Marching in limbo with MLC H (2)

[marching]

First thread: Marching in limbo with MLC H

A new thread, and what a way to start.

It is Christmas. H gave me a long report of his meeting with the lawyer and asked me how I'd like to move forward. All very polite and in one of the texts he says he will cover my legal fees.

M: Thanks for the Christmas gift. I will open it later.

H: Oh yeah take your time. I forgot it was Christmas.

[For context: Country B is many time zones ahead of where I am, so it is already Monday the 26th for him. However, it is still Christmas in Country A, where I am, and I think he knows I am here.]

Another funny thing is that H's description of the D process in Country B is completely different from what I was told when I consulted a lawyer. H is actually making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

I'm trying to take it as a joke. I just have to laugh at it.

[BL42]

marching,

It is Christmas. H gave me a long report of his meeting with the lawyer and asked me how I'd like to move forward. All very polite and in one of the texts he says he will cover my legal fees.

Lousy timing for sure, but just roll with the punches.

How did he give you a "long report"? Was this all over text, or did you call?

M: Thanks for the Christmas gift. I will open it later.

Not sure the medium/delivery, but this comment come across as passive aggressive to me. Remember you're supposed to be coming across as indifferent/embracing the situation, so don't keep commenting about how you're not ready or upset about his intentions. You could simply not respond at all. Or say "please direct this to my L".

Another funny thing is that H's description of the D process in Country B is completely different from what I was told when I consulted a lawyer. H is actually making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

Just as long as you've consulted Ls in both countries and really understand the process and are taking the approach of getting yourself the best business deal.

Merry Christmas marching. It's tough, but you WILL be alright eventually. In fact, I think you're going to thrive.

[DnJ]

H: Oh yeah take your time. I forgot it was Christmas.

Often, they do flake on appointments and special days. However, I think (maybe it’s more feel) that H is perfectly aware of the date and time of where and when you are. Why he “needed” to send all that info on Christmas. Who knows? He just felt like it. Some projected anger or something or other. No matter, let it go m.

In a few days (weeks maybe, it is Christmas after all), consider his proposals, and speak with legal counsel, and look into the business side of this situation.

By the way, H providing a long report regarding his meeting with his L is good for you. Let him talk all he wants. You’ll likely be amazed at what he is really after and willing to settle for. (Far from heartless, just keeping business, business.)

D

[Ready2Change]

It is Christmas. H gave me a long report of his meeting with the lawyer and asked me how I'd like to move forward. All very polite and in one of the texts he says he will cover my legal fees.

Do not lose that text message. Run it past your lawyer to see if it is legally binding.

[marching]

Ok wow so much to update. Thanks for the very concrete and actionable feedback, BL42, D, and R2C. Yes, all this was communicated by text and I am definitely treating this as a business deal going forward. The "Christmas present" comment was definitely not DB-kosher but I have no regrets.

So, I just had an R talk, all over text. I am definitely writing from an emotional place. I'm venting. On a certain level, I feel peace, because now I know what's going on with H. He's so unstable and confused omg. I deserve so much better. He's pathetic. He's definitely in MLC.

I'm glad I braced myself for this, the OP. I basically operated on the assumption that there is an OP. In fact, there are two. The timeline is really shows how lost he is.

One week before DB, he was genuinely excited about our plans to start a family (our plan for years); he said this during our R talk. But then he suddenly got a crush on OP#1 and felt very guilty. I correctly guessed the identity of OP#1. This was a short-lived infatuation though. He started seeing someone else. I have a suspect for OP#2 but don't care to get any confirmation. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, H keeps pushing this divorce so he can see OP#2 as a legally single person. We are coming up on 4 months since BD, and I think he's been seeing OP#2 for at least a couple months. The funny thing is that H is also applying for a job in Country C. He doesn't think he will get it. But trying nonetheless. So, he just jumped into this new relationship and is also thinking about moving out of the country. Unclear if this escape plan involves OP#2 but whatever.

H complained a lot about feeling stuck in Country B. First, he said he's not sure if he's unhappy. But he's not really happy, either. Eventually he said that he is unhappy. I told him I'm sorry he's unhappy. He's still not happy at work, he's just going through the motions. This was SO VALIDATING to hear because he previously said that he enjoyed his job a lot more since BD. That was the first thing he told me when we had our in-person R talk—that he was happy. It hurt to hear him say that he was happier without me in his life. But he hasn't had me in his life for a while now and even with OP#2, he's still not happy.

He also said he's ramped up his running a lot and just completed a half marathon. He said he thought our relationship give him an excuse to not look his best and be lazy. He said he is too old to have children. He says he feels that he's missed out on a lot. He agrees that he is in MLC. I validated him, but also said a lot of non-DB things. I don't regret it. I got a lot of stuff off my chest. I feel good. I told him I think he's making big decisions while in a crisis, I don't think it's wise, I am collateral damage, and I deserve respect. He apologized, he says he thinks about how badly he handled things everyday.

