Brave Little Gerda, So Chilled She Could Not Speak

[DnJ]

Gerda

I have been following along, even with our discussion on my thread. I wrote a post regarding this after your post with the letters, thought I submitted it, obviously it is not here.

MLCers are all emotions and self centered. The selfish spoiled brat as job said.

Gerda wrote:
We need to work out the car situation. We were going to do two day trips and maybe go to (my cousin)’s and we are stuck here the whole vacation even for day trips. We can’t go anywhere as an overnight just from Monday night to Wednesday morning even if D9 didn’t have school on Wednesday.

My proposal if you don’t want to buy my half of the car and have it all to yourself is that I have use of the car on kids’ school holidays and every other weekend. This will give you use of the car way more than half the time and will allow both of us to make plans without uncomfortable conversations. I am fine with zip car for IKEA or whatever but I can’t use it for leaving town. When I work in (area he is working in), I just bike from the train but I assume there are Zip car drop off points all over (that area).

What you said is true and factual. Only one confusing part: “We need to work out car situation” - refers to you and him. “We were going to do two day...” - this and subsequent we refers to you and kids.

However, the point is you are stating what you and kids want or need - He doesn’t care about that. He care about only himself and things that pertain to only himself. Anything else will be seen as badgering to him.

Rational people will read what you wrote and see it as intended. He is not rational. He will get agitated and angry about getting poked about something he doesn’t want to be talking about. Then the part that gets worse - you gave him information about the very thing you want or need, the very thing that will bother you, and he can use it against you - and he does.

My missing post also included that he is bullying you. Look how quickly he goes to have your L talk to my L. Really H?? Over a car, straight to lawyers. See how irrational he is. How much he is bullying you. This is what, the third time he has threatened to see the lawyers over little things.

I like you standing up to him, and you should. That 180 looks good on you.

Gerda, you are not wrong in standing up for yourself. You should not be bullied.

However, this particular event concerning the cars is a bit different - you are initiating the discussion. You are attempting to get something, to gain favour. You need to come at this from a different angle. job’s suggestions is very good.

You ask him.

No explaination, no proposal of times of useage - it wont work anyhow, you know how confused he is, he will never follow it. You just ask him. No expectation, no demands, no other talk - just ask.

As job said something like: H, if it is possible the kids and I would like to use the car on Friday.

This is short and sweet. It gives him total control of allowing or denying useage. It gives the illusion of him having control of, or say over, the car.

Think a spoiled kid (brat) and you want to get a toy from him. If you tell him or just take it - a meltdown. If you let him decide to give it to you, to graciously allow you to have it - ya I know, yuck - you might get the toy and no drama. Of course you might not, so have a plan B.

A different approach, for your MLC H who doesn’t respond like other people right now.

Hopefully this helps.

DnJ

[job]

Gerda,

DNJ explained what I was attempting to get across to you. Thanks DNJ for stepping in and explaining a bit better for Gerda.

It is one thing to stand up for yourself, but when you are attempting to get something from the MLCer, you have to think outside the box. They are emotionally driven and when we attempt to get something from them, well, they behave badly, i.e., like a spoiled brat on the playground who doesn't want to share. No matter what you say, they will only hear what they want to hear and that is you wanting to take something from them.

You've tried to reason w/an emotionally irrational man. You can't win the battle this way. The best way to try to get what you want is to ask and keep the request simple. No explanations and expectations...,just ask. We learn that asking and allowing them to form their response w/o expectations works better. Now, he may say he has to think about it and that's okay because he's the one that will make the decision. If he says no, then have a Plan B in place and go from there.

As for the bullying, they all do this and it's a scare tactic to get us to back off. It's not something that I would even discuss with a lawyer because all you would be doing is adding up billable hours over something that may not be necessary.

What is the old saying? Ask and you shall receive? Try what DNJ and I have suggested...asking w/no expectations and see what happens next time. He just might be more flexible w/you when it comes to what you want.

[Gerda]

Ah ha, now I understand what you are both saying. What you are advising is about my detachment, not the car or what is just.

And let me say first that it means so much tome that you are both taking so much time to try to help me. I really really appreciate the advice and it's really helpful.

Finally, DnJ, it was really comforting to have you say he is bullying me. That was what I felt and it is much less lonely to get bullied when a nice friend standing at the edge of the playground is there to say, "Hey, that's not fair!"

I left out part of the exchange though. My first attempt was more like what you have advised, Job. I left that out because it got no response beyond his departure.

So I am still wondering one thing. I now understand what you were saying about how to detach from expectation and deal with him as a spoiled brat, etc. That is all about what he will do.

What I still don't understand is the part about what I do. Are you both telling me that though I have been solely responsible for the car since BD and continue to be the one to pay insurance on it and any repairs, that I should, when he has a tantrum, not use the car? Just give it to him? This means that I can't go anywhere with my kids, as even a 2 night trip from where I live is a $500 car rental.

