180man Update

[180Man]

Hey guys,

Most of you probably don't remember me, that's okay. My threads were over a year ago. For some reason this website popped in my brain this morning and I remember when I was at one of my lowest points, I was looking for success stories. Someone on here mentioned that a lot of people never come back, so it's hard to know what happened to their relationship. I figured I'd stop by and give an update.

Summary of my situation: wife cheated on me and couldn't forgive herself, it's been over a year and a half since I last saw her. She took a job in the middle east to punish herself. I stopped trying to reach out a long time ago.

What nobody can tell you when you're going through this is how your future will pan out for you. Even if you think you know what you want, even if you follow all of the great advice floating around here, you never know what will happen. I went on some dates with a co-worker, it didn't work out and I'm actually glad it didn't. She wasn't right for me, but I needed a distraction, I needed something to get me off the broken record of wanting my ex back.

I had a couple of other short relationships after that, both of which ended amicably. It just wasn't right. I had another co-worker (whose soon-to-be ex was abusing her) start to fall for me and as tempting as it was to engage, I had to tell her we couldn't be friends anymore. She made it clear what she wanted, but having gone through the divorce process myself, I told her she needed time to heal, that jumping into another relationship was not a wise idea, and that I really didn't want to be involved in another divorce. One was plenty. Not to mention that I could never cheat with anyone ever, not after what I went through.

Then one day I met someone. We had a little bit of a complicated false start six months prior, but one day I found myself in a relationship with her. The next five months were amazing. I learned a lot. I learned that even though I did a lot of work on myself, there were mistakes I was going to make in a real, committed relationship that I could never have known until I was actually in a real relationship.

Since I viewed my failed marriage as 50% my fault, I over-compensated when it came to this new relationship. I went above and beyond to avoid screwing up. She even told me at one point "stop trying so hard." It wasn't that I was bringing her flowers too often or doing too many dishes....it was that I started worrying about losing someone so great, and it started affecting the relationship. It became unattractive. If I could pay it forward to any of you going through this, this is the one thing I would want you to be aware of. Maybe it's not something you could completely solve, but at least awareness is the first step. Do your best to police yourself from over-doing it, from trying too hard, from trying to fix the past by over-compensating in the present. Worrying about the past or the future is not going to help. Just. Be. Present.

Needless to say, we broke up. She is an extreme introvert, I am a mild extrovert. She is moving and changing jobs. I think we're both scared. We both have feelings for each other, but I believe the logical side of her brain is overriding the emotional side. It's probably not going to work out, but like I said earlier, we never know what will happen in the future, so I will keep the door open and see what happens.

What astounds me after all of this is that I no longer desire to be with my ex. In fact, I don't think I could ever be with her again. I want her to be happy, I want her to forgive herself, I want her to find someone that works for her. I hold no ill will toward her. However, having been through a couple of other relationships since then, and having found someone I really invested myself into -- I can see how looking back at it all that there plenty of people out there with whom I am likely MORE compatible with than my ex.

Anyways, that's all I dropped by to say. Thanks for all of the help and to anyone who's going through the sh!t storm right now, hang in there, it will get better.

[SteveLW]

Thank you 180. Could you please elaborate on:

"I went above and beyond to avoid screwing up. She even told me at one point "stop trying so hard." It wasn't that I was bringing her flowers too often or doing too many dishes....it was that I started worrying about losing someone so great, and it started affecting the relationship. It became unattractive."

What were the behaviors you were engaging in that became unattractive?

[Maika]

Hey 180Man! Thanks for coming back and sharing what happened. Yeh, it's hard to know as people drop off and lives go on. It's normal.

Just. Be. Present.

You hit the nail on that one. This is the one insight that I came to last week and man, oh man, it has been so liberating. Not just for your romantic relationships, but relationships with other people and kids etc. I got so concerned about the future and the rat-race that I wasn't being present. Just that one change has improved my perspective by mountains.

Life does get better indeed! Keep moving forward and be healthy and happy.