I am done being afraid of his reactions. I don't want to be married to him. It hurt to have the OPs confirmed, but in a way it was validating. Just another piece in the MLC puzzle, along with all the other stuff. I was right. A+ for me!

BL42, your question from just a couple days ago was so spot on. I am young and we have no children and I don't want to waste my time for H to maybe, maybe wake up one day. I do think that we had a good relationship overall, and there was something to save, but this current H is incapable of that, and I am not going to wait for him. Judging from this conversation, he has a looooong way to go.

It was an uncomfortable conversation, and I will likely hurt for a bit. But I also like this clarity and confidence that comes from knowing that I don't want to be with this person. I am ready for this divorce. I am ready to get the best business deal. The M is dead. My respect for H is dead. I feel a bit stupid for having wasted time on him. Well, a lesson learned. I look back at our relationship and see the red flags. I see where I could have been better too, but this crisis was a long time coming and has nothing to do with me. I am beginning to feel closure.

I have an awesome life ahead of me.

[marching]

Honestly, good riddance. Dodged a bullet. So glad I don't have children with this guy.

[LH19]

Honestly, good riddance. Dodged a bullet. So glad I don't have children with this guy.

Sounds like you did dodge a bullet. I’m glad you got the peace you were looking for with the relationship talk. Just know that your feelings are going to flip flop for awhile and you get will urges to reach out for more closure. I would tell him you will only communicate through email and block his text. Take care Marching.

[BL42]

marching,

Yes, all this was communicated by text and I am definitely treating this as a business deal going forward.

Imo, you should be using Last Resort Technique (LRT) and dropping all communication with H...especially texting. Only respond to the business components of his emails and even then mostly it should be "Please direct this to my L".

So, I just had an R talk, all over text.

"No R talks" is probably the biggest piece of advice given here and you ignored it.

I am definitely writing from an emotional place. I'm venting.

Good to vent here, but you were also emotional in the R talk / text messages, which is unlikely to help.

On a certain level, I feel peace, because now I know what's going on with H.

Glad you got some clarity. However, be prepared for your emotions to swing. One day you might feel strong and empowered and know H is bad for you; the other you might feel lonely and depressed and miss him. Just be aware that will likely happen and be prepared to take action when it does. Don't sit on the couch all alone; get out and run, hit the gym, go out with friends...etc.

He's so unstable and confused omg.

Yes, for sure.

I deserve so much better.

Yes, you do.

He's pathetic.

He's definitely in MLC.

Maybe, maybe not. Don't bother trying to diagnose it.

I'm glad I braced myself for this, the OP. I basically operated on the assumption that there is an OP. In fact, there are two.

Almost always an A going on. Based on your description close to 99% chance.

One week before DB, he was genuinely excited about our plans to start a family (our plan for years); he said this during our R talk.

Do not believe ANYTHING he says. For all you know one week before BD he might've been with OP3 and just be telling you he was excited to start a family. This was before the pressure of you actually arriving in person.

Anyway, H keeps pushing this divorce so he can see OP#2 as a legally single person.

So I don't know your country or the laws there, but I was surprised to find out there are typically little to know legal impacts of infidelity in a marriage in most US states. The offender operates with impunity. Whether you're legally married or not, there's likely no consequences under the law or impacts to your divorce. Also, been surprised how many people still embrace those considering their actions, but that's another issue.

We are coming up on 4 months since BD, and I think he's been seeing OP#2 for at least a couple months.

Almost certainly longer and worse than whatever he admitted. You've been living apart for years, correct?

So, he just jumped into this new relationship and is also thinking about moving out of the country.

It's common for the WS to change everything in their life to "be happy". Mine jumped from OM1 to OM2, moved 3 times, got a new job w/a different company, new tattoos, elective surgery...etc. In fact, I know one of her work friends told her she was changing too much too soon and ExW completely ignore it. The thing is, when the newest and shine wears off are they any happier than before? Probably not.

Unclear if this escape plan involves OP#2 but whatever.

"Whatever" is right. Not your monkeys, not your circus anymore. But deep down do you truly mean it? You will someday.

I told him I'm sorry he's unhappy.

Why did you say sorry?

But he hasn't had me in his life for a while now and even with OP#2, he's still not happy.

Right. He is responsible for his own happiness. You can not make him happy. A job job, a new country, and even OP2 can not make him happy.

He also said he's ramped up his running a lot and just completed a half marathon.

That's a good thing for him. Make sure you're exercising too!

He said he thought our relationship give him an excuse to not look his best and be lazy.

People often do get lazy in relationships...doesn't mean it's your fault.

I validated him, but also said a lot of non-DB things. I don't regret it. I got a lot of stuff off my chest. I feel good.

