyone's and my own advice again. His cheating accusations have hurt me so deeply and he just keeps sticking with it, it is the (almost) one and only thing he uses against me, his justification for turning away from me. He makes me cry every time. I take the bait every time!
So we were going back and forth until I said well, if you don't love me anymore why don't you get that divorce then?! I had made clear to him that I would not resist at all if that was truly what he wanted. He looked at me and said I do love you! And then when I backed away from him he pulled me into his arms and we hugged for about 5 minutes or so. I kept crying while he did not say a word, he just held me. It felt so good, I miss him so much every day.
That was the first physical contact in a long time. It was almost like the alien had stepped aside for a brief moment there. Of course it did not last but it did give me hope.
I also had the opportunity to say some things to him that needed to be said. He had voiced his feeling of not being appreciated and that he thought he had been a pretty good provider, to which I responded that he had been an awesome husband and father and I have always been proud of him for taking such good care of our family. He thanked me and I could see the wheels turning inside his head. He got quiet for a bit.
I know deep conversations right now are not a good idea but overall I do think this one was good for the most part.
I just read through your updates. I'm sorry you are having to join this club, but at very least it will help you through all the tough bits. Everyone has given you really good advice. I am not sure if I have anything to add other than to piggyback on what everyone else has already said. Everyone around here seems to really know their stuff and they have been a lifeline to me in my journey, even if I don't come around much anymore.
One thing I will add is a reminder that all you do is for yourself, not to get your H back. That will or will not happen and nothing you do will really affect that. I have been told that you can't fix him but you CAN make it worse. But I am not even sure if I believe that. I spent years trying to do things that I thought would lead my W back, and chastised myself when I thought I mis-stepped in some way. In the end, I do not think anything I did mattered at all. It was never about me, so nothing I did affected anything. I analyzed everything for deeper meaning, looking for signs. Oh I'd say I wasn't. I'd say I was getting a life for myself. I'd say I was being kind to her despite her actions because I was a good person (not that I'm not), but the truth is I was taking the actions that I thought would lead her back to me. If she does ever try to come back, I don't think it would be based on my efforts, but on hers. I think that is what I would want anyways. If she's to come back, I want it to be because she wants to and is willing to do the work, not because I did the work, if that makes sense. I say all of that as a reminder that you need to be healing yourself for YOU. You are the prize. You didn't break things, you didn't break him. We ALL could be better people, better partners, better friends, better parents, etc...every one of us. But, for healthy people that love and support each other, almost nothing is actually a deal breaker. They communicate and work together to repair things. If you don't communicate, how can you know that there is an issue? Our MLCers have something broken inside them, and it was there before we met them. It is their responsibility to fix that so that they can be part of a healthy relationship. Happiness is something you bring TO a relationship, not something you get FROM it.
Just do your best to live your best life despite the situation. Remember that you are the prize. You are the one holding things together. You hold the truth in your heart about the reality of your relationship. You know there was love, you know there was happiness, you know that nothing that you did broke your relationship. He may have been the love of your life, and he may have been worth waiting for in general...but he is not that person anymore right now. He may be again in the future at some point, but he isn't right now and it's on him as to whether he ever returns to that person again. I know it feels counterintuitive to let him twist in the wind with his depressive MLC when you are supposed to be his love and support, but that is the nature of this thing. He won't be receptive to it right now and it will only make your head spin if you try to love him out of it and it goes unreciprocated from him. For now, work on you! You deserve it!