[180Man]

What were the behaviors you were engaging in that became unattractive?

She had major career changes immediately ahead of her, including a move to Hawaii. I had major career changes ahead of me with a lot of uncertainty. She is not a great communicator, so rather than tell me we were going to work things out, I had what I perceived to be uncertainty from her and I went into a spiral worrying about stuff that I have no control over. Worrying about careers, worrying about long-distance, worrying about losing someone great, worrying about repeating the same process that led to my divorce. I finally did get certainty from her, but only after I told her I felt like she didn't care about the future. She was extremely upset that I would think she didn't, told me her actions proved that she did, and she assumed we would just figure it out. After that argument, I don't think she really forgave me. She cooled slowly and started to shut down on me over the next month or so until she found an excuse to break up: "I think you need more communication than I'm able to give and I feel broken and better off alone."

I think she's scared. She conjured up the worst case scenario in her head and then assumed that's where we were headed. No attempt to work on it with me, she just quit. I waited a week and a half, thought long and hard about what happened. Wrote her a letter, told her how much she meant to me, told her I realized where I had gone wrong, pointed out all of the mistakes I made, owned it, and told her how I would fix it going forward. She sat on it for a couple days and then texted me saying it was a good letter, I made some good points, but she thought I took too much ownership of some issues and that she stood by the breakup. I decided this back and forth was stupid, I showed up at her door with the intent to passionately tell her how much she meant to me. She softened at different moments, but ultimately her guard was up and her mind was not to be changed.

I saw her at work the following week a couple times. We talked about work, made jokes, things were nice. Saw her the week after that, she stayed at a work function with me to play volleyball, then walked back down the beach with me to our cars. We talked then too, not about anything serious, but about weekend plans, her sister, my dog, that sort of stuff.

Couple days later I decide to send her a very friendly invitation to hang out once in a while before she moves. I was very clear there would be no awkwardness, no expectations, just hanging out now and then. Clearly I crossed some sort of boundary for her because she never replied and now refuses to even look at me at work.

She's an extreme introvert, so even though I see confliction within her, I think she would prefer to pretend it never happened and hope it all goes away. I don't know how to reach her at this point, anything I do will just look like desperation. I'm not desperate, I'm not texting and calling her all the time. I'm actually pretty happy with myself about how well I've handled it -- at least the parts she has seen. When I'm home by myself I feel like dirt, but at least I have not come across as clingy. So...I've decided to ignore her for now. Give it a month and see how I feel about it. You can't force someone to want to be with you. And if she can't communicate with me, how is that going to work? If the divorce taught me anything, it taught me to work more on communication. This girl has not been through anything like that, so I don't think she has ever really been forced to self-examine and rebuild to the level that perhaps a lot of people like us have. Not to say that everyone who gets divorced is magically a great communicator, not by any means, but for those people who put the work in on themselves, they should come out with at least some new and improved tools.

So, I'm sad...we had a great thing...but I've been through much worse. The situation is confusing at best. We still haven't given eachother keys and stuff back. We are still friends on social media. I'm not sure what to do about any of that. At the end of the day, if she comes around, great. If not, I'll find someone who wants to put in the effort.

[Maika]

I think you answered your own question. However, I think you phrasing that she didn't care about the future escalated the situation rather than you approaching it with having a honest conversation about the relationship and where it was going considering the circumstances. You might want to improve that yourself and be more direct. How you approached it was judgmental.

But, if she can't communicate, then it's not going to work out. Introversion is not an excuse. I heard something recently that made perfect sense and is something I want to modulate in my life - the quality of any relationship is based on the ability to have uncomfortable conversations.

Good luck man!

[180Man]

Yes, I think you're right. I could have handled it better. It was judgmental. I don't blame her introversion, there's nothing wrong with introverts. I fell in love with one, after all. I'm just aware of her communication style and ability to clam up with difficult situations.

That's a great quote! I have often thought that but was never able to put into such concise wording.