I think I have actually done what you are saying about every other thing in our lives. I was thinking that now that he filed for D, we have to either have an agreement about the car or he has to buy my half and take over all the expenses.

I do feel like ANYTHING that comes up becomes just what Job is saying, like two kids pushing and pulling on a toy. Think about your 3-year old metaphor and the times when by mistake one finds oneself trying to pull that toy from the three-year old, but you can't do that with a grown man. In fact I get into this with S13, who looks like a grown man and is taller than me, when I have tried to take anything from him in the last year or two. I quickly realize it's pointless to rely on strength.

But yes, with my H, I quickly find myself in a push-pull that went from 0 to 2000 in five seconds flat. I haven't posted any of his e-mails here in a while but the ones I have been getting about the biz (that I never got paid for and have been in court over for two years and recently reinherited) have been bullying and vicious and insulting to the nth degree. But for that i did ask my lawyer, since I wasnt sure what I was legally bound to do or say, and she gave a three line totally non-engaging reply to send to him that would have made both of you proud.

Thanks, my friends, for being there for me. From the bottom of my heart!

[DnJ]

Gerda

What you are asking about, the car insurance, the useage, you paying all the money - I like how you now see it has no point when asking him for the car. Those discussions and arrangements need to be made before, long before.

This is part of that see a lawyer, know your rights, know what you need, want, are willing to give up, and what you will fight to the death over. Where the car, its finances, the use - all end up on this spectrum is up to you. That gift of time you have, use it to figure out this stuff, before it is too late. Having your ducks in a row will be so very helpful.

Anyhow, the car to me is more of a boundary issue and a bullying issue.

You pay all the costs for the car, and can’t use it when you want or need to. Screw that! Maybe you use your car, and you share it with him - not the other way around. It would be nice if you both could share it, however that isn’t going so well.

My previous advice on asking is for the current arrangement, and to keep Gerda’s head from exploding from stress - again due to the current arrangements.

Decide if, and then what, changes you want - then make them. Get some boundaries on his antics. H, I will be using the car this Friday. That’s it, no further discussion. Let him get mad, leave the room. He writes another long crazy email, read it, save it for your L, don’t answer him, and use the car. Tell him the boundary regarding his bullying emails. (You’re right this is not just about the car)

This course of action is again for Gerda. You are walking on egg shells and don’t need to be bullied. Yes, we do put up with some less desirable and really disrespectful behaviour, it is up to you how much you are willing to put up with.

Gerda, you really made me sit back and take notice when you told me of how you remembered when I told you to let go of your fear. A little tiny DnJ sitting on your mantle, I was touched. It meant a lot to me. I do consider the affect of my words and the serious inplications and consequences that they may cause.

You know I like and care about you and your kids. So I am sure you realize where I am coming from and whose interests I am concerned about. Egg shells hurt your feet, and pretzeling yourself will only get you a bad back.

Let go of your fear. Do what is best for Gerda.

I am here for you.

I will support you.

Hey you, the bullying talkative guy - That’s not fair!

DnJ

[Coly23]

Happy New Year Gerda!

It seems like you are dealing with so much at the moment. Just reading your recent exchange with your H about the car makes my head spin. IMHO, it seems your H is whining constantly about the choices he has made and is trying to make it your problem. He doesn't want you to be in his life but he still expects you to be sympathetic to the fact that he has no money and needs the car to get to work. I am sorry if I have not understood correctly but is he studying so can't get a full-time job? Well if so then that is his problem. As far as I can see, he needs you more than you need him. How much is he supporting you financially? I get the impression very little so his argument about not being able to have a job if he doesn't have use of the car is of no benefit to you at all especially if you are paying all of the running costs and getting nothing from him in return financially.

These are his choices and as DNJ says he is bullying you because he knows you would rather save your marriage than get a D. I also think you are waaay to polite to him in your exchanges and the communicating by email is just giving him free reign to write his ridiculous responses to you! Maybe change your way of communicating, not bring rude but as the others said, direct and to the point. Also maybe suggest that email/letter responses are not going to be read by you in future. Unless you are happy to get them, but if it was me I would dread receiving them!

I really hope things start looking up for you in 2019 Gerda on both the business and in you R. (((Gerda))).

[Gordie]

Gerda

I agree with DNJ and Coly

Reading your exchange about the car

Gerda pays all the costs

It is her car

H should be asking Gerda on when he can borrow it

I know Gerda is not rude

But I might try and get that point across

And maybe offer to buy him out of his share

Not the other way around

[job]

I thought I'd check on you and see how things played out for the rest of this week. Where you and your children able to get away for a few days?

Hope things have settled down a bit for you and the children.

[Gerda]

Thank you for checking up on me, Job!