Well, at least you know it was non-DB, got it off your chest, and got clarity. But going forward...

I told him I think he's making big decisions while in a crisis, I don't think it's wise

You're right objectively, but he won't listen so it's wasted breath.

He apologized, he says he thinks about how badly he handled things everyday.

An apology is more than most people here get.

BL42, your question from just a couple days ago was so spot on. I am young and we have no children and I don't want to waste my time for H to maybe, maybe wake up one day.

I do think that we had a good relationship overall, and there was something to save, but this current H is incapable of that, and I am not going to wait for him.

Good.

Judging from this conversation, he has a looooong way to go.

Um, yeah...

It was an uncomfortable conversation, and I will likely hurt for a bit. But I also like this clarity and confidence that comes from knowing that I don't want to be with this person.

Good. Glad you got the clarity. Now go out there and live your life!

I am ready for this divorce. I am ready to get the best business deal.

Good! Embrace it! That's all you can do anyway.

I feel a bit stupid for having wasted time on him. Well, a lesson learned.

You're not stupid for wanting to save your marriage. You're on the right side of this. Keep your head held high.

I look back at our relationship and see the red flags.
Interesting. What are the red flags you ignored? It's important to recognize them and why you ignored them to avoid making the same mistake in the future.

[quote=marching]I have an awesome life ahead of me.

I've no doubt. Like I said, marching, you're young with a cool career that takes you all over the world. You have a lot going for you already and if you keep up with self improvement you'll attract a guy you deserve.

So glad I don't have children with this guy.

So the kids are always the caveat in any situation. The thing is once you have them you'll never want a redo there, so it's hard to wish I didn't have them with ExW because then they wouldn't be the same kids. I can never say I wish I hadn't married ExW because I love S7 and D4. To your point though it is far less complicated and easier to move on without that significant tie to Ex, so enjoy the freedom in that regard.

marching - I have a feeling you haven't heard the last from him. Whether you want to hear from him in the future is another question. In the meantime go out and embrace your freedom and live life to its fullest.

[marching]

Thanks so much for the support, LH19 and BL42. I feel the emotions swinging already. Hardly slept at all last night. Good thing I'll be going to Big City soon and will be very busy, living a fabulous life.

Yep, guilty as charged—I fully knew I violated DB principles. I think it worked for me, though, in the sense I feel that I got my power back and I confirmed just how far gone H is. Everything he said was so nutty, it made the importance of not taking any of this personally sink in that much more. The affairs hurt. They do. But they also show how broken and weak he is.

Re: what he said about not looking his best and being lazy. That thing was really nutty. He blamed our relationship for him not going out and not cleaning the house last year. But that's when we were apart due to COVID and he was living by himself in the boonies (he moved there thinking it would make him happy). So of course it really had nothing to do with me. I wasn't even there. And when I did live with him there for an entire year, we did go out on dates and we had a cleaning schedule.

We were long distance for a few years, but visited each other frequently and for extended periods of time.

BL42, I take your point about the OP. Yeah I'm not gonna trust him. Gonna try to not ruminate on that crap either. Of course, it's a struggle. I am proud of myself for not asking for details. I don't care to know. One day, none of this will even cross my mind. I know the way forward is to just live my best life.

Funny thing about the running. I actually encouraged him to run races when he started complaining about feeling stagnant two years ago. And here he is doing exactly that. I know you say not to diagnose, but man if that doesn't align with the classic MLC signs!

He mentioned thinking about how much he learned in therapy. He went a few years ago when we lived in Country D (yep, we've lived in many countries together) after much encouragement from me due to his mood and alcohol issues.

Those issues were red flags for sure. Therapy helped a lot, but he stopped when he moved to Country B, and he slowly started to behave erratically. I was even kind of troubled by the selfies he would send sometimes. He had weird eyes in them. He's been slowly falling apart for the past two years. I regret not suggesting therapy again when he would say strange things. The erratic behavior got on my nerves sometimes and I withdrew. I own that part.

Another red flag from even earlier in our relationship was that I didn't like some of his friends. I thought they were emotionally immature and exhibited poor behavior in their relationships, which have since broken down (!!). I ignored it because I rarely saw them, and at the time, H treated me like a queen.

BL42, wow, your ExW went on a manic rampage there. That must have been really hard to go through. Nope, these huge changes definitely don't bring happiness. I told H sorry for his unhappiness simply as a textbook reflective listening move. In context, it was clear that I wasn't taking responsibility for any of it.

Interesting what you say about this not being the last that I will hear from H. At least for now, I don't want to talk to him beyond business matters. I don't want to think about his dumb life.

[Ready2Change]

I have an awesome life ahead of me.

Yes you do.

I agree with others that LRT is best at this point. Transition from text to email only, ASAP.

Find safe ways/places to morn the loss of the relationship. Emotional release is definitely healthy.

HUGS