If I knew how to break through to her I would. Either I ignore her altogether and give her time/space...or I ignore her all together and give her time/space and at some point down the road...weeks or months...I consider initiating some very light and basic conversation. My last text to her was asking to go out and do something and in hindsight that was way too much. I should have just said "hey, had a great time playing volleyball with you today! have a great weekend!" and then gone from there very, very slowly.

I'm all about learning from my mistakes, I just wish the consequences weren't often so dire for me.

[Jim1234]

180man, nice to hear from you. I've often wondered how things worked out for you. I'm really glad you have moved on, and wish you the best.

[Maika]

I don't think there is anything wrong with introversion. I have some introvert tendencies. What I find annoying in relationships is that introversion is used an excuse for poor communication. I think the issue here is most likely anxiety and conflict avoidance tendencies rather than introversion. If she can't figure that out and be a better communicator, to at least a person she wants to cultivate intimacy with, it's going to end badly.

Yeh take it slowly. And if she doesn't bite after a few messages, completely let go and move forward with your life. If she wants back in, let her come to you and do the work. Live your life and be happy for yourself.

[180Man]

Jim,

Good to hear from you. Yeah, professionally things have been good. Probably get out of the military in a year or so and go fly for the airlines. Then I'll be setup for divorce #2! Hah, I'm just kidding! Personally, things have been up and down as you can see, but on the whole I have moved forward. I don't think about my ex all of the time. I don't wonder what she's doing. I don't try to reach out to her. I've also somewhat started to realize that I'm more attractive than I previously thought. It's kind of a weird feeling. I went to college at a school with a very high percentage of male students, so I think I may have internalized that to be a reflection on myself. I dated, but still felt behind the curve. Met my ex shortly after joining the military and that was that. Only recently have I started to realized that I'm not a completely ugly bum. It's kind of weird. Not that I'm some Brad Pitt or something, but...you know what I'm saying.

I've also realized that I'm very vulnerable and need to be very careful with who I choose to put my energy into. And I don't mean I'm vulnerable because of the divorce -- yes, there is that facet, too -- but I think as far as personalities go, I'm much more willing to work things out than others might be. To a fault. To the point that it's hard for me to recognize when I'm in a situation which may not really be the best for me. My current situation may or may not be a good indicator of that...I'm not sure!

How have you been doing??

Maika,

I think you're correct, it's anxiety and conflict avoidance. My friend just dropped a bomb on me saying I need to really think about her saying "I feel broken, I feel better off alone." Women can say some crazy stuff during a breakup, but I honestly have no reason to not believe her. If i take her at face value....she may be dealing with some serious stuff. All this time I had been focusing on me and what I did wrong...sure I have screwed up here and there, but....maybe there's more to this. I still haven't fully processed this thought, so I definitely need to revisit everything and see if there's any legitimacy to this or if it's just going down a rabbit hole.

But yeah, I agree. Take it slowly. I'm thinking of maybe breaking the ice by stopping by and kind of apologizing for the awkwardness my text has caused. Keep it light and simple and not linger...but just clear the air and go from there. Sigh...people are confusing as sh!t sometimes.

[Jim1234]

180, I've pretty much been in limbo the whole time but I've started pushing the D forward lately. Right now we have what I expect to be our last mediation session scheduled for the 31st. I expect we'll have a settlement agreement come out of the session.

I've had some weird experiences over the last two years because we still get along very well, see each other often because we still have the same group of friends... I won't take over your thread reiterating it all. I think I'm having a hard time detaching because of all the casual contact we still have.

You mentioned a mostly male college... was that the Colorado School for Boys (USAFA) or ERAU? As far as the airlines, and getting out of the military, just remember, the person you are junior to when you get hired will be senior to you FOREVER. Get on that seniority list ASAP.

As far as the woman you are talking about.... does your intention to "stop by and kind of apologize" seem like pursuit to you? To me, it seems like she said, "I need some space," literally and figuratively, and you're chasing her.