Things are so insane here. I have not had time to write and even now I really can't answer you properly. I think my life is really different from most of my friends here because I have battles on so many other fronts besides MLC but all are sort of a result of MLC -- e.g., having to sell our biz and that going poorly, my H not helping me with our other biz so everything falling apart, my H not giving me any money so I have to work so many jobs. I am in a haze of work, court, negotiations with landlord of old biz and various potential tenants and brokers who might take my lease, kids, work, court, negotiations again. Then I come home and sometimes my H starts up and despite miniature you and DnJ and Gordie et all sitting on my mantle, I forget you are there and freak out and run out of the house (my H does not realize I am freaking out, just thinks I am not really answering his questions) and hide in my church talking it out with God for as long as I can.

H also gave D9 his old iPad for X-Mas, leaving me with the inevitable fighting and problems it would cause. One night when kids were fighting over it, I took it and hid it. AND I CAN'T FIND IT AND HAVE TOTALLY BLACKED OUT THE MEMORY OF WHAT I DID WITH IT. I cleaned out my whole admittedly horrifyingly cluttered room and still can't find it. Now have to tear apart the whole apartment to try to find it. So H has been at me about that to the point where I promised I would pay him for it if I didn't find it. Apparently it was worth $700.

I feel like my H is completely spiraling. It's like he was after BD1, this awful dark and desperate feeling emanating from him, along with hatred for me and a sort of miserable smugness, but it's worse because of his friend funding the D. I came downstairs on Friday night at about 1:30 in the morning and he was gone. Didn't see him again or hear anything and I started to wonder if he had left us (and felt relieved, honestly) and then at 7 pm Sat night get a text asking if I needed the car as he was at the house of the friend who is paying for his D, doing "paid renovation work."

Our house is completely falling apart because he never helps with anything -- I mean, roof leaking, in the rentals (and our apt) the windows don't work and the bathroom tiles peeled up, leaky basement -- major things.

Sometimes I wonder if he is really with this friend as often as he says. I think maybe he is still in his A or has a new one.

He continues to corner the kids to tell them how I control the money -- on X-Mas, when I thought everything was so nice, he did that with my S while I was at mass with my D. My son finally asked me about it two nights ago. My S told me that H said that he wants to explain "his side" -- I think he forgets that he has already done this many times. H told him I control everything and won't let him do anything and that it's not right, that a wife should not be like that. He told him that I am jealous when he hangs out with my D! Can you imagine talking to a child this way? And H never ever hangs out with my S, can go days without seeing him, but when H does see S, if I am not home, H does that and then S has a panic attack. When S13 told me about this time, S followed it by saying he couldn't imagine a life without the depression he feels, talked a lot about how he wants to do drugs to escape the pain, etc. So that is why I am scared to leave for overnights, since my S refuses to go and I am scared to leave him with H.

Anyway this is getting too long, I have to run back to work. It was really nice of you to check up on me, Job. You are such a good mom to the LBS's. : )

[job]

Gerda,

Breathe! I have found that when you aren't trying to find something, you will stumble across it. You may have put it under the bed or sofa. I can't imagine it's very far away. It could very well be in the top of your closet.

Okay, I'm thinking logically here, and I shouldn't...but if your h gave your child the old iPad, then why should you pay him $700 for it? It is old and is definitely not worth $700 these days. You could probably get 2 for that price or if they are on sale, maybe three. He is seriously off his rocker to make that statement.

I am so sorry he's misbehaving again. He really and truly has lost the plot. They all tend to choose one child over the other and make them their special pal. It's not right, but that's what they do. He is projecting his control issues on to you and you know what? He is the master manipulator/controller because he is controlling you through your son.

It might be a true blessing if he visited his friend more often or go to work. You've got so much going on, it's hard for you to focus on any one thing at a time.

I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

[DnJ]

Gerda - You do not pay H for misplaced iPad - ever - I don’t care how much he is at you. No. No. No. It wouldn’t surprise me if he found it and won’t tell you so he can get $700. And there is no way it is worth that amount. Also H gave it to S, therefore H has no more claim to it.

Don’t feel bad for taking away the iPad, sounds like there was misuse and fighting, and parents step in and correct poor behaviour. When you find the misplaced iPad set a firm boundary or rules with its use.

I totally understand your feeling of relief when H is gone for a while. It is amazing how they pick a favourite child, and a least favourite. Currently W’s favourite is S20, and least is between D16 and S18, more towards S18 still.

Like job said, he is the master manipulator/controller. Recognize it and let him spin around on his own, don’t dance along to his tune.

Allow son to talk about all the stuff his dad is doing and saying to him. Reassure him of what is real, and dissuade the stuff that is fantasy. Your son is a smart kid, he knows what’s what, he just needs someone to confirm it.

Might also work on empowering him to find his voice towards his father. “Dad, this is stuff you should talk to Mom about”, that kind of thing. Son doesn’t need all H’s projections and troubles.

You got lots going on. Do try to carve out some Gerda time - she is a pretty nice gal and deserves it.

DnJ